Schnurman: Union trouble at American Airlines? Say it ain’t so

[USA320Pilot]

Schnurman: Union trouble at American Airlines? Say it ain’t so
 
See story: http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists/mitchell-schnurman/20141117-schnurman-union-trouble-at-american-airlines-say-it-aint-so.ece

 

[USA320Pilot]

Is American Airlines prepared to drop its ‘scope’ request to pilots?
 
See story: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/11/is-american-airlines-prepared-to-drop-its-scope-request.html/

 

[iluvaa]

Article is weak on all the facts

 

[dfw gen]

this clown schnurman is ALWAYS  short of facts and research dont waste your time reading his articles.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

From the article:
In 2010, the Transport Workers Union negotiated a contract with lump-sum bonuses and pay raises. Two-thirds of union leaders supported it, and the mechanics rejected the deal by almost 2-to-1
 
So we were stupid to reject lump sum "bonuses"?  We were offered $3000 and we were supposed to give up our prefunded retirement insurance.  Sorry but retirement insurance was worth lots more than $3000.  Evidently most of the voters agreed almost 2-1.  

 

[Realityck]

From the article:
In 2010, the Transport Workers Union negotiated a contract with lump-sum bonuses and pay raises. Two-thirds of union leaders supported it, and the mechanics rejected the deal by almost 2-to-1
 
So we were stupid to reject lump sum "bonuses"?  We were offered $3000 and we were supposed to give up our prefunded retirement insurance.  Sorry but retirement insurance was worth lots more than $3000.  Evidently most of the voters agreed almost 2-1.  

 
 
 
So, following the anti-2010 TWU contract chant of “just keep saying no” and “AA will never file for Bankruptcy” advocates got you what? It looks like the APFA crystal ball gazers have been listening to the same type of self-deceptive strategists as we have in our ranks. But wait, they have another plan, and this one will work!  B--- S---.      

 

[iluvaa]

How does one walk without a spine for so long.

 

[Vortilon]

 
 
 
So, following the anti-2010 TWU contract chant of “just keep saying no” and “AA will never file for Bankruptcy” advocates got you what? It looks like the APFA crystal ball gazers have been listening to the same type of self-deceptive strategists as we have in our ranks. But wait, they have another plan, and this one will work!  B--- S---.      

 
The real reality of the situation is - the decision to vote down that turd TA you speak of, was made by individuals.  There was no group think - collective type - one voice speaks for all (Jim Little) coalition.  Plain and simple, it was AMTs looking at the TA for what it was - a POS!  The vast majority of line AMTs at AA see the TWU for what it is, a business looking out for itself at the expense of (in our case) the pay and benefits for AMTs.  Only somebody in complete denial, an idiot, or in your case - a TWU zealot would deny that.  I will say this though, you are loyal to your masters.  Sorta like the SS was to Hitler,  I gotta give you credit for that.

 

[bigjets]

From the article:[/size]
In 2010, the Transport Workers Union negotiated a contract with lump-sum bonuses and pay raises. Two-thirds of union leaders supported it, and the mechanics rejected the deal by almost 2-to-1[/size]
 
So we were stupid to reject lump sum "bonuses"?  We were offered $3000 and we were supposed to give up our prefunded retirement insurance.  Sorry but retirement insurance was worth lots more than $3000.  Evidently most of the voters agreed almost 2-1.  

You guys vote down the 2010 TA that gives OH $3000, gives line mech $4 an hour raise and takes away retiree medical for all under 50.

But you vote in, no pay raise, lose pension, lose retiree medical for ALL, closes AFW, makes OH work weekends, farm out a good amount of OH, voting NO , what else could you have lost.

We gave back more then most, and yet the APFA got more equity per FA along with a 9.9% 401k contribution, and yet the twu is still the prefered Union. If all OH goes to pit, I wouldn't lose to much sleep over it.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
 
 
So, following the anti-2010 TWU contract chant of “just keep saying no” and “AA will never file for Bankruptcy” advocates got you what? It looks like the APFA crystal ball gazers have been listening to the same type of self-deceptive strategists as we have in our ranks. But wait, they have another plan, and this one will work!  B--- S---.      

Logic would say that since it was turned down by almost a 2 to 1 margin and even failed in Tulsa with Local 514 pushing a yes vote, it was considered a bad deal by most of the AMTs.  But there are always those who disagree.  What we did gain was no lump sum "Raise".  We did have a TA pass by 48 votes that was pretty lousy but at least it had percentage raises and not a lump sum payment.  But if you like lump sum payments instead of percentage raises then more power to you.  I happen to think this is not the way to go.  I also refused to fall for a BK threat again.  Yeah they did end up filing but with over $4 Billion in the bank.  I choose to not vote yes on any old thing AA is willing to offer.  

 

[OldGuy@AA]

You guys vote down the 2010 TA that gives OH $3000, gives line mech $4 an hour raise and takes away retiree medical for all under 50.

But you vote in, no pay raise, lose pension, lose retiree medical for ALL, closes AFW, makes OH work weekends, farm out a good amount of OH, voting NO , what else could you have lost.

We gave back more then most, and yet the APFA got more equity per FA along with a 9.9% 401k contribution, and yet the twu is still the prefered Union. If all OH goes to pit, I wouldn't lose to much sleep over it.

I did not vote for that one either.  I know full well what we lost and what the FAs got.  The question is why did the TWU even bring back crap like they did when they saw what the FAs got?  Guess what?  I'll vote no again when the TWU or the alliance brings back a TA that does not pay us what the industry standard is.  Will I be out voted again?  Maybe but I would like to hope that enough greedy "I got mine" people left with the buyout that the rest of us can actually fight the company and the union and get what we deserve.  No lump sum payments or it's an automatic no.  Also since the TWU and IAM are causing us to delay negotiations there better be retro pay or that will be a no also.  Face it, there are some of us who are not going to bend over anymore.

 

[topDawg]

You guys vote down the 2010 TA that gives OH $3000, gives line mech $4 an hour raise and takes away retiree medical for all under 50.

But you vote in, no pay raise, lose pension, lose retiree medical for ALL, closes AFW, makes OH work weekends, farm out a good amount of OH, voting NO , what else could you have lost.

We gave back more then most, and yet the APFA got more equity per FA along with a 9.9% 401k contribution, and yet the twu is still the prefered Union. If all OH goes to pit, I wouldn't lose to much sleep over it.

question, What was going to stop AA from getting this in BK even if the 2010 TA would have been voted in?
 
Just curious. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

topDawg - I was told by the local pres that since I was over 50 I would keep my retiree medical (You'll get yours).  I told him that in the first place it wasn't fair for some to get it and some not and in the second place, the retiree medical for over 50 would have been given away at the earliest opportunity so we would never get to use it.  But there was much more that made this TA a real POS.  Gladly the majority saw it and shot it down.