Seniority integration

[bigjets]

To the extent that two or more employees have the same date of entry into the classification, placement on the applicable integrated seniority list as to those employees shall be determined by the date of hire, or if that is also the same, the last digits of their social security number, with the employee with the lower number being assigned a lower seniority number on the list (having higher seniority)

Is LAA intigrating into LUS airline, or is LUS intigrating into LAA seniority list?

Or is everybody, both US and AA, being put into the same seniority breakdown?

Occupational seniority - last 4 of social?

 

[700UW]

There is going to be a new seniority list integrating both PMUS and PMAA.
 
It will be date of hire into the classification.
 
The last four is for a tie breaker if you are both hired on the same day into the same classification.
 

• 
  Transport Workers and Machinist Union to Jointly Represent Ground Workers at the "New" American Airlines
  
  Questions relating to joint announcement
• Mechanic and Related Associated Agreement
• Stores Associated Agreement
• Joint Agreement on Pensions
• Seniority List Integration Agreement

 

[Duke787]

So both will be put into the same list, with the only factors being occupation seniority date then last 4 of social?

Age no longer being a factor?

So on jan first, i hired on with 12 other mechs, I was 40 they were 39 on down, I will be moved to the bottom of the seniority for my new hire class because my last four are 9999?

 

[CMH_GSE]

There is going to be a new seniority list integrating both PMUS and PMAA.
 
It will be date of hire into the classification.
 
The last four is for a tie breaker if you are both hired on the same day into the same classification.
 

• 
  Transport Workers and Machinist Union to Jointly Represent Ground Workers at the "New" American Airlines
  
  
• 413.pdf]Questions relating to joint announcement
• Mechanic and Related Associated Agreement
• Stores Associated Agreement
• Joint Agreement on Pensions
• Seniority List Integration Agreement

[/*]

Since you seem to claim some authority on it, I'll ask you.

I've read everything pertaining to mechanic and related.
I have not seen it addressed on whether the LUS mechanics that moved from aircraft maintenance to ground support will be identified by the date that they moved into ground support since that is a different classification for AA mechanics, ( Title I and Title II).
Or, will they keep their original hire date , even though they no longer perform that work?

This is important as a large number of the LUS ground support mechanics are prior aircraft.
Which date will be used on the seniority list, because there are ground support mechanics for AA that were also prior aircraft maintenance , would they then also use their original date of hire even though they are now Title II and are identified on the list by the date they changed classification?

Maybe you can point me to the language that says how that will happen?
Thanks in advance.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Since you seem to claim some authority on it, I'll ask you.

I've read everything pertaining to mechanic and related.
I have not seen it addressed on whether the LUS mechanics that moved from aircraft maintenance to ground support will be identified by the date that they moved into ground support since that is a different classification for AA mechanics, ( Title I and Title II).
Or, will they keep their original hire date , even though they no longer perform that work?

This is important as a large number of the LUS ground support mechanics are prior aircraft.
Which date will be used on the seniority list, because there are ground support mechanics for AA that were also prior aircraft maintenance , would they then also use their original date of hire even though they are now Title II and are identified on the list by the date they changed classification?

Maybe you can point me to the language that says how that will happen?
Thanks in advance.

CMH_GSE
 
Occupational or as it is called at US Classification are the same thing.
 
At US they have one seniority list, at AA we have a seperate Title 2 list. US does not have this title group.
 
If they merge by this per the Mckaskil-Bond, what ever occupational/classification you are currently working in
we will be the date used during the seniorty intagration/merger. NOT Company HIRE IN DATE. At AA hire in date is for vacation only.
We bid the rest on occupational/clasification. What tye breakers will be used I can't say. I suppose that will be agreed on by the Assoc.
or the Union on the property.
 
As a title 1 mechanics I can't bump a title 2 guy unless during a reduction I have time in that title group.
 
That is some thing the IAM and IBT have the ability to do, since they have only one list.
 
700UW is NOT an athority on this he's not currently employed by the IAM or USAirways. Nor has he ever worked at AA on with in the TWU.
 
ASk your IAM reps or TWU reps see what answers you get. Then report back. Call TWU Local 591 president, or the District Lodge Chair.
 
