Shift Bidding

[WingNaPrayer]

Does anyone know, do agents outside of MIA, such as DFW, JFK, ORD, LAX, etc., bid for shifts, or do they bid for gates?

If I understand it correctly, it is just agents working ticket "lift" and not ticket counters, and also covers OCs bidding gates instead of shifts. Anyone have any info about that outside of MIA? Any info would be appreciated if anyone knows about it or how it works.

***

MIA yesterday supposedly closed down a big chunk of their domestic ticket counter/check-in stations and made those agents go out on the floor and teach customers how to use One Stop kiosks instead. Talk about insulting! Forcing an agent to teach the general public to do their job and once the public is trained enough, what will happen to those agents? Something tells me that MIA has most likely been given head-count reduction goals so they need to force more people to the kiosks.

 

[eolesen]

Unless it has changed in the past 24 months....

At DFW, JFK, and ORD, you bid ATO -or- Lift with a one year commitment.

If you're in Lift, you bid three times a year by zone , and not specific gate. OC's also bid by zone.

If you're in ATO, you bid by shift three times a year. At DFW, the various bidlines are also subdivided by terminal & zone.

At LAX, there's just the one ticket counter, and I think they flex some people in/out of TBIT for anything arriving there. I'm pretty sure QF is still a separate bid at LAX, since they're not in Sabre and you have to speak Aussie.


As for what you pasted.... The MIA and JFK ATO's used to have a notorious turnover rate (i.e. 10-20% annually). If there are headcount reductions at MIA, all they have to do is wait a months or two, and attrition will catch up pretty quickly.

The bigger driver here probably isn't the ticket counter staffing, but the ticket counter real estate. It doesn't pay to keep a lot of counter space when you have a high enough percentage of people using either web check-in or kiosks. Of course, if your kiosks crap out like UAL's did on Leap Day (they weren't programmed to recognize 2/29), then you're screwed....

 

[WingNaPrayer]

I didn't realize that MIA had such a high turnover rate. I assume people transfer off counter a lot then.

If your flights were all in one terminal, then I'm betting gate or zone bidding would probably work, but when you are scattered all over an airport, in three or four concourses, then you're going to end up with some pissed off people after every bid since they bid by seniority. Some agents are always going to end up with the lousy gates/zones. It would surprise me, the way AA is spread haphazardly around MIA, that they would try something like gate bidding. Unless they rotate or something, it doesn't seem like a fair system let alone trying to mess with an operation as intricate as MIA. The email I read today basically reads that there are a LOT of agents in ticket "lift" (working the gates) that are extremely upset over this. I realize there will always be a few unhappy campers but if I read it right, this gate bidding has about a 90% against rating and the bidding just got started.

I guess I just don't like it when MIA agents aren't happy about something because, wrongfully so, it always boils over onto the customers, and those gate agents are a customer's last company contact before leaving the ground. Perhaps I just don't understand what it's like to try to work a schedule for 8-10 thousand employees while crossing your fingers and hoping you keep the majority of them happy.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

WNP,

I'm surprised at you !!!

Using words like "fair"..."lousy assignments etc"

(Though NOT dumping it in the laps of the MIA agents),........"THIS" is the agents reward for the AGENT/REZ group continually voting..NO UNION..........(DFW being the WORST examples) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Garfield1966]

Perhaps they realize the the alternative would be to end up b1tching about how management and the union are now screwing them over as opposed to just management.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Perhaps they realize the the alternative would be to end up b1tching about how management and the union are now screwing them over as opposed to just management.

And to hear tell, management's been doing it a loooooooooong time. Anyhow, I'm heading out to happy hour with a few of those agents and I'm betting after today, more than a few of them will be in pissy moods, and agents get mean when they drink Wild Turkey!

 

[eolesen]

(Though NOT dumping it in the laps of the MIA agents),........"THIS" is the agents reward for the AGENT/REZ group continually voting..NO UNION..........(DFW being the WORST examples) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, now, Bears, surely you realize that there's very little difference between how the TWU and agents bid... The only thing that is contractual is bidding start times and days off. There's nothing in the contract that says the TWU has the right to create a bid with specific work assignments. Some stations do it, but it's not contractual, so what benefit would it bring the agents?...

Agents bid by bid seniority, which for everyone except the ex-TW agents is their date of hire. Bidding seniority for ex-TW agents is more or less like the Kasher award, i.e. STL has full DOH, some cities had 25%, and others have 4/1/01.

If anything, the agents are still better off -- they have a lot more input into the bid creation process, i.e. they still have some ability to create the one-off shift that accommodates #3 in seniority Betsy's child care needs and her tai-chi classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays... The TWU bid usually mirrors what comes out of StaffPlan with a small dose of reality thrown in.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Now, now, Bears, surely you realize that there's very little difference between how the TWU and agents bid... The only thing that is contractual is bidding start times and days off. There's nothing in the contract that says the TWU has the right to create a bid with specific work assignments. Some stations do it, but it's not contractual, so what benefit would it bring the agents?...

Agents bid by bid seniority, which for everyone except the ex-TW agents is their date of hire. Bidding seniority for ex-TW agents is more or less like the Kasher award, i.e. STL has full DOH, some cities had 25%, and others have 4/1/01.

