Spirit Management won’t let AMFA have observers?

[WeAAsles]

I thought one of the big selling points for AMFA was how they always had observers in their negotiating sessions? Hard to believe Spirit Management can just tell AMFA NOPE 👎 ain’t gonna happen here.

“The Parties held a three-day bargaining session on February 7-9 in Fort Lauderdale to continue bargaining toward a first collective bargaining agreement (CBA) for the Spirit group. At the outset of Day 1, the Company informed the Committee that it would not allow any observers to attend these negotiations. Your Committee explained to the Company the benefits of having observers attend negotiations, including increasing transparency in the negotiation process. Unfortunately, the Company was unwilling to reconsider its position, and for the foreseeable future Spirit has refused to allow you, its own employees, to observe negotiations. AMFA has nothing to hide from its members in the collective bargaining process. It is worth asking yourself why the Company has chosen to bar you from observing this process”

AMFA-Spirit Negotiations Update #8

September 26, 2023 -- The parties held a bargaining session, September 12–14, in Dallas , and unfortunately, the Company again arrived unprepared, providing only an initial response to one new article over the course of three days.

www.amfanational.org

 

[WeAAsles]

Amazing that AMFA didn’t even clear it with Spirit management before they had these people come over and waste their time. Thankfully it was probably just a small drive as I think all their Mechanics are here in FLL anyway but they could have went to the Mall and enjoyed their day off instead I’m sure.

“We would like to thank all the observers that took the time out of their days to travel to and attend bargaining. We would also like to apologize for the Company restricting your access to the negotiation room”

 

[WeAAsles]

Aw c’mon AMFA what the heck. You still can’t get observers into that room? I thought having observers was one of your big selling points? What the hell are they going to observe in the “Caucus Room”? A bunch of people checking out their Facebook pages waiting for a Company response? BORING…


“The Company continues to maintain its position that you, its own employees, may not attend negotiations as observers; however, AMFA remains completely transparent and if you wish to attend as an observer in the AMFA caucus room, please reach out to your ALR, Jason Salazar, to arrange for attendance as an observer in this respect.”

AMFA-Spirit Negotiations Update #8

September 26, 2023 -- The parties held a bargaining session, September 12–14, in Dallas , and unfortunately, the Company again arrived unprepared, providing only an initial response to one new article over the course of three days.

www.amfanational.org

 

[eolesen]

The Company banning them is the Union's fault?

That's a weak sauce insult, Weazy.

 

[WeAAsles]

The Company banning them is the Union's fault?

That's a weak sauce insult, Weazy.

Are you looking (needing) to try to battle?

The reality is that “Observers” is one of AMFA’s selling points. They claim that for every group they try to organize. They act as if they can guarantee it.

Just pointing out that no they can’t guarantee that.

 

[eolesen]

Fair Point that they can't guarantee it, but the fact remains that they encourage it as part of their culture.

You can't say the same about every other union. Some have a very distinct pattern of withholding how the sausage gets made from the membership.

I know Bob Owens argued for it, but not everybody in the TWU wanted¡ that open kimono.

 

[WeAAsles]

Fair Point that they can't guarantee it, but the fact remains that they encourage it as part of their culture.

You can't say the same about every other union. Some have a very distinct pattern of withholding how the sausage gets made from the membership.

I know Bob Owens argued for it, but not everybody in the TWU wanted¡ that open kimono.

Personally I wasn’t a fan of how the Association gave us updates during our JCBA talks. Mostly it was when the IAM controlled the releases. The hierarchy seems to like doing this song and dance where one update they say they’re making progress and then the next update the Company is Mephistopheles with a pitchfork.

I don’t feel the dramatic updates do anything but make the Membership probably mad at BOTH the Company and the Union. TWU Local 555 is the model I’d like to see. They just say the Articles they’ve agreed to with some small information about them, what they’re working on and when the next negotiations will take place. The APFA is also doing a great job with their updates.

I don’t really agree with observers either. The reason being what happens if a loudmouth nitwit wants to be there? That could be very distracting and counterproductive. I prefer to trust that my negotiators aren’t BSing me.

 

[eolesen]

Dunno... I've been an observer in a mediation, and the rules are pretty explicit: open your mouth and you are removed from the room.

 

[WeAAsles]

Dunno... I've been an observer in a mediation, and the rules are pretty explicit: open your mouth and you are removed from the room.

Negotiations is a lot more boring from what I’ve been told. Mostly just passing proposals back and forth. Union passes a proposal to the Company Reps and they have to take it to another room to discuss it or talk to those in real authority to make decisions. Same when the Company passes something. The Union guys have to take time out to discuss what the Company gave them to see if they can all agree on it.

I actual did turn up one time when they were here in FLL and the Company wasn’t even in the room with them. When they came out the guys went behind closed doors for a little bit and I waited outside the room. They all came out very shortly after and everyone went their ways while I went and had dinner with two friends.

Except for the dinner and beers the other stuff looked pretty boring.

 

[JimmyBop]

Fair Point that they can't guarantee it, but the fact remains that they encourage it as part of their culture.

You can't say the same about every other union. Some have a very distinct pattern of withholding how the sausage gets made from the membership.

I know Bob Owens argued for it, but not everybody in the TWU wanted¡ that open kimono.

"AMFA is unique among unions in allowing member observers to attend this important process. Permitting the members to witness negotiations firsthand is concrete evidence of transparency, which is an important part of AMFA’s philosophy."

Sounds like a guarantee to me...

 

[eolesen]

You lead a sad life if you read that as a guarantee.

 

[WeAAsles]

You lead a sad life if you read that as a guarantee.

I haven’t heard of too many circumstances where the Companies they have members in have let outsiders (observers) join in on the process.

Having fantastic Contracts with both Compensation and job opportunities would be a better selling point.

Admittedly they have one but they’re very weak on the other.

 

[JimmyBop]

You lead a sad life if you read that as a guarantee.

And you must lead a sadder life as a blind AMFA apologist.

 

[eolesen]

Nah, no apologist. Just tired of the TWU lacky crowd here always throwing insults at AMFA when the TWU is pretty much a steaming diaper itself.

Basically it's the number 31 and 32 NFL teams trash talking each other.

 

[WeAAsles]

Nah, no apologist. Just tired of the TWU lacky crowd here always throwing insults at AMFA when the TWU is pretty much a steaming diaper itself.

Basically it's the number 31 and 32 NFL teams trash talking each other.

Your issue with the TWU is a personal one since you’ve said that a long time ago a TWU Rep tried to get you fired.

Now it’s ok if you want to throw shade at the TWU especially since you’re not anyone in a position that matters. But the two Unions shouldn’t be judged by any personal or emotional stories or situations. They should be judged by their contracts and on the amount of members they represent.

On both of those metrics it’s the TWU that is far far superior over AMFA. That’s just facts. TWU has the best M&R Contract in the industry at AA with no reasonable arguments. More Jobs, More Work and the best Job Protection language. TWU represents more AMT’s in one Station alone (TUL) than AMFA represents at ALL their carriers.

Not to mention although the AMFA philosophy (arrogance) doesn’t subscribe to this, TWU represents Fleet and Maintenance at AA, Fleet and Flight Attendants at SWA, Flight Attendants at JetBlue and some other small groups throughout the industry. (#1 or #2 largest Union “maybe” behind IAM in the Industry)

Say what you want from the outside looking in Eolesen but TWU wouldn’t have around 100,000 members in the Airline Industry if they sucked as bad as you (Sour grapes) want to always say they do.

And BTW how about giving me some of AMFA’s “Contract” successes? Except for some cash there just really isn’t a lot of meat 🍖 on that bone.