We will be in the two current CBA's until they become ammedable in 2017, no matter what any one says. AA is not going to deal with us until it has too.
Don't let the IAM tell you any thing different. They can say what they want but it won't happen. Even if we bring in AMFA or the Association gets in we won't get a
JCBA until the time is good for AA to get early negotiations started. Until we get merged were all screwed. This Assocition is going to keep it that way.
Collecting Dues since that is all this Association is about. Thought up by the AFL-CIO to keep money coming in to both unions.
 
Just look at UAL/CAL still not merged, they have the same union, (IBT). Still infighting, and until they get it worked out the company loves it because
nothing is getting done and that means.  
PAY FREEZE

 

[700UW]

What happened at AA or what is happening at CO/UA has nothing I repeat nothing to do with what will happen in JCBA negotiations.
 
Is it too hard for to understand that PMUS is in control especially in Labor Relations.

Why would US insist on starting JCBA negotiations in 30 days?
 
They are already in negotiations with the FAs and they have a strict time limit in their process.
 
You arent working for your Mother's AA anymore, there is a new sheriff in town and that is Doug Parker.
 
So spin it anyway you want, attack me anyway you want, I still have more knowledge and connections than you will ever have.
 
The Title 2 issue will have to be negotiated to be resolved.
 
DOH into the classification is used for seniority. DOH at US is used for vacation accrual and bidding of vacations, Classification seniority is used for bidding shifts, and locations.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

What happened at AA or what is happening at CO/UA has nothing I repeat nothing to do with what will happen in JCBA negotiations.
 
Is it too hard for to understand that PMUS is in control especially in Labor Relations.
Why would US insist on starting JCBA negotiations in 30 days?
 
They are already in negotiations with the FAs and they have a strict time limit in their process.
 
You arent working for your Mother's AA anymore, there is a new sheriff in town and that is Doug Parker.
 
So spin it anyway you want, attack me anyway you want, I still have more knowledge and connections than you will ever have.
 
The Title 2 issue will have to be negotiated to be resolved.
 
DOH into the classification is used for seniority. DOH at US is used for vacation accrual and bidding of vacations, Classification seniority is used for bidding shifts, and locations.

 
700uw
 
You don't work for the IAM or US and have never worked at AA so you know nothing about how AA works.
 
The IAM can say we are going to open negotiations next week doesn't mean AA is going to make it happen.
If it were true then why hasn't the TWU said anything they are a part in this as well? The IAM is NOT running the show.
SO Come down off your high horse you are not being attacked you are just being questioned? You are NOT the know it all you think.
 
I never said I knew it all either, but what happens for the group will get decided by the group not BY you and the IAM.
 
Title 2 will remain as long as the company has those workers, we woun't go to the IAM way of doing things. Sorry.
 
OH and thats NO spin.
 
Your last statement is what I said Read it DA.....

 

[MCI transplant]

Now!------ The fun begins!!!!!

 

[700UW]

Actually the IAM is in charge of the Alliance for the first two years, so yes they will be running the show.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
You dont work for US nor the IAM, so using your own logic, you dont know whats going to happen.
The New AA is run by PMUS, not PMAA.
 
Get use to it.
 
So you are speaking for both PMUS and PMAA mechanic and related now?
 
You dont know whats going to happen and the IAM/US way is more fair than the AA way.
 
Sorry you wont be able to use your stapler.
 
So since you are so sure of what is going to happen, do you know the winning Powerball numbers for the next drawing?

 

[CMH_GSE]

What happened at AA or what is happening at CO/UA has nothing I repeat nothing to do with what will happen in JCBA negotiations.
 
Is it too hard for to understand that PMUS is in control especially in Labor Relations.

Why would US insist on starting JCBA negotiations in 30 days?
 
They are already in negotiations with the FAs and they have a strict time limit in their process.
 
You arent working for your Mother's AA anymore, there is a new sheriff in town and that is Doug Parker.
 
So spin it anyway you want, attack me anyway you want, I still have more knowledge and connections than you will ever have.
 
The Title 2 issue will have to be negotiated to be resolved.
 
