Some Interesting News Comments

USA320Pilot

Veteran
May 18, 2003
8,175
1,539
www.usaviation.com
Charlotte Observer

Asking a judge to reject labor contracts is a common tactic for airlines in bankruptcy court, and it can be a powerful incentive for unions to agree to cut pay and benefits. Unions and management typically reach consensual agreements before a judge has to rule.

The company's unions, which had anticipated Friday's motion, said they would not be bullied into signing bad deals with the Arlington, Va.-based company.

The airline is proposing to replace existing contracts with its latest offers to union leaders, which it says represent pay and practices consistent with low-cost competitors.

Under bankruptcy law, a judge can void labor agreements if he finds unions have rejected company proposals "without good cause."

Some leaders of the three unions say they don't fear taking their chances with a judge.

"I don't see the point in shooting our own selves in the head," said Mike Flores, a flight-attendant union leader from Charlotte. "If the judge wants to do it, then so be it."

In court documents, the airline said it would save $40 million from closing a maintenance facility. The company provided no further details. US Airways has heavy maintenance facilities in Pittsburgh and Charlotte.

USA320Pilot comments: Remeber when I said there could be more IAM "pain" and that each company proposal would get worse...

That agreement expires Jan. 15, and the company said that if permanent wage cuts are not in place by then, the ATSB is unlikely to extend it. That would leave the airline unable to use cash and would trigger a shutdown. The judge is expected to rule on the cuts by Jan. 1.

The airline seems to be close to an agreement with reservations and gate agents, who met with the company Friday. The two have agreed on many issues, including a new pay scale, but differ on the company's proposal to outsource certain reservations jobs. The company is scheduled to present a new proposal Tuesday.

USA320Pilot comments: Who first reported on this board the CWA contract news and that the parties were getting closer to an agreement?

Complete Story


Pittsburgh Tribune Reivew

US Airways is now seeking $716 million in wage and benefit cuts from the Association of Flight Attendants, the Communications Workers of America and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. That's a $66 million increase from the airline's previous demand for $650 million from the three labor groups.

"These people are not operating in good faith," said Teddy Xidas, president-elect of the Association of Flight Attendants' master council. "They keep changing the targets. Obviously, they don't want an agreement with the flight attendants."

USA320Pilot comments: The CWA, AFA, and IAM script is playing like with ALPA. ALPA's financial and legal advisors told the MEC each company proposal would get worse because the company's finances would continue to deteriorate during negotiations. By playing hardball ALPA's RC4 made it worse for the pilot group and now other union leaders are doing the same thing to its membership. Each company proposal will likely continue to get worse and union leaders are failing their membership. The purpose of a union is to get the best deal possible, not the worst, which appears to be happening again at US Airways. If you're mad about this, voice your concern to your union leaders because every reader on this board was warned this could happen.

Complete Story


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

The airline then said it would be obligated to continue negotiations with the unions for new agreements to replace the ones imposed by the court. Those negotiations, the airline contends, would be conducted under the terms of the Railway Labor Act, which mandates a dispute resolution process including mediation through the National Mediation Board (NMB), and in rare cases, a Presidential Emergency Board.

The International Association of Machinists, the union that represents mechanics and baggage handlers, contends the judge has only two options in the US Airways case: reject the company's application and leave the labor contracts intact or approve the application and terminate the labor agreements.

If the judge allows the airline to reject its agreements, the IAM says US Airways would be free to impose wages, work rules and benefits. The judge, however, cannot impose permanent contract terms on the parties.

If there is no contract, it's possible unions could strike. But it was not clear yesterday what role, if any, the NMB might play in this new legal territory. An NMB spokesman was unavailable to comment.

This is untested legal ground, said Candace Johnson, spokeswoman for the Communications Workers of America, which represents customer service workers. She said the union is hoping the situation does not lead to a work stoppage.

"We keep moving forward in negotiations,'' Johnson said. "We're hoping we can work something out.''

Complete Story

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
 
USA320Pilot said:
Charlotte Observer

USA320Pilot comments: The CWA, AFA, and IAM script is playing like with ALPA. ALPA's financial and legal advisors told the MEC each company proposal would get worse because the company's finances would continue to deteriorate during negotiations.
[post="200343"][/post]​



You don't seem to get it. Management will keep coming back for more until someone says no. Why not? You (ALPA) have caved everytime they come to you for more. Why do you think they won't use that play book again and again? Mark my words 320pilot, if U somehow makes it through the next few months, they will be back to you for more. Care to take a bet?
 
Why are you wasting your time! You have such an obsession with the other work groups! I'm sending you some Charmin to wipe your chin. You really need a life. You've been drinking too much koolaid.
 
320spinmeister is in full press this morning.

Must suck to be scared.
 
isthisok said:
Why are you wasting your time! You have such an obsession with the other work groups! I'm sending you some Charmin to wipe your chin. You really need a life. You've been drinking too much koolaid.
[post="200359"][/post]​

isthisok, you could send this nutball to a toilet paper making factory and it wouldn't be enough. I think he eats it... Afterall, you are what you eat. :lol:
 
If the employees vote this in, or the judge, morale will be so bad, that it will absolutely effect the co. survival anyway.

Its doomsville no matter what.

Prediction: company won't make it through the first quarter, which is our slowest quarter, regardless of signed agreements or not.

