Song Flight Numbers

phllax

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
683
10
Los Angeles
Visit site
Does anyone know why Song uses the same flight numbers for both the outbound and retun flights? For example, 2071 does JFK-LAX-JFK & 2004 does FLL-BOS-FLL.

I have seen this before on non-triangle flights on US Airways Express (PHL-STL-PHL). It's seems odd that they would be allowed to do that, especially since Westbound & Southbound flights are generally odd numbered and Eastbound & Northbound flights are even numbered.

One other unrelated question.

The lone mainline flight, a 757, between JFK-LAX leaves around 12:30, which is too early for people connecting from European arrivals. Wouldn't it have been wise to have the 5 or 6 pm deaprture from JFK the last flight to transition to Song so that they could "continue" a european flight to LAX and attempt to sell some of the first class seats, even with a change of aircraft?
 

coolflyingfool

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,192
1
www.usaviation.com
I had never seen and out and back with the same number. Back in the early 90's, I did see a DL flight that went soemthing like LAS-SLC-DFW-ATL-MCO-TPA-ATL. That flight had 2 stops in between and I can see the reasoning for the same flight number, but not with a straight out and back. Just my thoughts.............
 

SVQLBA

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
305
0
www.usaviation.com
Warning -- non-techie speaking:

With the current 4-digit 0-9 flight numbering system and the explosion of code share numbers etc., it is becoming difficult for many of the larger carriers to find numbers for all "their flights." Expect to see more through flight numbering (multiple legs with the same #) and more out and backs with the same flight number as a result. Flight number "conservation."

At some point, carriers globally will have to work out whether they go to 5 digits for flight numbers, hexadecimal (0-F), aphanumeric (0-9, A-Z) or somehow reduce the dependence on code shares.

Any true techies care to comment?
 

DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
SVQLBA is correct. Because of the huge amount of codesharing (AF, NW, CO, KE, AM,etc) and the explosion of RJ flights, DL is simply running out of four digit numbers. Hence, DL has decided to conserve them by using them for both the out and back legs.

As for your LAX-JFK question, I don't think DL really cares about having a connection with F to the European flight bank. DL believes that Song is the wave of the future and by next month all flights on LAX-JFK will be Song. For better or worse, DL has abandoned the premium traffic on this route (and others).
 

funguy2

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,755
0
SVQLBA:

I think you are right. I would also add that we are more likely to see hexi-decimal or alpha numberic before we see 5 digit numbers... I suspect the cost of changing old CRS systems would be very expensive.

Perhaps the alliances will find a way to end the code-sharing part and have future codeshares look more like interlines?

So instead of DL1626 PNS-ATL connecting to DL8517 ATL-CDG (op by AF), they will find a way to list the connection as DL1626/AF123 and retain the benefits of codesharing and CRS display?

Not sure which system would cost less to develop, from the CRS perspective...
 

JS

Veteran
Aug 24, 2002
2,004
1
DFW
Visit site
Part of my job involves designing databases, so the idea of organizing data excites me more than it should. ;)

First of all, there is no rule that airlines use unique numbers, nor is there a rule that the parity (even/odd) be based on the direction of travel. Wake up, it's 2005! :)

As far as I know, an airline could give every single flight in the system the same flight number. The flight number is just one parameter of a given flight that is dealt with quite well in operations.

With ATC, they doesn't accept duplicate flight numbers in use simultaneously (e.g., continuing flight of a delayed arrival using a different aircraft), and not even duplicate flight numbers from different airlines just to avoid confusion. So, even if you renamed all the flight numbers to be 0001, you would still have unique flight numbers with ATC.

Using the same flight number for out-and-back, as well as for the same airplane going hub to spoke to another hub will allow the current system to last for a while. For example, ASA flies from CVG to LEX to ATL, but using DL 4326 for the flight to LEX and then 4354 to ATL. That's a waste of a flight number. Make both of them 4326.