Rio Flt 800 fumes

[luvthe9]

Flight 800 on Aug. 07, 2011 diverted to Brasilia because Rio weather had deteriorated and had gone to zero zero Their alternate was Sao Paulo and Belo Horizonte, but because of congestion at their planned alternate, they were directed by ATC to land at Brasilia.

Once on the ground, the aircraft was directed to a hard stand along with other diverted aircraft. The APU was started and both engines were shut down. Up until then, the flight had been normal except for the diversion.

Several minutes later, a very dense and opaque acrid smoke of burnt chemical began to fill the aircraft. The F/A's informed the Captain and the APU bleeds were shut off. Moments later the APU auto shutdown and the plane went dark.

The plane now had no power or air and the doors had to be open to help remove the smoke. The airport dispatched emergency vehicles when the saw smoke from the APU and the doors open with smoke coming from the plane.

For 2+35 hrs, the aircraft sat on the active taxiway with no power, no air and no working lavs. The temperature rose to 97 degrees inside the plane and several passengers tried to incite the other passengers to mutiny and accused the crew of lying to them. The passengers began to rebel at being left inside the plane. In the meantime, the crew was trying to get help from the airport but had no help from anyone.

Eventually an air-cart for air conditioning was brought but the fumes began to flow again. Again and again the Captain asked for busses and an air stair for the passengers but was refused. The crew made many announcements with the megaphone to keep the passengers informed. Finally as things began to get out of control and the passengers were sinking into anarchy, the crew decided to initiate an emergency evacuation on the taxiway and the airport was informed they would do so in 60 seconds if they did not receive help. At that point, a Delta Tech Ops technician got the TAM ground crew to tow the aircraft to a gate.

Some passengers tied to incite other passengers to mutiny during the ordeal. Other passengers were sick and vomiting and at least one was admitted to a hospital for treatment.

The crew ferried the flight back to CLT the following day.

The people the crew singled out as doing an above and beyond was the DAL Tech Rep and the TAM people. The crew from what I read had done a magnificent job under extreme conditions.

By the way, had the crew attempted a CAT II landing in Rio, the APU would have been started and the fumes would have been in the cabin during the flight.

I can't begin to do justice to the report that Captain , Pilot , IRO and CSD wrote or the horror they and their F/A's found themselves in. I hope at some time their full report can be released. But hey, we don't have a safety problem here at US Airways

 

[Reed Richards]

That is a real horror story, and I actually believe every word. I cannot imagine being trapped like that. Being an adult I think I might be rational in that situation. Had my young kids been with me all bets are off.

But let us be serious. We all know this was really mass hysteria and a crew only acting via a work action. (note..sarcasm)

US Airways has a failed safety culture. It is a shame the honorable path taken to correct that has been hijacked by USAPA upper leadership and a few malcontents who think tweets, emails, and phone calls cannot be traced.

Tomorrow will probably be a sad, sad day for our airline. Unknown territory with failed leadership on both sides, Management and Union.

RR

 

[Art at ISP]

Is something happening tomorrow, Reed???

This is an almost unbelievable story....I have heard of the fumes issue before, but mostly on the 190's....was this the Airbus or the 767?

Kudos to the DL and TAM folks for helping out in what must have been an unbearable situation.

While I agree that this was a frustrating situation for ALL involved, I also have to commend the decision of the captain to threaten to evacuate the aircraft--which got things going...however I cannot condone the condition of passengers who were inciting anarchy......I wonder how many injuries could have occurred in the event they prevailed....but then again, I don't know how I would have reacted in a similar situation...and it appears the US crew did an admirable job under the circumstances...and were probably as frustrated if not more so than the passengers.....

Can't wait to read the DOT/NTSB report on this incident.....

At least everyone is safe.....

 

[Reed Richards]

Is something happening tomorrow, Reed???

This is an almost unbelievable story....I have heard of the fumes issue before, but mostly on the 190's....was this the Airbus or the 767?

Kudos to the DL and TAM folks for helping out in what must have been an unbearable situation.

While I agree that this was a frustrating situation for ALL involved, I also have to commend the decision of the captain to threaten to evacuate the aircraft--which got things going...however I cannot condone the condition of passengers who were inciting anarchy......I wonder how many injuries could have occurred in the event they prevailed....but then again, I don't know how I would have reacted in a similar situation...and it appears the US crew did an admirable job under the circumstances...and were probably as frustrated if not more so than the passengers.....

Can't wait to read the DOT/NTSB report on this incident.....

At least everyone is safe.....

Art, our Union is before a Federal Judge tomorrow in Charlotte answering charges as to a supposed "work slowdown." Not going to be a pretty day for Union or Company, but I think the track to civility might be regained if cooler heads prevail. We shall see.

The travelling public should pay little attention to this Kabuki Theater....safe operations are the norm for even our few malcontents. Even the Company is truly concerned about safety, but they are indeed failing to participate in a process that might take our airline to an even safer place. Nothing wrong with being a little bit safer. Union and Company politics and a general frustration by all with a lack of a joint contract are not helping that process.