Folks are booking away and using up there frequent flying miles now. Once the miles are used up, we won't have any bookings to survive if we came to work for free.
 
PITbull said:
If the employees vote this in, or the judge, morale will be so bad, that it will absolutely effect the co. survival anyway.

Its doomsville no matter what.

Prediction: company won't make it through the first quarter, which is our slowest quarter, regardless of signed agreements or not.

Folks are booking away and using up there frequent flying miles now. Once the miles are used up, we won't have any bookings to survive if we came to work for free.
[post="200366"][/post]​

PITbull, its sad. I too don't give the place past February.
 
They may or may not be close to an agreement with the union (CWA) but it will never pass if put out for a vote unless it some how guarantees that most will be furloughed with at least unemployment benefits. Again, this group could care less if US survives or not...they want out!
 
EyeInTheSky said:
PITbull, its sad. I too don't give the place past February.
[post="200367"][/post]​


EXACTLY why I took all my vacation in January. BTW, I really am low maintenance. Since this may be my last hooray, any cheap places to stay in Hawaii, the Orient, Africa, Australia, Iraq...ooops, definite brain fart.

If anyone lives or has a place in one of these places (except Iraq), I would love to visit before it may not ever be possible in the future.

BTW, I clean windows. ;) B)
 
Since this may be my last hooray, any cheap places to stay in Hawaii, the Orient, Africa, Australia, Iraq

As you noted, I would stay away from Iraq....but if you make it to Kuwait, they have a really nice Sheraton.

USA320Pilot comments: The CWA, AFA, and IAM script is playing like with ALPA. ALPA's financial and legal advisors told the MEC each company proposal would get worse because the company's finances would continue to deteriorate during negotiations. By playing hardball ALPA's RC4 made it worse for the pilot group and now other union leaders are doing the same thing to its membership. Each company proposal will likely continue to get worse and union leaders are failing their membership.

I often wonder what planet those people are from. Holding out an offer, and when it gets rejected, reducing the next offer......is always referred to as "not bargaining in good faith." I will feel sorry for many of your fellow employees, USA320....and don't get any pleasure from the vision of them having to start new careers and reshuffle the deck (although my gut instinct tells me that as hard as they have worked, for as little reward, that they will surface and be better for the turmoil) BUT when this company liquidates, you will have gotten your ultimate reward.

Sort of like Yassir Arafat. I read someplace, upon his death, that he will go straight to heaven to be met by 72 virgins selected especially for him.

In his case, all 72 virgins look exactly like Yassir Arafat. YUCK!
 
bobcat said:
They may or may not be close to an agreement with the union (CWA) but it will never pass if put out for a vote unless it some how guarantees that most will be furloughed with at least unemployment benefits. Again, this group could care less if US survives or not...they want out!
[post="200384"][/post]​

Pittsburgh had a local union meeting yesterday...STANDING ROOM ONLY.

Sentiment was so bad, and folks want all of it to go to the judge, and if abrogation occurs, shut it down.

The President was even surprised at how vocal folks where in the room. 7 hour meeting, and there was no reasoning with them or compromise.

The reserves are upset beyond belief as they received their pay checks. While the meeting was going on, there was an announcement of the co. filinG ABROGATION, PENSION TERMINATION, AND 1114 ON RETIRMENT MEDICAL.

That was it! they had it.
 
ELP_WN_Psgr said:
As you noted, I would stay away from Iraq....but if you make it to Kuwait, they have a really nice Sheraton.
I often wonder what planet those people are from. Holding out an offer, and when it gets rejected, reducing the next offer......is always referred to as "not bargaining in good faith." I will feel sorry for many of your fellow employees, USA320....and don't get any pleasure from the vision of them having to start new careers and reshuffle the deck (although my gut instinct tells me that as hard as they have worked, for as little reward, that they will surface and be better for the turmoil) BUT when this company liquidates, you will have gotten your ultimate reward.

Sort of like Yassir Arafat. I read someplace, upon his death, that he will go straight to heaven to be met by 72 virgins selected especially for him.

In his case, all 72 virgins look exactly like Yassir Arafat. YUCK!
[post="200411"][/post]​

OH NO !!! Osama bin Laden.. Those meat hooks of his could do some real damage!! :rolleyes:
 
PITbull said:
Pittsburgh had a local union meeting yesterday...STANDING ROOM ONLY.

[post="200419"][/post]​

Tell the LECP of PIT that I was sorry I couldn't make it. Too much going on at home getting ready to sell the house if it comes to that. Which is more likely than not. And please give her my sincerest Congratulations on her newly elected position.
I wonder if PHL will ever have another Union meeting???????
 
We are still early in the process 320 and your already talking trash, lets wait until it's done to see what happens...
 
michael707767 said:
You don't seem to get it. Management will keep coming back for more until someone says no. Why not? You (ALPA) have caved everytime they come to you for more. Why do you think they won't use that play book again and again? Mark my words 320pilot, if U somehow makes it through the next few months, they will be back to you for more. Care to take a bet?
[post="200354"][/post]​

Initially I was behind Lakefield, but he continues on with the same team which has a "track record". To say their compensation compares with the models they want us to be like is less than honest. I try not to be emotional but, looking at the folks running the show you can't be very hopeful about the future of US.