If anything, the agents are still better off -- they have a lot more input into the bid creation process, i.e. they still have some ability to create the one-off shift that accommodates #3 in seniority Betsy's child care needs and her tai-chi classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays... The TWU bid usually mirrors what comes out of StaffPlan with a small dose of reality thrown in.

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As I KNOW, your aware, I can't tell you HOW many times(in my "4" different stations), that when Management has tried to "micromanage" A shift bid(And they CAN do it via the contract, as you mention).......We would follow THEIR bid to the Letter, and Deliberatly make it FAIL, only to have them approach the union(as QUITE as they possibly could) to find Common ground !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But as you ALSO KNOW, every once in a While, some mgnt. HOT SHOT would take over the next bid, and try to punish certain seniority Individuals, ONLY to have the ****ING Bid EXPLODE in his face, ...And... shortly thereafter,..........PRESTO,......the GM would xfer the A$$ HOLE down to Cargo, or ...OUT THE FRIGGIN' DOOR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't do it for me....E, but I fully EXPECT you to tell everyone else on here, that what I just printed, is what YOU have seen happen, numerous times !!

OK..E,..."your on" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[eolesen]

Sorry, Bears, but at times I think we worked for different companies.... Everywhere I worked had some old fart whose speciality was bids, and most supvs and mgrs were smart enough not to get in their way. Those who tried got pummelled by the ones smart enough not to try to fix what wasn't broken...

And. as much as I hated some of the solutions it came up with at times, I have to say that Sabre did a pretty good job with the manning chart logic that went into StaffPlan. They spent a lot of time working with the guys in ORD, DFW, and JFK back in the early 90's, and it's only gotten better as they introduce stuff in place with carriers like BA, CO, and even the TSA, who all use(d) the system for manpower planning and forecasting.

Too bad they failed at coming up with a similar product for overhaul (Shift Manager??) and for call centers.... but they had airport terminal ops down pretty good.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Well, what I came to understand about bids last night was both simple, and nuts at the same time. The contention in MIA is that this gate bidding is their punishment for trying to lead the agents systemwide in a union drive last summer. MIA had the largest number of agents join the union at that time.

It doesn't stop there. On top of gate bidding just not working period, the days off and shift changes will hit the agents two fold; one, it will force many of them back behind the wheel because they have scheduled shifts that will no longer correlate with public transportation. The second part of that punishment is the price of gas they'll have to cough up after not having any type of substantial raise even cost of living for the past 8 years. Third, it screws up many agent's where their daycare and children in school are concerned as it cuts them out of shift times that allowed them to pick up their kids after school. Now, many of them will have to cough up extra money for daycare for their kids after school. Again, with no substantial raise, not even a COLA.

Then it gets better. I also came to understand that it isn't just the bid, it's the manning people. They say the manning offices are completely inept, failing to cover sick calls or vacations and the agents know that means that even with gate bidding, they'll be jerked all over the airport to cover for a manning staff that can't do the job. Also, that in MIA, manning doesn't do the bids like they should, the bids are done by management. The incompetence ran so deep for so long that the feds had to get involved in pay disputes that had some agents receiving back overtime pay for as much as three years.

So I see why they are pissed, there is more to deal with than just the bid.

As to suggestions of following a bid to the letter, its my understanding that they get written up for that in MIA, that management can deviate from the bid at will and compliance is mandatory.

My gut tells me that this is all a prelude to the hub manager being given a head count reduction directive. One way to do it is to come up with a bid that has people so pissed they walk, or a bid so bad it can't be followed which results in enough CR1s that they will be shown the door.

Several agents had copies of what they called "local procedures" and no two agents had the same thing, it was mind numbing!

The minds they are a scheming at the moment. I support labor, but by gawd I now admit, I don't understand it! Not when it pertains to airlines.

 

[eolesen]

It doesn't stop there. On top of gate bidding just not working period, the days off and shift changes will hit the agents two fold; one, it will force many of them back behind the wheel because they have scheduled shifts that will no longer correlate with public transportation. The second part of that punishment is the price of gas they'll have to cough up after not having any type of substantial raise even cost of living for the past 8 years. Third, it screws up many agent's where their daycare and children in school are concerned as it cuts them out of shift times that allowed them to pick up their kids after school. Now, many of them will have to cough up extra money for daycare for their kids after school. Again, with no substantial raise, not even a COLA.

On the transportation and childcare issues, I have a lot less sympathy. Transportation and childcare are an issue in just about any job, except perhaps for home-based businesses or real estate...

It's shift work. Period. That was part of the deal when they signed up, and them deciding to have kids (and yes, they know what causes that now....) didn't change the rules...

Yes, I'm a heartless bastard, but if you think this is just an issue for agents, you've got another thing coming. Go ask single-mom flight attendants on reserve how well it works for them.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

I don't think you're heartless at all. I agree with you about the kids thing.

However . . . . I DO sympathize with an agent who, for 20 years worked a schedule for the airline that allowed them to go out and have a family, there was stability in knowing what your job schedule was. When it changes like a rug pulled out from under your feet with little to no warning, it costs a lot of money to make changes in your personal life to comply. So that I understand. Remember, agents don't make 60 bucks an hour either, more like 15-20 which after withholding averages take home of 8-13. I sure as hell couldn't do it!