All the bickering about taking or not taking sick time. It seems when someone uses their, I said THEIR sick bank, then they are tarred and feathered and no better than a hopeless welfare case in some posters’ minds. It kills me reading these boards. We have people on here acting so self-righteous when we have a management team who is abusing every employee group’s contract like they don’t even exist. I don’t see any outcry about that fact as much as I do when it comes to using one’s earned sick bank, that was negotiated and is not just freely handed out. To me, letting the likes of this management team walk all over you and not making a united and very firm stand is far worse than how the other guy uses his sick bank. People won’t stand up for themselves when they are blatantly being shafted by a ruthless management team in charge of our company. Instead they will pay more attention to what the other guy does with his sick time! No wonder this management team is having their way with employees with this mind set being so pervasive. I am not advocating abusing one’s sick time at all here. What I am pointing out is: if all the energy spent biting each other in the back over sick time and how it’s used it, if that energy was turned to where it belongs, which is to either get this management team replaced or make them honor the signed contacts and run a profitable company, well then, all this energy spent over sick time bickering would reap far better results. As it is now this management team has you right where they want you, biting each other in the back while they walk among us. They have their way unnoticed because people are in a dither over frivolous issues. Sick time is a frivolous issue when you look at the way the company is being run and what the potential result could be. If we don’t stop this nonsense of back biting and holding this management team accountable real soon sick time bickering will be moot.
Sick Time
- Thread starter cavalier
- Start date
I have only said that calling in sick when you’re not sick to pad ones month (read “abusing sick timeâ€) is the same as stealing.cavalier said:
It is wrong, and there is no defense for that. What is the definition of sick? Physically, mentally, etc., but the bottom-line is that you are sick. You earned this benefit and that’s why it’s available.
There are people here who do abuse sick time to “burn itâ€, and to try and argue that is not the case would be ridiculous and result in ones loss of credibility, IMHO. It is debates like that where my own union loses its credibility if it were to pursue such a course.
When I debate these kinds of issues it is simply to offer my 2 cents, after all, that’s why we participate here, right?
Lastly, this kind of behavior is not frivolous, it hurts all of us and we all should care about it, it is wrong.
autofixer
Veteran
It is amazing to me, how some will bash the F/As for supposed "sick time" abuse, when the incompetent management of UAIR has abused, abrogated, voided and ignored any agreements or contracts that they have had with their employees or vendors. The criticism by some, is most likely rooted in envy. Most people cannot just call in sick, they must go through their boss and ask to be off and hope they will get paid. Or if you are in sales and work on commission, you simply miss out on any sales you could have had. The concept of banking and being paid a set amount of sick time is a foriegn concept to many. As we know in sales, the first objection is never the real objection. <_<
The problem with using your sick bank as personel vacations is that all you are doing is screwing your fellow employee. Just because you are a line holder doesn't entitle you to all the holidays off. Why should reserves have to work EVERY holiday because senior FA's are "sick". We all know that most sick calls around holidays are pure B.S. If you are a line holder and want the day off bid for it or bid a reserve line that will get it off for you. Surprisingly every year at U all the senior lineholders conviently get sick on Xmas, Turkeyday, and New Years. Its amazing how that sick bug hits the same time each year. Sick time is a benefit not a right. If you are really sick - call in - but if you need a "mental health day" maybe you should get a new job. I am sure the public and the FAA doesn't want an employee who "needs" a mental health day to be part of a crew flying at 600+mph at 35000'. As far as being fed up with U - get anew job if your so miserable. Be an adult and have some integrity to do the job they are paying you to do. If you don't like the pay and work rules leave and let a furloughed employee take your place.
Well, I beg to differ. I could be the abuser, as could many...it is simply wrong, no matter what our management does. Two wrongs do not make a right.autofixer said:
No matter what happens here, when I look in the mirror, I know that I am doing the best I can do, for all parties concerned. Most people here are not sick abusers, and do not appreciate those who are; believe me, they don't envy them, they are disgusted by that behavior and most would like to see them fired or disciplined....
The real damage done is to your co-workers who have to pick up an abusers slack.
Hasn't this topic played out enough?
Sick abuse is stealing, its not fair to your co-workers, its wrong, and there is no defense, period. (Calling in sick when you are sick is not wrong nor is it abuse)
Nuff said
delldude
Veteran
stoopidute442
Advanced
A320 Driver
Veteran
$810...stoopidute442 said:
Thats the penalty for my calling in sick now. This would not be an issue had sick leave been used for it's intended purpose. We've all been guilty of playing hookey, but some of us have taken it to extremes that put sick leave in the limelight. Call it your "right" if you will, but now we all pay the dues with penalties for legitimate sick calls.
A320 Driver <_<
pitguy
Veteran
Stealing sick time is wrong, but hey people around here have learned from the best thieves. The New Lorenzo and company. If your honest then your a sucker. Just ask Dave.
--Are you a fool?
--Are you a fool?