RR

 

[Art at ISP]

Reed,

Thank you for your thoughtful and informative post. I agree completely with you with regard to the safety and labor situations....

I remain concerned about safety, but I do believe US to be as safe as the others, however, some of the incidents like this one do give pause .... that said, my colleagues and I are trying to steer clear of the labor side of it, except as it affects customers, for whom we advocate...

I do hope that cooler heads can prevail, and that the energy wasted in anger and infighting can be re-channeled to solving the problems at hand....

My best to you all...

 

[jcw]

come on

there was a mechanical breakdown - Tempe did not dispatch an electronic message to the aircraft to have the APU breakdown - Tempe did not tell the authorities to hold the passengers and crew hostage on the plane

The union mechanics that maintain the fleet did not say hey let's create a situation for the APU to fail when the plane diverts in Brazil

You are just spinning things to make every situation look like safety is the last priority.

I think this is across the line.

Labor disagreements on both sides should not use safety as a weapon of mass disstruction.

Both sides are wrong on the pilot dispute and just like congress they have to sit at a table and both sides have to give. In this case both sides have very hard positions and won't move. So both sides are wrong and neither side is right.

 

[flyin2low]

come on

there was a mechanical breakdown - Tempe did not dispatch an electronic message to the aircraft to have the APU breakdown - Tempe did not tell the authorities to hold the passengers and crew hostage on the plane

The union mechanics that maintain the fleet did not say hey let's create a situation for the APU to fail when the plane diverts in Brazil

You are just spinning things to make every situation look like safety is the last priority.

I think this is across the line..

I agree.

My favorite quote from ATC is "How is taxiing across an active runway at a snails pace safe?" as a 737 held up departing traffic at CLT one day

 

[Onestep2flt]

come on

there was a mechanical breakdown - Tempe did not dispatch an electronic message to the aircraft to have the APU breakdown - Tempe did not tell the authorities to hold the passengers and crew hostage on the plane

The union mechanics that maintain the fleet did not say hey let's create a situation for the APU to fail when the plane diverts in Brazil

You are just spinning things to make every situation look like safety is the last priority.

I think this is across the line.

Labor disagreements on both sides should not use safety as a weapon of mass disstruction.

Both sides are wrong on the pilot dispute and just like congress they have to sit at a table and both sides have to give. In this case both sides have very hard positions and won't move. So both sides are wrong and neither side is right.

While I will agree with most of what you are saying, it does go beyond a labor argument. The smoke related incidences seem to be on the rise and should be a concern to all. There is real evidence with real people sick including pilots with neurological issues from what we are lead to believe. While I do not think it is helpful to be using as some bargaining chip, I certainly believe that some of the issues that have come to the surface warrant further investigation.

Stepping into the labor issue for a minute. If I were the head of the pilot union and my true motive were about safety why not get the mechanics on your side and come up with specific issues that need addressed. Mechanics see the deficiencies better than anybody. They could use it as an opportunity to educate the public about things like the outsourcing facilities that the airlines use and why we should take notice. The seemingly higher than usual smoke/fumes issue is a good example. If these are true events these then are true safety issues.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

come on

Tempe did not dispatch an electronic message to the aircraft to have the APU breakdown -
You are just spinning things to make every situation look like safety is the last priority.
I think this is across the line.
Labor disagreements on both sides should not use safety as a weapon of mass disstruction.
So both sides are wrong and neither side is right.

Although I do agree with what your trying to say - but not all of it :

No. Tempe didn't dispatch an electronic message having the APU malfunction - but they did dispatch three management pilots and mechanics to GIG - just in case the original crew balked over safety concerns. Why? Union work action?
Aircraft coming back from San Salvador (or whatever third world maintenance facility "du jour" we are using) are coming back with more issues than ever before in the history of this airline. And paperwork mysteriously disappears regarding these issues. Why is that acceptable? It's cheaper - they don't have to pay employees or benefits. Their lies the problem - the economic incentive.

The company is more than willing to out source the MTC to these third world MROs and accept "lesser quality" (which of course they will deny) but there is an economic incentive. US Airways is also not the only airline guilty of outsourcing maintenance, nor or they they the only carrier that is "now" experiencing major maintenance and issues and incidents. History proves these bean counter's decisions will come back and bite the airlines in the APU compartment - but you can't tell that to a 30/40 year old corporate hipsters know-it-all.....only personal experience can.

Labor disagreements on both sides should not use SAFETY "as a weapon of mass destruction" but then again neither should shoddily repaired wide body aircraft.

That still doesn't change the fact US is experiencing some pretty major issues regarding outsourced maintenance. Its also no secret the that 75E and 767 fleet are getting a little long in the tooth - quality periodic maintenance is critical to upkeep the grueling schedule this aircraft endure everyday. A station manager (very familiar with recent events) was quoted as saying US Airways has paid out over a quarter of a million dollars in "malicious negligence" suits just in the past few months over these issues. In the company's myopic view (much like RES migration) that this dimwitted idea was supposed to save the company money, but now in reality costs substantially more than could ever be imagined. In both of the instances - the only individuals that were responsible for cleaning up the mess were the line employees. No one that actually made the decisions was ever held culpable and employees are being asked to pick up the tab once again.

