Station closures

[Hopeful]

Spoke to a buddy in BNA. The word down there is that BNA, along with BDL, HOU and SNA will be the first to close so AA can save some cash on facility costs.

Rumor, maybe, but we will all know within the coming weeks.

 

[Hopeful]

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060405/1268696.html?.v=1

And they just finished interviewing for two maintnenace supervisors at JFK.

 

[1 VF-1 2NV]

Checkerboard system I tell ya !!

 

[MCI transplant]

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060405/1268696.html?.v=1

And they just finished interviewing for two maintnenace supervisors at JFK.

<_< ----Why doesn't this surprise me? Both Tampa, and Orlando are exTWA 25% Stations! Unprotected! They lay these people off they don't have to pay the Twelve, five! It's like walking around with a big target painted on your back! When are these people going to stop screwing with peoples life's???? :rant: I have compassion for those two AMTs that committed suicide in TUL, but how many exTWA employees have you heard of that did the same thing? I know of at least two F/A's! TWU informer says they need help down there in TUL! Will fella wake up!!! We ALL need help! When are we going to put a stop to these mind games this company is playing!!! "Here's a warn letter, but we're really not sure you'll need it! We haven't made our minds up, but you may be gone!!!" I really don't think this type letter is legal anyway! They sure don't follow the intent of the Federal law that mandates such letters to begin with, and I feel the Union should legally take them to task over it!!! :rant:------I know, I know! What Union? :rant: Maybe we should contact our representatives in Congress over this one!!! I sure am!!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

MCI,

Have you been paying attention to this government, do you really think they give a sh*t about the working class?

We also tried to warn you and the rest of MCI what this company and union will do to you, but you got kept believing that your jobs are safe because the "twu said so." Now look were the blind faith has gotten you, layed off or set up to fail as with the case of MCI.

27 more cards and we could of ended the cozy relationship between the twu and the company. Let's not forget MCI had the worst percentage of signed cards in the system because they believed the twu. In fact if TWA was never purchased, the mechanics of AA would have been out of the twu.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI,

Have you been paying attention to this government, do you really think they give a sh*t about the working class?

We also tried to warn you and the rest of MCI what this company and union will do to you, but you got kept believing that your jobs are safe because the "twu said so." Now look were the blind faith has gotten you, layed off or set up to fail as with the case of MCI.

27 more cards and we could of ended the cozy relationship between the twu and the company. Let's not forget MCI had the worst percentage of signed cards in the system because they believed the twu. In fact if TWA was never purchased, the mechanics of AA would have been out of the twu.

<_< AMFAMAN----- Will you stop trying to preach to the chore!!! My card was one of the first signed here at MCI! Now, get your head out of your a$$ and stop thinking about the past! What's done is done, no changing it! Now what are we going to do with the time that we've got left with this company!? And let me remind you, for a lot of us here at MCI, including myself, there's not a whole lot of that left to worry about!

 

[aafsc]

There were suicides at AA in the late 1990s,long before the concessions. I find it hard to believe that someone commits suicide over concessions when they live in a low cost area like TUL and still make $32 an hour (assuming the individual is topped out). Using this logic, there would be more suicides at NWA and UA (AMFA represented) where the mechanics make substantially less than the AA mechanics with no pension, retirement healthcare, and where half (or all in the case of NW) of the AMTs has been laid off or replaced due to the outsourcing of heavy overhaul. The vast majority of working people in this country make far less than $32 an hour and live in places where the cost is substantially higher. There are other possible reasons that these people took their own lives. There are many more issues in life than what your income is. And if the AA AMTs were able to go to AMFA a few years ago, they would have ended up just like the UA and NW AMTs, broken and abandoned.

 

[AMFAMAN]

And if the AA AMTs were able to go to AMFA a few years ago, they would have ended up just like the UA and NW AMTs, broken and abandoned.

Do you have anything factual to support this claim, afterall the concessions were already in place before the cards were filed. Are you saying that AA would have walked away from the contract once AMFA was on the property? Isn't it fact that UAL contract that allowed for the massive layoffs happened under the IAM, the same union that is currently scabbing at NWA and worse yet allows their workers to do striking mechanics work. Is that okay with you?

What's done is done, no changing it! Now what are we going to do with the time that we've got left with this company!?

Not preaching just going over the facts. If MCI is now ready to dump the twu, get in contact with your now layed off organizers and they will know who to contact.

 

[eolesen]

Spoke to a buddy in BNA. The word down there is that BNA, along with BDL, HOU and SNA will be the first to close so AA can save some cash on facility costs.

