Sky Gods

TonyB

Senior
Sep 22, 2003
282
0
I sent this letter to the editor to Bill Leader of the DFW People.


Dear Bill, 4/9/2007

Behold the Sky Gods! After having “pulled together†since the “Great Bankruptcy Scare of 2003,†the Sky Gods feel slighted and betrayed by the company. Alas, they will not partake of the big April payoff; neither will the rest of the mere mortal employees of American Airlines.
Let us not confuse mere mortal dissatisfaction with Sky God dissatisfaction. An unhappy aircraft mechanic would be considered “disgruntled,†while an unhappy Sky God is “righteously indignant.â€
All mere mortal employees are expected to join the Sky Gods as they display their righteous indignation at the Sky God Pantheon in Euless on April 18. Chariots shall whisk supporters from DFW to the Pantheon. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, cries of sorrow and woe. Orators and Sages will be there for inspiration. All this convective activity will no doubt cause the atmosphere to become unstable. More than likely we will hear thunder and see lightning flash across the sky courtesy of Zeus!
Note that all mere mortal support of the Sky Gods will also be deemed as righteous indignation.
Remember that once the Sky Gods “get theirs,†any employees (aircraft mechanics in particular) who are not satisfied with the table scraps they receive from the company will no longer be entitled to righteous indignation status. You will go back to being a disgruntled mechanic. No doubt another Sky God “be nice to mechanics†campaign will ensue.
All sarcasm aside, I think the pilot group should come out and say what this rally is about. It is about the pilots and pilot issues. I do not have a problem if you leave it at that. I commend their effort. PUP (Pilot Unity Pays) speaks for itself. Don’t try to tell us that you are doing this for us. It wasn’t too long ago that the aircraft mechanic group was considered (and may still be) to be angry and disgruntled. There have been numerous instances of mechanics being derided or ostracized for our perceived lack of team effort, or on the other end of the spectrum, being thanked to death just for showing up for a gate call. I suppose we weren’t “pulling to win’ hard enough for some peoples taste. Guess what? We told you! We all pulled, and we all know who won.

Finally, I cannot end my tirade without a parting shot to the best union that money can buy, The Transport Workers Union.
Hey, you guys out there?!
Hello…Jim Little…Gary Yingst… …Big Don V.…Keith… Frankie (I still love you)…anyone?
Where is the TWU “Will Strike if Provoked†snake (commonly known as the TWU Smoke Snake)?
I see Local 565 has reluctantly agreed to pop into the PUP fest but where’s our rally?


Tony Barreto
Aircraft Maintenance
DFW[/b]
 
All sarcasm aside, I think the pilot group should come out and say what this rally is about. It is about the pilots and pilot issues.

This 'rally' has absolutely nothing to do with pilot issues. It is being thrown together at the last minute by a union 'leadership' that is keenly aware of it's almost certain demise in the upcoming election. And it's all an effort by the aforementioned 'leadership' to hold onto their cushy union jobs by getting re-elected... The only reason you were invited was because hardly any pilots had signed up for the 'march on AA headquarters', and the APA decided it would look pretty lame to have only 200-300 pilots (out of 9000+) being out there alone. So they decided to 'invite' other groups to participate... They also knew it'd be a hard-sell, so they decided to waste thousands more of our union dues by providing food to entice more participants...

Judging from the response of our pilot corps to this stupidity, the majority of us see this 'pep rally' for exactly what it is; a last-ditch effort by our castrated union 'leaders' to look tough and try to scrounge up a few votes...

So while your 'sky god' diatribe was cute, it was wasted bandwidth... Most pilots are sickened by the constant stream of BS flowing from our union. But you were right about one thing, most of us only care about what we are going to negotiate for ourselves. I quit caring what other employee groups think about us nearly two decades ago. It's useless to try to justify our issues with anyone. It's fun to call us greedy pilots and so on, but the question is, what would YOU be willing to give up so a ramper or flight attendant could make a little more money?... I thought so.
 