Have you ever been trapped in a aircraft breathing toxic fumes?
I have and trust me it's no picnic and it's as real as it's gets when you can't breath. We even had a US crew member die last month because of exposure to them.

I too used to think this whole "toxic fume" issue was a "much-a-do-about-nothing" subject that somehow the union had dreamed up until it happened to me. US has been flying around for decades without anything like this happening and in such epidemic proportions. So why is it happening now? If you believe all the (white washed) reports US Airways reports to the FAA, US is only experiencing a little over 2 percent of the fleet wide events. Really, only two percent? Imagine what the cost (in this case LOSS) is on just this one flight - then extrapolate that fleet wide - then think of the possible litigation exposure and costs.

If you ever have this happen to you, or a loved one you might feel entirely different about this subject. Willing to save the company a few bucks then, or still bash the union?
There is a safety culture problem present today at this airline - and it is not an alleged work action.

 

[jimntx]

A station manager (very familiar with recent events) was quoted as saying US Airways has paid out over a quarter of a million dollars in "malicious negligence" suits just in the past few months over these issues.

As someone who doesn't have a dog in this particular hunt, I have to ask...To whom are these payments being made? The Federal government does not file "malicious negligence" suits against an airline. They simply fine you. And, it isn't done in secret. There are no side agreements like "we'll pay the fine, but you musn't tell the public anything about this." Just ask American Eagle. The FAA just publicly announced that they are proposing to fine AE a lot of money for misreporting weight and balance figures.

I've never heard of any case (again...it could NOT be done in secret) of a member of the flying public filing "malicious negligence" suits against an airline for faulty maintenance.

We even had a US crew member die last month because of exposure to them.

I would have to see something like name, location, crew position on this one first. Given the toxic atmosphere (no pun intended) that exists at your airline between management and employees, do you really expect anyone to believe that such an event could occur and not be posted here before the body arrived at the funeral home?

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

As someone who doesn't have a dog in this particular hunt, I have to ask...To whom are these payments being made? The Federal government does not file "malicious negligence" suits against an airline. They simply fine you. And, it isn't done in secret. There are no side agreements like "we'll pay the fine, but you musn't tell the public anything about this." Just ask American Eagle. The FAA just publicly announced that they are proposing to fine AE a lot of money for misreporting weight and balance figures.

I've never heard of any case (again...it could NOT be done in secret) of a member of the flying public filing "malicious negligence" suits against an airline for faulty maintenance

I would have to see something like name, location, crew position on this one first. Given the toxic atmosphere (no pun intended) that exists at your airline between management and employees, do you really expect anyone to believe that such an event could occur and not be posted here before the body arrived at the funeral home?

I do have a "dog in this hunt", but when did I ever say the suits against the airline were for faulty maintenance?
You'll also never get names because their confidential and signed non-disclosure agreements not to mention in another country - But that doesn't change the fact that US settled. Call legal or DP and ask them directly - I am sure they will be more than happy to discuss the matter with you - I would love to hear that conversation.

Call and ask your union (CIRP or EAP) or manager if you need confirmation. They are not going to release the name because of HIPPA and family confidentiality concerns - it also doesn't change the fact it still happened. The exposure of neurotoxins to the body have long term detrimental effect and in this case (although this individuals had other issues going on) resulted in death. That has absolutely nothing to do with management or labor. It's just a fact.

Your also going to see some more fines being handed down to the airlines over "white washed" reports.....I am not a betting man - but I would in this case.

 

[autofixer]

I suspect the management pilots and mechanics were dispatched to perform maint. and the subsequent test flight required. Line pilots do not perform test flights, generally. But never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.

 

[ManDachine]

I agree.

My favorite quote from ATC is "How is taxiing across an active runway at a snails pace safe?" as a 737 held up departing traffic at CLT one day

ATC doesnt have to taxi the airplane around. For at least 15 years, when crossing runway 23 from spot 7 you have to do a zig zag to miss the huge divet in the lip of the runway. The same when taxiing to 36C. We are ones sitting over the nose wheel not them. When your in a lot that has speed bumps don't you slow down to go over them?

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

But never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.

Kind of hard to repair and test fly a sick aircraft in BSB all the way from GIG. Guess that is why the original crew ferried the aircraft home.
But your right, never let the facts get in the way of a good brain washing.

 

[autofixer]

Kind of hard to repair and test fly a sick aircraft in BSB all the way from GIG. Guess that is why the original crew ferried the aircraft home.
But your right, never let the facts get in the way of a good brain washing.

The point was: IT IS AN 10 HOUR FLIGHT TO RIO. THEY DID SEND THE MANAGEMENT PILOTS TO RIO, I SEE IT IN CATCREW (on flight 800 on the 8th). I guess the company did not realize that the original crew was ferrying the plane back to CLT. Whatever.