DOH into the classification is used for seniority. DOH at US is used for vacation accrual and bidding of vacations, Classification seniority is used for bidding shifts, and locations.

DOH into the "classification" is the key here.
At AA, mechanic is not a classification. There is Title I (aircraft) and there is Title II (ground support/ facilities).

They also have those two classifications at US, they just don't name them as such.
What needs to happen is a list for the "Title II" guys at US needs to be made showing exactly when they each went into that particular classification and THAT would be their date.

Their hire date as aircraft mechanics couldn't possibly be kept if they continue as ground support mechanics.

But then again, with these unions, who knows.

 

[700UW]

There isnt a separate seniority list for GSE nor Plant mtc, they are bid areas, that have qualifications.
 
A mechanic at US is a mechanic, you have bid areas, not separate seniority lists.
 
I worked for US for over 20 years, when you hire on as a mechanic your DOH into the classification is your seniority date for mechanic. So if you hire as an aircraft mechanic then bid to GSE or Plant, you dont get a new seniority date as there is a mechanic classification, not GSE, or Plant, it is a bid area.
 
If you get a premium position you get a date for that, but you retain all your basic seniority.
 
Just because you have a different system at AA than US doesnt mean it US does it the same.
 
So if you hire on as an aircraft mechanic on 1/1/00 and you bid to GSE five years later, you seniority is still 1/1/00, not 1/1/05.
 
That is how its done at PMUS.

 

[MCI transplant]

Actually the IAM is in charge of the Alliance for the first two years, so yes they will be running the show.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
You dont work for US nor the IAM, so using your own logic, you dont know whats going to happen.
The New AA is run by PMUS, not PMAA.
 
Get use to it.
 
So you are speaking for both PMUS and PMAA mechanic and related now?
 
You dont know whats going to happen and the IAM/US way is more fair than the AA way.
 
Sorry you wont be able to use your stapler.
 
So since you are so sure of what is going to happen, do you know the winning Powerball numbers for the next drawing?

I see this is going to work out just fine!!! ------- Oh! by the way, AA/TWU's philosophy is: " I've got mine brother, screw you!"

 

[MetalMover]

Actually the IAM is in charge of the Alliance for the first two years, so yes they will be running the show.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
 
You dont work for US nor the IAM, so using your own logic, you dont know whats going to happen.
The New AA is run by PMUS, not PMAA.
 
Get use to it.
 
So you are speaking for both PMUS and PMAA mechanic and related now?
 
You dont know whats going to happen and the IAM/US way is more fair than the AA way.
 
Sorry you wont be able to use your stapler.
 
So since you are so sure of what is going to happen, do you know the winning Powerball numbers for the next drawing?

Putting the cart before the horse, aren't you?
We still have to vote on the alliance....There's a good chance it will be rejected...If and when that happens, there would logically be an election between IAM/TWU...Given the fact that the TWU represents twice the people than the IAM does, there's a good chance the TWU would win. 
Having said that, I believe the seniorities will be combined by occupational seniority. 
I for one am a staunch NO vote on any alliance. I do not see any fundamental difference between the IAM and the TWU. 

 

[700UW]

Let me just say you might be surprised by what the NMB does.
 
And if there is a vote, you will either be represented by the Alliance or be non-union.

 

[CMH_GSE]

There isnt a separate seniority list for GSE nor Plant mtc, they are bid areas, that have qualifications.
 
A mechanic at US is a mechanic, you have bid areas, not separate seniority lists.
 
I worked for US for over 20 years, when you hire on as a mechanic your DOH into the classification is your seniority date for mechanic. So if you hire as an aircraft mechanic then bid to GSE or Plant, you dont get a new seniority date as there is a mechanic classification, not GSE, or Plant, it is a bid area.
 
If you get a premium position you get a date for that, but you retain all your basic seniority.
 
Just because you have a different system at AA than US doesnt mean it US does it the same.
 
So if you hire on as an aircraft mechanic on 1/1/00 and you bid to GSE five years later, you seniority is still 1/1/00, not 1/1/05.
 
That is how its done at PMUS.

Ok, good explanation.
It would seem, Mr. Little had a bit of an oversight on this issue and I'm trying to be as charitable as I can, but this is indeed going to get interesting.