The only reason you were invited was because hardly any pilots had signed up for the 'march on AA headquarters',
Gee, thanks for the invite, but no thanks. :p

So while your 'sky god' diatribe was cute, it was wasted bandwidth...
I have been scorned by a Sky God, woe is me... :eek:

I quit caring what other employee groups think about us nearly two decades ago. It's useless to try to justify our issues with anyone. It's fun to call us greedy pilots...
Don't flatter yourself, ace (pun intended). Obviously you do care. If you can stop being so defensive, you will see no where in my satirical diatribe did I mention "greedy pilots." I am one of the few who beleive that you get what you negotiate, not what you deserve.That applies to greedy pilots also. :p

and so on, but the question is, what would YOU be willing to give up so a ramper or flight attendant could make a little more money?... I thought so.
You thought so? Your arrogance has clouded your thought. American Airlines has the highest paid baggage handlers in the world on the coat tails of the aircraft mechanic. Why do you think we've been trying to break away from our worthless union for the past two decades? So we have been giving up, and you know not what you speak of, Maverick .:down:
 
It is your arrogance that clouds your judgement. AA baggage handlers are not the "highest paid in the world"-Southwest's are (domestically speaking). However, we are the highest compensated among the 6 legacies; the same is true for AA mechanics, pilots, F/As, and agents. As for AA baggage handlers "riding the coattails" of AA mechanics, you obviously learned nothing from NWA, UAL, DL, EAL, CO, or even SWA. So lets review:

1. At NWA, AMFA was elected because the majority of AMTs there felt the same way you do. They got away from the "bag smashers" and where are they now? What are the AMTs at NW now making? About $26/hr? I think it was extremely hypocritical for the AMFA to ask for the bag smashers support after all the lies and venom AMFA and it's supporters spewed toward them. Since the NW mechanics got away from the bagsmashers, why were they humiliated by NW manangement with the strike? Why did AMFA sign a contract where the AMTs make $26/hr? You as an AA mechanic make a lot more than they do.

2. UA- Pretty much the same as NW without a strike. Voted AMFA in and ratified a contract that pays less than AA. Additionally, they lost pensions and their ESOP.You make more than they do.

3. DL- Non-union- they can pay AMTs and bagsmashers anything they want. Mechanics there are among the lowest paid in addition to massive farmouts. Their bagsmashers make around $17/hr with higher payments for medical. Again, you make more than they do.

4. EAL- After the strike, Lorenzo farmed out all ramp but kept aircraft maintenance in house. But the pay rates were far far below UA, AA, DL at the time. If the all the bag smashers at EAL were outsourced (no bag smashers "riding the AMT coattails) then why did EAL pay far far less than the others?

5. CO in 1982- Same as EAL.

6.SWA- The one you love to compare yourselves to. Yes, Southwest pays it's AMTs more than AA-although they only have around 1500 due to no heavy overhaul. However, they pay their bagsmashers (as well as the rest of their employees) more than AA. Yes, the SW bagsmashers (TWU) are absolutely the highest paid and they have nothing to do with the AMFA represented mechanics at SW- who are also the highest paid.

Of all the airlines that have decimated their ramp employees, name one, JUST ONE, where the result was a financial windfall for the mechanics. You can't because there aren't any.

These examples were intended to show you that there is absolutely no "coattail riding" of the AA bagsmahers on the AA mechanics. IT IS YOUR IMAGINATION BECAUSE IN YOUR SICK TWISTED MIND YOU HAVE TO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR YOUR INADEQUACIES. Your "blame" should be directed at your fellow AMTs at: NW, where they crossed their own picket lines after ONLY 4 MONTHS which broke the strike and where they subsequently agreed to work for $26/hr; at UA where they signed an inferior contract helping to depress the wages; at DL where those NON-UNION,at will, AMT mechanics continue to show up for work for wages that are near the bottom.