Rumor, maybe, but we will all know within the coming weeks.

Uh, HOU closed on Monday, along with PVD.

I'm assuming that for the rest you're referring to maintenance only, and not AA station closings. Somehow, I don't see AA shutting down operations in SNA anytime soon.

 

[Bill]

Do you have anything factual to support this claim, afterall the concessions were already in place before the cards were filed. Are you saying that AA would have walked away from the contract once AMFA was on the property? Isn't it fact that UAL contract that allowed for the massive layoffs happened under the IAM, the same union that is currently scabbing at NWA and worse yet allows their workers to do striking mechanics work. Is that okay with you?
Not preaching just going over the facts. If MCI is now ready to dump the twu, get in contact with your now layed off organizers and they will know who to contact.

Just one simple fact to put in this mix, that Delle favored BK and would ahve more than likely gotten us there with his vigilante attitude. Shoot, had amfa gotten in 3/4 of you AAers wouldn't even be on these boards now. HMMMMMM???

 

[aafsc]

Just one simple fact to put in this mix, that Delle favored BK and would ahve more than likely gotten us there with his vigilante attitude. Shoot, had amfa gotten in 3/4 of you AAers wouldn't even be on these boards now. HMMMMMM???

That's right, and once in bankruptcy, AA management would have went for the jugular just as the other legacy managements did and AA employees would have been at parity with the other legacy employees. And all three heavy maintanence bases would have been gone.

 

[Bob Owens]

That's right, and once in bankruptcy, AA management would have went for the jugular just as the other legacy managements did and AA employees would have been at parity with the other legacy employees. And all three heavy maintanence bases would have been gone.

When AA threatened to go BK they showed the union what they would go after if they didnt get the concessions.

The fact is, other than company paid union business they got pretty much everything that was on the list, and then some. So why would BK have been any worse? At least in BK they could have dumped some of that $20 Billion in debt they claim to have.We were the only ones who were severely impacted, for everybody else, the banks, lessors, vendors etc its business as usual.They didnt lose a dime thanks to the fact that the TWU pushed us onto our swords.

One of the things that you forget is that after our Industry leading concessions, where we gave back more than any other carrier , even those in BK, the BK carriers went back to try and get what the TWU gave AA. Over at NWA they are demanding that their employees give what we lost three years ago.

By the way the AMFA mechs at NWA were making considerably more than we are. In fact it will take us another year, assuming those guys went to and stayed at zero income, which is unlikely, before our earnings over the last five years will pass theirs.

Why do you say that all heavy maint would be gone? The fact is that AA enjoyed lower overhaul labor costs than all the other legacy carriers.

 

[aafsc]

When AA threatened to go BK they showed the union what they would go after if they didnt get the concessions.

The fact is, other than company paid union business they got pretty much everything that was on the list, and then some. So why would BK have been any worse? At least in BK they could have dumped some of that $20 Billion in debt they claim to have.We were the only ones who were severely impacted, for everybody else, the banks, lessors, vendors etc its business as usual.They didnt lose a dime thanks to the fact that the TWU pushed us onto our swords.

One of the things that you forget is that after our Industry leading concessions, where we gave back more than any other carrier , even those in BK, the BK carriers went back to try and get what the TWU gave AA. Over at NWA they are demanding that their employees give what we lost three years ago.

By the way the AMFA mechs at NWA were making considerably more than we are. In fact it will take us another year, assuming those guys went to and stayed at zero income, which is unlikely, before our earnings over the last five years will pass theirs.

Why do you say that all heavy maint would be gone? The fact is that AA enjoyed lower overhaul labor costs than all the other legacy carriers.

If I remember correctly, AA renegotiated concessionary contracts with the vendors, lessors, and lenders for the amount of $200 million. As far as your comparison with the NW AMFA AMTs, they made more that the AA AMT for a couple of years, but how will they compare for the next 5 to 10 years since they have been permantly replaced? How will the AA mechanics compare for the next 5 to 20 years to those AMFA members who crossed and who are and will be making substantially less than the AA AMT. With higher pay, pensions and other retirement benefits still intact, it appears to me that the AA AMT is much better off than the average AMT at NW,UA,DL,CO, and US.

 

[Bob Owens]

If I remember correctly, AA renegotiated concessionary contracts with the vendors, lessors, and lenders for the amount of $200 million.

So if all those other costs make up at least 60 to 70% of the operating costs and labor only makes up 30 to 40% how come we gave up nine times more than them? $1.8 billion from us and only $200 million from them. Like I said, they werent affected like we were.

