Station Weight & Balance VS Centralized Load Planning (CLP)

[Weight&Balance]

OK everyone it's time . Westies have heard that the company is thinking of shutting down the weight and balance (mapper) in favor of the easties CLP system (ALPS).Here is your chance to vote.

Insight to each one of them


West W&B (local stations )is done by having the dispatcher furnish the take off performance numbers to the load planner who would take those numbers and balance his/her flight with passengers/baggage/cargo. They would sent the pre-plan load sheet to the ramp and verbally instruct them if needed.The load planner is be responsible for the loading of the aircraft along with the ramp lead If a problem arises it could be handled with a simple radio call or phone call ie: runway change,additional passengers or bags. Also there is someome who is site able to do manual w&b if the system breaks down.

Mapper older system but could be upgraded to handle widebodies ( West did have 747's ).


East CLP.Based in PIT .Works by historical data collection plans the load plan out based on this info. Dispatcher does a TPS (takeoff performance ) feeds this info into ALPS. The load plan is sent to the ramp automatically. It's now a ramp persons decision what he/she has to load. Passenger service is given passenger restriction and are responsible to monitor the info in the reservations system (RES). If a problem does come to be CLP will tell you how much weight or where the balance issue is. But is becomes a stations responsibility to remove cargo/baggage/passengers from the flight. CLP will not decide for you.CLP will not asked the dispatcher for fuel load decrease.CLP relies too heavily on child weights to get them out of a jam.ALPS system is around 10 years old can do widebodies.But just like mapper time and technology is catching up to it

 

[john john]

Very hard call with all the outsource stations in fleet service and the persons responsible would be in question. I for one use to love doing W/B manual and computerized very fun and demanded job. CLP was AL brain child

 

[wings396]

Put W&B back in the stations, along with our own competent employees already. CLP was the brainchild of a select few at the old US East. I can't even recall the amount of time I alone wasted on the phone with CLP to have them fix or change something that I could have done in a few seconds.
CLP couldn't see what your cargo looked like as far a bulk, and many times their "Plan" wouldn't work. A simple runway change at the last minute required a stupid phone call to fix. CLP bases their load plans on average loads on a given day, which are not always accurate to what you have. When the XXXX hits the fan, they tell you in the station to do your own manual W&B anyway. We had/have many very qualified people in the stations to do this job, but we created a separate department to do it anyway.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Put W&B back in the stations, along with our own competent employees already.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. As for which software to use - don't know enough about the HP system to make a judgement. Our current East system has some wrinkles that make my wonder what it's "thinking" to this day, and how long have we been using it????

Jim

 

[Groucho]

The question is probably academic. The real plan for the future is the paperless cockpit concept as used by SWA and JetBlue. I am sure this is on the horizon, as I have flown with a captain who had one of the demonstrator laptops with him. We had a fed on the jumpseat for several legs for initial evaluation of the system.

The system would place all weight and balance in the cockpit. The agents would give us a close out load and bag /cargo count and the airport data is all in the database. Enter the ATIS data and off you go. Additionally all FOM, JEPPS, and POH data will be on the laptop.

Issues to be resolved are: Method of issuance, ie to the aircraft or to a crew member individually. Method of archiving W/B data. The Feds requrie that each flights data be on file. JetBlue currently has to hand load all this data into ACARS. By the time we get a system it may be possible to use a secure Wi/Fi broadband system.

Why do it? Money!! of course. No more paying for sabre, Jepp revisions become electronic and much cheaper, and yes it does shut down the current weight and balance methodology which is labor intensive. The pay back on this system is supposed to be fairly quick, on the order of 18 to 24 months. It will probably not happen until after the integration as it is just to complicated to attempt while a merger is on-going.

 

[smfav8r]

I for one use to love doing W/B manual

I'd rather do it by hand also....as the old saying goes "The pen is mightier than the jet-fuel!"

 

[luvthe9]

Do it the same as Jet Blue, you never take a W&B delay again, I think SWA does it them self

 

[REACC1]

Very hard call with all the outsource stations in fleet service and the persons responsible would be in question. I for one use to love doing W/B manual and computerized very fun and demanded job. CLP was AL brain child

I agree, it was a GREAT job! Al, of course, fuc..d it up! AGAIN.