As an AA bagsmasher, I was delighted that the NW mechanics split and went with AMFA; it proved your coattail crap wrong. I have been hearing your "coattail riding" crap ever since my days at EAL in the 1980s. I think the AA mechanics should go AMFA like the NW mechanics did; that way when you strike I will walk right past your picket line on the way to work giving YOU the one finger salute.

One more thought before the end. Who is riding whose coattails at UPS? Hint, UPS can easily replace its 1500 $40/hr line mechanics but they are in the same union (IBT) with tens of thousands of truck drivers and "boxsmashers".
 
I think the AA mechanics should go AMFA like the NW mechanics did; that way when you strike I will walk right past your picket line on the way to work giving YOU the one finger salute.
A good twu man...Scab in waiting. Must of been a proud iam member too. So do you cross all picket lines or just AMFA's?
 
A good twu man...Scab in waiting. Must of been a proud iam member too. So do you cross all picket lines or just AMFA's?
I walked the picket line at EAL! I just get f*cking sick and tired of the usual verbal diarreah from SOME (most) AMTs that claim bag handlers make what they make simply because we are in the same union. SW, NW, and the others I listed proves beyond all doubt that this is a fallacy. I want them to separate from us more than they do SO THEY WILL SHUT THE F*CK UP. But even then they will blame us like the AMFA mechanics at NW blamed the IAM rampers for their failed strike even though the AMFA loudmouths there ignored the fact that they stampeded across their own picket line.
I would have had no problem with AMFA if they would have conducted their drives WITHOUT INSULTING, DEGRADING, or DEMEANING OTHER WORK GROUPS. If they would have based their platform solely on the facts and benefits of their position of craft unionism WITHOUT DEMEANING OTHER GROUPS, I wouldn't have a problem with them. But they told those mechanics exactly what they wanted to hear; like the clown that started this thread (rampers riding coattails, holding them back,etc.).They spewed the same sh*t when they tried to get in at EAL. But since AMFA considers me a bag ape and way overpaid at $20/hr after 17 years (while they claim to be walmart workers at $33/hr) then, yes, screw them; I would dance across their picket line giving a double 1 finger salute. I believe in honoring any union picket line where the striking union has RESPECT for other workers.
 
I walked the picket line at EAL! I just get f*cking sick and tired of the usual verbal diarreah from SOME (most) AMTs that claim bag handlers make what they make simply because we are in the same union. SW, NW, and the others I listed proves beyond all doubt that this is a fallacy. I want them to separate from us more than they do SO THEY WILL SHUT THE F*CK UP. But even then they will blame us like the AMFA mechanics at NW blamed the IAM rampers for their failed strike even though the AMFA loudmouths there ignored the fact that they stampeded across their own picket line.
I would have had no problem with AMFA if they would have conducted their drives WITHOUT INSULTING, DEGRADING, or DEMEANING OTHER WORK GROUPS. If they would have based their platform solely on the facts and benefits of their position of craft unionism WITHOUT DEMEANING OTHER GROUPS, I wouldn't have a problem with them. But they told those mechanics exactly what they wanted to hear; like the clown that started this thread (rampers riding coattails, holding them back,etc.).They spewed the same sh*t when they tried to get in at EAL. But since AMFA considers me a bag ape and way overpaid at $20/hr after 17 years (while they claim to be walmart workers at $33/hr) then, yes, screw them; I would dance across their picket line giving a double 1 finger salute. I believe in honoring any union picket line where the striking union has RESPECT for other workers.
You don't need my "arrogance" to demean you. You do a fine job yourself, just read what you write. No one is insulting you. You are insulting yourself.
If mechanics want to choose AMFA what business is it of yours? At least the mechanics at NWA made a stand as opposed to the "we'll get 'em next time, brother" cowardness coming from the TWU. Since you have all the answers. How many mechanic jobs at AA have been lost to Fleet Service since we stopped doing push backs and de-icing? AMFA or not, you'd cross your own mother's picket line to sell out to the man. You claimed to have walked at EAL? Doubt it. You're not worthy of licking Charlie Bryants arse. :down:
 
You don't need my "arrogance" to demean you. You do a fine job yourself, just read what you write. No one is insulting you. You are insulting yourself.
If mechanics want to choose AMFA what business is it of yours? At least the mechanics at NWA made a stand as opposed to the "we'll get 'em next time, brother" cowardness coming from the TWU. Since you have all the answers. How many mechanic jobs at AA have been lost to Fleet Service since we stopped doing push backs and de-icing? AMFA or not, you'd cross your own mother's picket line to sell out to the man. You claimed to have walked at EAL? Doubt it. You're not worthy of licking Charlie Bryants arse. :down:
AMFA and it's supporters have continually attacked other ground workers (ramp) for as long as anyone can remember. During their negotiations with NW before the strike, AMFA sought to lessen it's "contribution" by trying to get NW management to increase the IAM's "contribution". Why did they just target ramp and agents? Why not pilots, F/As, and/or management? Because it spoke volumes of who they hated.
I have said over and over and over again that, in my view, the AA mechanics should be separate from the ramp; just like the pilots and F/As simply because the nature of their work is different and because many of you want to go. I also feel that the UPS aircraft mechanics should be separate from the drivers and loaders for the same reason (different work). If you want to go to AMFA you have the right to do so; that is your decision and I wish you were there yesterday.

I don't know about the deicing and pushbacks at AA because I was at EAL at the time. However, count how many A&P jobs there were right after the "loss" of deicing and pushbacks and compare the numbers of A&Ps of subsequent years up until today.

As for crossing a picket line- only AMFAs just because I hate them. That said, it's a moot point because I am not an A&P and have no desire to be one; I'd make a much better pilot. I would cross an AMFA picket line to do my own job (ramp) like the NW rampers did. I have honored all other pickets and boycotted even when the workers lost the strike and was legally ended. I did in fact walk the picket line at EAL and met Charlie Bryan (not Bryant).

I find it interesting that you did not respond to any of my examples regarding the "coattail" non-sense.

Also, you stated that the AMFA made a stand at NW. What about UA? What about Alaska? Mesaba?
 
AMFA and it's supporters have continually attacked other ground workers (ramp) for as long as anyone can remember. During their negotiations with NW before the strike, AMFA sought to lessen it's "contribution" by trying to get NW management to increase the IAM's "contribution". Why did they just target ramp and agents? Why not pilots, F/As, and/or management? Because it spoke volumes of who they hated.
I have said over and over and over again that, in my view, the AA mechanics should be separate from the ramp; just like the pilots and F/As simply because the nature of their work is different and because many of you want to go. I also feel that the UPS aircraft mechanics should be separate from the drivers and loaders for the same reason (different work). If you want to go to AMFA you have the right to do so; that is your decision and I wish you were there yesterday.

I don't know about the deicing and pushbacks at AA because I was at EAL at the time. However, count how many A&P jobs there were right after the "loss" of deicing and pushbacks and compare the numbers of A&Ps of subsequent years up until today.

As for crossing a picket line- only AMFAs just because I hate them. That said, it's a moot point because I am not an A&P and have no desire to be one; I'd make a much better pilot. I would cross an AMFA picket line to do my own job (ramp) like the NW rampers did. I have honored all other pickets and boycotted even when the workers lost the strike and was legally ended. I did in fact walk the picket line at EAL and met Charlie Bryan (not Bryant).

I find it interesting that you did not respond to any of my examples regarding the "coattail" non-sense.

Also, you stated that the AMFA made a stand at NW. What about UA? What about Alaska? Mesaba?
Forgive my typo, Charles Eustice Bryan. Since you claim to have worked at EAL (which I still doubt) you will notice that most of the concessionary crap that is in our contract is what the IAM at Eastern went on strike for. The TWU just gave up the booty like a two dollar crack ho.
Brother, you seem to have a lot of hate in your heart. Much of it is self hate evidenced by your consistantly belittling your own job. I'm all about the love. But you have to love yourself first. That is what many don't understand, including you. I love my profession and I would like to see all aircraft mechanic and related in one union. At this point it doesn't have to be AMFA, it could be something new for all I care; as long as it has the mechanic and related interests first and foremost in mind and is not the TWU/IAM AFL-CIO sellout artists. Once we get our own house in order we can worry about supporting other unions in a strike situation. I would honor any picket line, even yours.
If I don't respond to your examples its because in my arrogance I don't wish to waste my time. Like I said. I'm about the love. Perhaps its hard love but hard love is better than no love at all. :D
 
Forgive my typo, Charles Eustice Bryan. Since you claim to have worked at EAL (which I still doubt) you will notice that most of the concessionary crap that is in our contract is what the IAM at Eastern went on strike for. The TWU just gave up the booty like a two dollar crack ho.
Brother, you seem to have a lot of hate in your heart. Much of it is self hate evidenced by your consistantly belittling your own job. I'm all about the love. But you have to love yourself first. That is what many don't understand, including you. I love my profession and I would like to see all aircraft mechanic and related in one union. At this point it doesn't have to be AMFA, it could be something new for all I care; as long as it has the mechanic and related interests first and foremost in mind and is not the TWU/IAM AFL-CIO sellout artists. Once we get our own house in order we can worry about supporting other unions in a strike situation. I would honor any picket line, even yours.
If I don't respond to your examples its because in my arrogance I don't wish to waste my time. Like I said. I'm about the love. Perhaps its hard love but hard love is better than no love at all. :D
Worked at EAL in the hangars and ramp. The reason the strike occurred is because the EAL mechanics (and others) did not want to work for CO wages which were vastly inferior to AA wages. EAL people wanted parity with AA and UA people and would have loved to have had AA's contract. The strike also occurred because of the fact that EAL was being sold off piece by piece; this was their plan all along as evidenced by EAL management's "chunks" memo.
As for "self hate", I have none; don't know where you got that from. I have never "belittled" my job (show me where); you, like minded individuals, and AMFA have been the experts at that with your talk of "coattails"; inferring that we're overpaid. I hope you do get your own union and negotiate only for your best interests (like pilots and F/As). However, don't need your support. We can stand on our own and earn our own way. If "the man" wins then so be it. I can get another job paying more. I would rather perish at the hands of the man than be supported by the likes of you. Who knows, if the man destroys us, maybe you can ask him for that $100/hr you feel entitled to; but I wouldn't hold my breath. And finally, you did not respond to any of my examples because you could not find one instance where the destruction of rampers resulted in the enrichment of mechanics.
 
Worked at EAL in the hangars and ramp. The reason the strike occurred is because the EAL mechanics (and others) did not want to work for CO wages which were vastly inferior to AA wages. EAL people wanted parity with AA and UA people and would have loved to have had AA's contract. The strike also occurred because of the fact that EAL was being sold off piece by piece; this was their plan all along as evidenced by EAL management's "chunks" memo.
As for "self hate", I have none; don't know where you got that from. I have never "belittled" my job (show me where); you, like minded individuals, and AMFA have been the experts at that with your talk of "coattails"; inferring that we're overpaid. I hope you do get your own union and negotiate only for your best interests (like pilots and F/As). However, don't need your support. We can stand on our own and earn our own way. If "the man" wins then so be it. I can get another job paying more. I would rather perish at the hands of the man than be supported by the likes of you. Who knows, if the man destroys us, maybe you can ask him for that $100/hr you feel entitled to; but I wouldn't hold my breath. And finally, you did not respond to any of my examples because you could not find one instance where the destruction of rampers resulted in the enrichment of mechanics.
"Destruction of rampers." Wow that's some heavy duty self loathing you carry. Seek help. Its because of people like you that unionism in this country is DOA. That's why I love the French. The garbagemen go on strike, everyone goes on strike in support. Why? Because the French know that after they get the one group of workers, "the man" will come after everyone else. But you are told by our "free" corporate controlled press to hate the French so you probably hate them. You'll probably suggest that I move there. No thanks, not yet.
You won't have to worry about going anywhere else to get a better paying job. Your mighty TWU will never go on strike. You'll keep grovelling to the man,even if he paid you $2.00/hour
:down:
 
