Seeking Alpha: United, Up in the Air or Set to Crash?

[eolesen]

Good read on how United is alienating HVC's with their pricing and FQTV strategies...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2209723-united-continental-holdings-up-in-the-air-or-set-to-crash

Who made the decision not to put wifi or powerports on their 739's?...

 

[WorldTraveler]

said it was a seat vendor issue.... not sure why the vendor couldn't get it right and why someone at UA didn't realize this was coming and find an alternative.

There are several interesting points from the article and the trajectory that UA is on that are worth noting:

1. There is no doubt that AA, DL, and WN can all attribute some of its present success to UA which is an enormous airline. Even if only 2% of UA's revenues are divided among the other large airlines, the gain is in the hundreds of millions of dollars, easily enough to make a major difference.

2. Labor is and has been the weak link in airline mergers and UA has shown us precisely why investors have long been afraid of airline mergers. DL and WN in reality both won the approval of their combined workforce both because of size of DL and WN relative to their merger partners and by throwing enough money at the employees to make it work. It remains to be seen if AA can or will do the same thing.

3. UA's hubs are almost all in highly competitive markets; IAH is one of the few where local travelers do not have plenty of other options. It will be far, far harder for UA to win back the passengers it loses even if it turns things around because those passengers have other options.

4. Other carriers are aggressively adding capacity which makes it possible for them to improve their financial performance including thru cost control while UA has to pull capacity which further adds to their cost problem. It is a vicious cycle which is very hard to break.

5. Other carriers will take advantage of UA's weakness to grow where those other carriers can gain a long term benefit. It is highly possible that, short of a major UA turnaround, the remaining carriers will have gained enough of an advantage relative to UA that there is little long-term value left for UA because there are now 2 other global US carriers that have neutralized all of UA's advantages while UA is at a disadvantage in certain areas to both of those carriers. WN even without being global can many of the same advantages in the markets where it competes which will likely include a growing part of UA's lucrative Houston-Latin America system.

these are just from the competitive/strategic dimension but this is truly a moment in which UA needs to think long and hard about what it is going to do to turn things around and, even if a certain plan is found now, there is no assurance that it will turn things around before competitors can take a major piece of UA's hide.

all the best to UA's people, many of whom are very frustrated with what they see happening to their company and yet who seem powerless to right the ship.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Thanks for writing a summary that is almost longer than the article. Most of us would not have the ability to understand any of it without your regurgitation.

When can we expect you to start posting links to your articles from national publications?

To answer E's question, you could have said, "I don't know"?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Or you could just admit that there are people who actually think or can engage in intellectual conversation and you choose not to be one of them.

I wish UA's people well but there will be a whole lot more articles about what's wrong with them asking when it will all hit bottom.

They have ridden the overall strong performance of the airline industry while many investors have patiently waited.

There are increasing numbers of them who are beginning to ask why they should be treated as well as they are and why they are the exception.

As long as this board serves as more than just a place for the promotion of union activity (might as well do it here since it isn't working in real life - you didn't miss the part about the lack of labor integration as being part of the problem?), then a discussion of what is going on with UA or any other business related issue is fair game - whether you are capable of contributing anything to the conversation or not.

 

[Kev3188]

Or you could just admit that there are people who actually think or can engage in intellectual conversation and you choose not to be one of them.

Or you could just learn to be economical with your writing...

 

[WorldTraveler]

E started a perfectly good discussion. There are a number of valid discussion points that could be made about the article and the UA situation by those who choose to focus on the topic; sadly, you have chosen to nitpick around the edges instead of deal with the topic.

Neither you or Q have ever shown much ability to contribute to business discussions in the industry.

There is one topic which you have been given full autonomy to discuss and full support to do so; take it and run with it.

And when you or your little friend Q have something to say about the topic which E teed up, let us know.

 

[eolesen]

Do you always have to talk down to people?...

Neither you or Q have ever shown much ability to contribute to business discussions in the industry.

There is one topic which you have been given full autonomy to discuss and full support to do so; take it and run with it.

And when you or your little friend Q have something to say about the topic which E teed up, let us know.

This is exactly why you're seen as forum cancer.

You could have chosen to ignore the baiting, but instead decided to escalate it into a dissertation on your superiority.

In one fell swoop, you've not only talked down to both Kev and Glenn, but you've also decreed that somehow you're the arbiter of what people are and aren't allowed "full autonomy" to discuss...

Discussion over.

 

[WorldTraveler]

they got exactly what they dished out.

I'm not sure why that is so hard for any of you to figure out that you get what you sow.

I am not sure what planet you live on but when you foster an attitude of focusing on looking for an opportunity to negate the person instead of discussing the topic, you shouldn't be surprised when you and the topic end up as scraps on the cutting room floor.

So do you have anything else you would like to add to the topic you started other than worrying about AVOD?

 

[700UW]

Pompous rear end.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yeah you used that before too. Do you feel better and more importantly have you added anything to the discussion?

Despite having more than twice the number of posts of any other user, all you really contribute is pushing the IAM's agenda.

Perhaps you find someone pompous because they call you out for your inability to stay on track with the discussion.

In this case, we are talking about UA's situation and growing investment community sentiment that UA might not track with the rest of the industry.

Think you can try and contribute something even remotely connected with the topic?

 

[700UW]

How about hypocrite too?
 
You are describing yourself to a "T" in the above post.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'll take that to mean you are good at mud throwing and IAM pushing but not so much with critical thinking skills.
The topic is UA.

track with us. Contrary to what E wants to believe, there has been nothing posted here that stops anyone from contributing IF they are willing to put down their "shoot him down at any cost" missiles.

BTW, in ten years, I have accumulated less than half of the posts that you have.

If you had stopped posting yesterday, I wouldn't catch up to you for about 15 years... and if you stopped posting, I would have a whole less to reply to.

 

[eolesen]

The topic is UA, not the other posters.

If you can't post something on-topic, don't post at all.

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh... that is exactly what I have said in EVERY post I have said on this topic.

I didn't turn the conversation into a commentary about what other posts or now the do it.

But I'm sure now going to sit by silently when someone decides to launch a grenade.

I responded to a topic you started, is relevant, and about which you and I are the only two that have posted anything even remotely related to the topic.

It would be nice to carry on... esp. since UA's situation does provide the real potential for another major restructuring of the industry.

 

[700UW]

Or you could just admit that there are people who actually think or can engage in intellectual conversation and you choose not to be one of them.

I wish UA's people well but there will be a whole lot more articles about what's wrong with them asking when it will all hit bottom.

They have ridden the overall strong performance of the airline industry while many investors have patiently waited.

There are increasing numbers of them who are beginning to ask why they should be treated as well as they are and why they are the exception.

As long as this board serves as more than just a place for the promotion of union activity (might as well do it here since it isn't working in real life - you didn't miss the part about the lack of labor integration as being part of the problem?), then a discussion of what is going on with UA or any other business related issue is fair game - whether you are capable of contributing anything to the conversation or not.

 
 

E started a perfectly good discussion. There are a number of valid discussion points that could be made about the article and the UA situation by those who choose to focus on the topic; sadly, you have chosen to nitpick around the edges instead of deal with the topic.

Neither you or Q have ever shown much ability to contribute to business discussions in the industry.

There is one topic which you have been given full autonomy to discuss and full support to do so; take it and run with it.

And when you or your little friend Q have something to say about the topic which E teed up, let us know.

 
 

they got exactly what they dished out.

I'm not sure why that is so hard for any of you to figure out that you get what you sow.

I am not sure what planet you live on but when you foster an attitude of focusing on looking for an opportunity to negate the person instead of discussing the topic, you shouldn't be surprised when you and the topic end up as scraps on the cutting room floor.

So do you have anything else you would like to add to the topic you started other than worrying about AVOD?

 
 

yeah you used that before too. Do you feel better and more importantly have you added anything to the discussion?

Despite having more than twice the number of posts of any other user, all you really contribute is pushing the IAM's agenda.

Perhaps you find someone pompous because they call you out for your inability to stay on track with the discussion.

In this case, we are talking about UA's situation and growing investment community sentiment that UA might not track with the rest of the industry.

Think you can try and contribute something even remotely connected with the topic?

 
 

I'll take that to mean you are good at mud throwing and IAM pushing but not so much with critical thinking skills.
The topic is UA.

track with us. Contrary to what E wants to believe, there has been nothing posted here that stops anyone from contributing IF they are willing to put down their "shoot him down at any cost" missiles.

BTW, in ten years, I have accumulated less than half of the posts that you have.

If you had stopped posting yesterday, I wouldn't catch up to you for about 15 years... and if you stopped posting, I would have a whole less to reply to.