As far as your comparison with the NW AMFA AMTs, they made more that the AA AMT for a couple of years, but how will they compare for the next 5 to 10 years since they have been permantly replaced? How will the AA mechanics compare for the next 5 to 20 years to those AMFA members who crossed and who are and will be making substantially less than the AA AMT. With higher pay, pensions and other retirement benefits still intact, it appears to me that the AA AMT is much better off than the average AMT at NW,UA,DL,CO, and US.

Wrong again.Not if we are talking about lifetime earnings.

You leave out the fact that we have been paying for things like LTD, Pre-funding, and medical benifits for at least 15 years.
Lets not forget the fact that we lose the first year towards our pension.

Then you have to add in that we had the lowest starting rate for years and the longest progressions to top rate. When UAL was hiring at $14 and change with 5 years to top AA was hiring at $11.58 with 12 years to the top.You also leave out the fact that some started as Junior mechanics even though they had two liscences at an even lower rate-$9/hr.


Over time these costs add up to huge numbers. Over a twenty year career at least $60 to $70 k. Then add in the fact that the NWA guys were earning $20k more than us for three years and it comes up to another $60k. So when those guys walked out the door they probably had, over a twenty year period, earned about $120 to $130K more than we did.

 

[FWAAA]

So if all those other costs make up at least 60 to 70% of the operating costs and labor only makes up 30 to 40% how come we gave up nine times more than them? $1.8 billion from us and only $200 million from them. Like I said, they werent affected like we were.

Hey, the represented employees gave up $1.62 billion annually; the other $180 million came from management and support staff ($100 million) and non-represented employees ($80 million) (agents?), so represented employees gave up only eight times more than the vendors and lessors, not nine times as much.

Seriously, your assertion that the vendors and lessors didn't sacrifice as much as the mechanics is just nonsense. For instance, Airplane Rent dropped by about the same percentage as did your pay, and that's not a coincidence. Vendors and lessors demanded that AA achieve savings from the employees, and if AA got those concessions, they would give up similar percentages. From the 2Q2003 10-Q:

The Company's operating expenses decreased 17.1 percent, or $872 million. Wages, salaries and benefits decreased 12.1 percent, or $257 million, primarily due to the Modified Labor Agreements and Management Reductions discussed in Note 2 to the condensed consolidated financial statements. Commissions, booking fees and credit card expense decreased 16.4 percent, or $51 million, due primarily to the benefit from the changes in the commission structure implemented in March 2002 and a 4.6 percent decrease in passenger revenues. Maintenance, materials and repairs decreased 34.4 percent, or $98 million, due primarily to a decrease in airframe and engine volumes at the Company's maintenance bases resulting from a variety of factors including the retirement of aircraft, the timing of sending engines to repair vendors and a decrease in the number of flights; reduced aircraft utilization; and the receipt of certain vendor credits. The Company expects maintenance, materials and repairs costs to increase as aircraft utilization increases and the benefit from retiring aircraft subsides. Aircraft rentals decreased $37 million, or 17.3 percent, due primarily to concessionary agreements with certain lessors and the removal of leased aircraft from service in prior periods. Food service decreased 16.1 percent, or $29 million, due primarily to reductions in the level of food service. Other operating expenses decreased 15.4 percent, or $107 million, due to decreases in contract maintenance work that American performs for other airlines, and decreases in travel and incidental costs, advertising and promotion costs, insurance, and data processing expenses. Special charges for the second quarter of 2003 include (i) a $20 million aircraft related credit to finalize prior accruals, (ii) $49 million in facility exit costs and (iii) $47 million in employee charges. See Note 5 to the condensed consolidated financial statements for additional information regarding Special charges. U.S. government grant includes a $358 million benefit recognized for the reimbursement of security service fees from the U.S. government under the Act.

http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....03-45&SID=03-00 (page 15)

Dunno why AA didn't drive harder bargains with the vendors and lessors. Maybe AA drove them down as far as possible. In fact, that is the case.

How do I know that AA did as good a job as it could in bankuptcy? AA matched UA's cost-savings, without the costs of bankruptcy.

AA's mainline CASM (ex-fuel) of 7.48 cents/mile is almost exactly the same as UAL's CASM (ex-fuel) of 7.46 cents/mile, so bankruptcy didn't accomplish anything for UAL over what AA did outside BK except cancelling the pensions and eliminating heavy airframe overhaul. Oh, that and enriching bankruptcy lawyers, accountants and other advisors to the tune of over $600 million.