"Destruction of rampers." Wow that's some heavy duty self loathing you carry. Seek help. Its because of people like you that unionism in this country is DOA. That's why I love the French. The garbagemen go on strike, everyone goes on strike in support. Why? Because the French know that after they get the one group of workers, "the man" will come after everyone else. But you are told by our "free" corporate controlled press to hate the French so you probably hate them. You'll probably suggest that I move there. No thanks, not yet.
You won't have to worry about going anywhere else to get a better paying job. Your mighty TWU will never go on strike. You'll keep grovelling to the man,even if he paid you $2.00/hour
:down:
Again-no self loathing. The reasons unionism is DOA in this country are: 1. The line was NOT drawn at EAL; an industry wide shutdown should have taken place; but it didn't. 2. Massive plant shutdowns and outsourcing overseas means less union jobs. 3. Unlimited and uncontrolled immigration-more workers than work which keeps wages down. 4. Moving from a manufacturing based economy to an information based one.

Don't hate the French even though they hate us; I am indifferent to them. If you decide to move there you better learn the koran and be prepared to face East and put your a$$ in the air 5 times a day because Muslims will one day be the majority.

Grovel to the man? Hardly. If the TWU were to bring back a contract that I found to be unacceptable I would find other employment. If AA's ramp compensation matched those of our legacy competitors, I would find that unacceptable and leave.
 
you'd cross your own mother's picket line to sell out to the man. :down:

Amen; At my station, TWU leadership stands by as TWU members ( working overtime ) work alongside non-union AA contractors, to do work once assigned to the TWU.

The IAM, would have never allowed non-union personnel even in the same building.

Most ex-TWAere will agree, the battle-lines were clearly marked off by the IAM at TWA.

Yeh, we fought, got bloodied but we're still here at AA, long after TWA's last flight.
 
We all get it...The pilots hate the AMT's the AMT's hate the ramp, the ramp hates the cleaners...and so on and so on...

Here's a nice perspective on all this by fellow poster UAL_Tech. I can't find the thread it was in, but it fits perfectly everytime this "coat tail" BS shows up.


"This is something that someone here should explain to me because it must be beyond my comprehension.

I hear this ‘coat tale’ crap ‘wayyyyyyyyyy to much’ without a justification for this type of mentality.
In fact, this type of mentality continues to divide ‘us’ and provides fuel for the pyre.

JMHO-

The people that believe this are delusional and in some respects are insecure as to whom they are.

Do you (meaning the individuals that adhere to this philosophy) think that by ranting to reduce the wages of others will somehow(?) put their(!) pennies in you own pocket?

(FYI, the ‘penny watchers’ are scooping up all of the pennies, not you).

Would it not be more logical to state that if a ‘pickle picker’ employee makes X then ‘I should make’ = X + (X*j) for my skills? And, if the value of X is raised, would not the formula of ‘I should make’ be raised as well?

For those that adhere to the ‘mantra’ to reduce the wages of those that you ‘deem’ below your ‘status’ in your misguided search for higher wages are not only belittling yourselves but your fellow workers.

If we work together to raise the value of ‘X’ then we work to raise the value of ‘I should make'."
 
Amen; At my station, TWU leadership stands by as TWU members ( working overtime ) work alongside non-union AA contractors, to do work once assigned to the TWU.

The IAM, would have never allowed non-union personnel even in the same building.

Most ex-TWAere will agree, the battle-lines were clearly marked off by the IAM at TWA.

Yeh, we fought, got bloodied but we're still here at AA, long after TWA's last flight.
Yeah, but wasn't your TWA/IAM payrates the absolute lowest among the legacies?