Cav -
I am not sure if the self-righteous remark was aimed at me or not, but let me say this. Imagine if you will, that with the current levles of sick calls in all departments that the cost to the company is 100 million dollars. (Just a figured pulled out of the air and not meant to be stated here as a fatual number.) If even half of the sick calls are legitimate then you still have some employees stealing 50 million dollars from the company every year and the problem get worse. Now I don't know about you, but turning this company around and making it profitable is very high on my agenda, because I love my job, I love my company, and I want us to succeed. When the company returns to profitability, we will all share the fruits of our labor via profit sharing...but we have to make a profit first. How would you feel knowing that the small percentage of employees that are abusing their sick time are taking money right out of your pocket? They are no better the Dave!
As for the way the company is stealing from employees with contract violations, I have spoken out about those same issues as well. Is the S check work disputable? Hell no. It is our mechanics work and Dave and Dave need to stop wasting money in the court rooms and put it into gearing up for the work. Is not offering Voluntary Furloughs to Flight Attendants right? Hell no. By my count there is a reduction in force and by the contract the company MUST offer a voluntary leave. Is there anything that I can do to change either of these situations? No. Is there something that I can od to shed light on them, yes, and I have done so on here. Is there something that I can do to stop employees from abusing their sick time? No. Is there something that I can do to shed some light on the subject, to make employees think twice and perhaps realize that there is a consequence to their actions? Maybe.
Posting information and debating issues are what this forum are all about. This is an issue that has a huge financial impact on our companies bottom line.
I am not sure if the self-righteous remark was aimed at me or not, but let me say this. Imagine if you will, that with the current levles of sick calls in all departments that the cost to the company is 100 million dollars. (Just a figured pulled out of the air and not meant to be stated here as a fatual number.) If even half of the sick calls are legitimate then you still have some employees stealing 50 million dollars from the company every year and the problem get worse. Now I don't know about you, but turning this company around and making it profitable is very high on my agenda, because I love my job, I love my company, and I want us to succeed. When the company returns to profitability, we will all share the fruits of our labor via profit sharing...but we have to make a profit first. How would you feel knowing that the small percentage of employees that are abusing their sick time are taking money right out of your pocket? They are no better the Dave!
As for the way the company is stealing from employees with contract violations, I have spoken out about those same issues as well. Is the S check work disputable? Hell no. It is our mechanics work and Dave and Dave need to stop wasting money in the court rooms and put it into gearing up for the work. Is not offering Voluntary Furloughs to Flight Attendants right? Hell no. By my count there is a reduction in force and by the contract the company MUST offer a voluntary leave. Is there anything that I can do to change either of these situations? No. Is there something that I can od to shed light on them, yes, and I have done so on here. Is there something that I can do to stop employees from abusing their sick time? No. Is there something that I can do to shed some light on the subject, to make employees think twice and perhaps realize that there is a consequence to their actions? Maybe.
Posting information and debating issues are what this forum are all about. This is an issue that has a huge financial impact on our companies bottom line.
I have to agree with Mark My Words on this. This is a classic case of "Two Wrongs NOT making a Right"
Should everyone share the "Earn'em and Burn'Em " way of thinking ? What would happen if everyone took that position at once? The airline would simply fold up is what !! Then what would you have to complain about?
The "Earn'em and Burn Em" attitude is also going to come back and haunt a lot of people , If U happens to survive this downward spiral? This company is becomng older and older with each furlough...and with age comes health issues more often than not. I have seen numerous people burn up thier so-called "earned bank" then later develope a "Real Problem". These are the ones that will really be signing the blues....but I'm sorry , that's a sympathy dance that I can't grasp the beat too.
This company has done many things that IMHO have not been right...or in some cases moral or even legal...yet these self-imposed vacations that people are taking is not the kind of medicine that will lend toward getting this company back on track either.
Many here think that U is done for....and to you that think so , I'll offer you this , The last card hasn't been played...and the Sheriff hasn't padlocked the doors on any facilities to date...So as long as we have a dog in this fight left...why stop trying??
U may close up tomorrow for all I know? U may turn a corner for all you know? One thing is for certain in either case. I'm working my schedule baring a real illness or injury....and I hope I have plenty of time on the books when and if the worst befalls me health wise.
I would rather protect my long term interests as opposed to acting like a spoiled child who's looking to simply "get over" on someone. This is me looking after me in a hopefull long-term scenario....Vs. just living for the moment as many like to do.
U may destroy all our lives in some fashion or another? , but I'll be damed if I'm going to compound my problems over hypothetical situations that have yet to play out....least of all at the expense of my co-workers..and my peace of mind.
Should everyone share the "Earn'em and Burn'Em " way of thinking ? What would happen if everyone took that position at once? The airline would simply fold up is what !! Then what would you have to complain about?
The "Earn'em and Burn Em" attitude is also going to come back and haunt a lot of people , If U happens to survive this downward spiral? This company is becomng older and older with each furlough...and with age comes health issues more often than not. I have seen numerous people burn up thier so-called "earned bank" then later develope a "Real Problem". These are the ones that will really be signing the blues....but I'm sorry , that's a sympathy dance that I can't grasp the beat too.
This company has done many things that IMHO have not been right...or in some cases moral or even legal...yet these self-imposed vacations that people are taking is not the kind of medicine that will lend toward getting this company back on track either.
Many here think that U is done for....and to you that think so , I'll offer you this , The last card hasn't been played...and the Sheriff hasn't padlocked the doors on any facilities to date...So as long as we have a dog in this fight left...why stop trying??
U may close up tomorrow for all I know? U may turn a corner for all you know? One thing is for certain in either case. I'm working my schedule baring a real illness or injury....and I hope I have plenty of time on the books when and if the worst befalls me health wise.
I would rather protect my long term interests as opposed to acting like a spoiled child who's looking to simply "get over" on someone. This is me looking after me in a hopefull long-term scenario....Vs. just living for the moment as many like to do.
U may destroy all our lives in some fashion or another? , but I'll be damed if I'm going to compound my problems over hypothetical situations that have yet to play out....least of all at the expense of my co-workers..and my peace of mind.
This will probably stir some crap, but a sick day is a benefit gaurented by each CBAs. For example in the IAM M&R Agreement, if the company feels you are not being honest, they can request a note. We also have won an arbitration case that we cannot be disciplined for the legitimate use of sick time, legitmate is defined as bringing a valid Dr's note and not developing a pattern of calling in sick in conjuction with your days off.
Also I find it funny how anyone who does not abuse sick time be hassled or disciplined for a benefit that is in a labor agreement.
Also I find it funny how anyone who does not abuse sick time be hassled or disciplined for a benefit that is in a labor agreement.
A320 Driver
Veteran
700UW,
Your post is spot on. Sick leave IS a benefit and legitimate use of it is not the problem. The problem starts when you change the benefit into an entitlement to be used up by the time you retire.
I'm not a sick leave abuser, but now I'm fined for my legitimate use of it because of those who are.
A320 Driver :angry:
Your post is spot on. Sick leave IS a benefit and legitimate use of it is not the problem. The problem starts when you change the benefit into an entitlement to be used up by the time you retire.
I'm not a sick leave abuser, but now I'm fined for my legitimate use of it because of those who are.
A320 Driver :angry:
700UW ,700UW said:
Again , a scenario such as this , is a clear-cut case of how wrong the company itself can be !!! ..and Yes action on the Unions part is clearly warranted.
However this does not make "Burning it " for the self-serving case of "I've Earned it" right.
I have no beef at all with someone with a legitimate illness or injury being out for one day or however many days it takes to return to a healthy functioning state of being....but the recreational "Sick-Out" aspect is not kosher in my opinion....and this makes "Joe-Work-A-Day" look like as big of a jerk as those in management whom he/she complains about.
In my little department of 16 strong...it's always the same few that pull this junk , at the expense of the rest. It's plain as the nose on your face that these are not ill people either. These are usually the very ones in my corner of the world that have the best schedule , the best days off and the most amount of earned vacation time too. These people in light of this scenario are nothing more than "Takers" in my eyes.....and they thumb their noses at their duty at the expense of others whom do not have their cushy schedule.
I know for fact , that since I returned to CLT , that I have racked up more OT than I have in the past 5 years because of these types of individuals. I have at times had to avoid answering a phone on my scheduled days off , just to not be hassled about covering the "lame and lazy" Notice I did not use the term "Sick,lame and lazy".
Again...Sick is Sick and that is understandable....but the recreational sick-out is not excuseable. The repeat offenders do need to be taken to task...and should be forced to return with a signed Doctors excuse. People like this only create the companies need to act in a sweeping un-justified manner...instead of isolating the real offenders....but this is yet another flaw in U's managements means with dealing with its problems.
fatherabraham
Veteran
- Sep 27, 2002
- 814
- 354
All,
First off I am in the " 2 wrongs don't make a right " camp. That being said I ask if anyone has answers to Questions below?
Do some groups have " personal days " that are used for sick days? If so are they normally all expected to be used and therefore Mgt plans accordingly?
Has Mgt poorly judged the increased usage of an aging employee base ( the groups that bank time)?
Have any new LOA's ( post BK ) shortened the length of time one can use a sick bank....rendering some accumulated time useless as will be forced into LTD benefits?
I pose these questions to point out how each individual sick call is often a complicated issue that is not usually black and white but rather gray.
Employees who may have worked under ill conditions in the past may no longer have such loyalty to Usair? We have all learned that " loyalty" is not a " goodwill asset" to be considered in Mgt negotiations!
First off I am in the " 2 wrongs don't make a right " camp. That being said I ask if anyone has answers to Questions below?
Do some groups have " personal days " that are used for sick days? If so are they normally all expected to be used and therefore Mgt plans accordingly?
Has Mgt poorly judged the increased usage of an aging employee base ( the groups that bank time)?
Have any new LOA's ( post BK ) shortened the length of time one can use a sick bank....rendering some accumulated time useless as will be forced into LTD benefits?
I pose these questions to point out how each individual sick call is often a complicated issue that is not usually black and white but rather gray.
Employees who may have worked under ill conditions in the past may no longer have such loyalty to Usair? We have all learned that " loyalty" is not a " goodwill asset" to be considered in Mgt negotiations!