 

[ItsJustAJob]

We at PSA do it ourselves (pilots). We input the pax count, the baggage/freight/comat, and fuel. It's all done via ACARS. We get the results in about 5-10 seconds. If we get a runway change or intersection departure it's only a 10 second delay. No waiting, never take a W&B delay. MUCH better than the mainline system. What would be the problem with using a system like ours? You KNOW it has to be cheap, otherwise we would never have something so user friendly and convenient.

 

[Henderfuzz]

[quote name='Weight&Balance' date='Aug 8 2006, 08:13 AM'

I like the CLP system. Its very user friendly. I work in a station now where I see the west system and its like going backwards in time. Ive seen a lot of that from the west latley by the way. I would however like to see the stations take control of the W/B again however.
I also use to work in CLP and most of the people there work with the stations if there is a problem.

 

[Hope777]

I agree going to the West System is a step backwards. Our Station took a delay because the agent could not get the "Trim Sheet" to the crew in time. The old Manager of CLP did go to HP a few years back and I think he still may be there.

 

[muircross]

Don't forget that there are several agents who currently reside in PIT and might be inconvenienced if there was a change. I think the current East system works fine and the west system is archaic.

 

[Weight&Balance]

I agree going to the West System is a step backwards. Our Station took a delay because the agent could not get the "Trim Sheet" to the crew in time. The old Manager of CLP did go to HP a few years back and I think he still may be there.

The God Father of CLP Chuck Henry has been long gone from HP .His personality was less than desirable.

Don't forget that there are several agents who currently reside in PIT and might be inconvenienced if there was a change. I think the current East system works fine and the west system is archaic.

Honestly when did the company care about the inconviences of employees . CLP doesn't work. Planes sit on taxiways for 30 mins to an hour waiting for their weight and balance numbers. They ALPS system may work better than Mapper but the technology need to be in the station operations hands if the present people of CLP want to stay in PIT then transfer to the PIT station. No inconvience just an address change. What will happen when OCC/SOC are merged in either CLT or PHX or perhaps PHL...It won't be PIT ...

 

[Henderfuzz]

The God Father of CLP Chuck Henry has been long gone from HP .His personality was less than desirable.
Honestly when did the company care about the inconviences of employees . CLP doesn't work. Planes sit on taxiways for 30 mins to an hour waiting for their weight and balance numbers. They ALPS system may work better than Mapper but the technology need to be in the station operations hands if the present people of CLP want to stay in PIT then transfer to the PIT station. No inconvience just an address change. What will happen when OCC/SOC are merged in either CLT or PHX or perhaps PHL...It won't be PIT ...

I dont know where your info comes from but planes rarely if ever sit waiting for numbers more than 5 to 10 min. If longer its usually because someone in either ops or c/s didnt close out there part. The CLP system is user friendly. Its also a virtually paperless system. Mapper is too much of a step backwards. When it comes right down to it though it will be about what is the cheapest. So far thats what Ive seen for the West leaders if its cheap its better.

 

[kao]

I dont know where your info comes from but planes rarely if ever sit waiting for numbers more than 5 to 10 min. If longer its usually because someone in either ops or c/s didnt close out there part. The CLP system is user friendly. Its also a virtually paperless system. Mapper is too much of a step backwards. When it comes right down to it though it will be about what is the cheapest. So far thats what Ive seen for the West leaders if its cheap its better.

I can not compare both systems-I have only worked on west MAPPER....yes, it is outdated BUT in my station we have 319s that goes out full almost every day-yeah, hard to nonrev-UA and DL lost their mail contract...we gained it...AA went to EAgle...we gained that too...typically we always have freight....151 bags for 116 pax---you get the picture....hard to stuff it all in...this is a daily issue we have....if/I am hearing when-it goes to CLP, are they gonna work with the contract ramp-whom by then will have taken it over(I am not contract)- on a daily/by flight basis? The east side has all RJs...they leave mail off almost every single day....? Not slamming either system...not sure why they keep downgrading planes both east and west where we clearly have to be losing revenue-we all know mail and frieght is the bread and butter...not our fares...just my opinion...and concern.... :unsure: