Strike? Food for thought

[MCI transplant]

I agree that the TWU should have been more assertive and agressive at getting that work years ago for us but tell me this, at this point does Fleet losing the work make it more or less likely we will ever see it?

I know the TWA guys freak out when they see other carriers coming on our ramp and outsiders doing the work, that didnt happen at TWA. My guess is the IAM had language that the TWU never pursued.

<_<----- Bob, I'm no fan of the IAM, but as far as contract language, we had it all over what you have now!------ Oh, it was far from perfect, but maybe you should read one of our old contracts some time! It may just give you some ideas with the negotiations!!! But it sounds a bet late for that now!------Too bad! 😉

 

[OgieJFK]

What a ridiculous waste of time, energy and money.

I disagree. I think it was worth the fight to try and get the work. I'd rather go down fighting then just roll over for master. I give local 501 president Dave V. a lot of credit for the things he's tried on this issue. If the guy he is running against in the election was president again..cough cough "the used car salesman I like to call Chioaswallow" cough cough...the local 501 company line on the issue would have been "They can do that". At least he tried and got his hands dirty. From what i've been told the local had the full support of the international concerning the issue...till the international lawyer David R. stood in front of the judge and went against the local. I heard the AA lawyers gave David R. a hearty handshake for supporting AA's position.

 

[Hopeful]

I disagree. I think it was worth the fight to try and get the work. I'd rather go down fighting then just roll over for master. I give local 501 president Dave V. a lot of credit for the things he's tried on this issue. If the guy he is running against in the election was president again..cough cough "the used car salesman I like to call Chioaswallow" cough cough...the local 501 company line on the issue would have been "They can do that". At least he tried and got his hands dirty. From what i've been told the local had the full support of the international concerning the issue...till the international lawyer David R. stood in front of the judge and went against the local. I heard the AA lawyers gave David R. a hearty handshake for supporting AA's position.

I agree, Ogie,,,,Dave V. took action.

But at the end of the day...."they can do that brother" will become "Now, they're all going to do that, brother."
When a/c maintenance was part of 501, the local used to tell us "they can do that, brother" with respect to mechanics not doing other carrier's work on AA's ramp. We had to suck it up then, we still suck it up now.

Sadly, i fear that the other carriers on AA's JFK ramp will look for a similar deal as given Qatar.

I would be extremely concerned if i were in fleet service.

 

[OgieJFK]

I agree, Ogie,,,,Dave V. took action.

But at the end of the day...."they can do that brother" will become "Now, they're all going to do that, brother."
When a/c maintenance was part of 501, the local used to tell us "they can do that, brother" with respect to mechanics not doing other carrier's work on AA's ramp. We had to suck it up then, we still suck it up now.

Sadly, i fear that the other carriers on AA's JFK ramp will look for a similar deal as given Qatar.

I would be extremely concerned if i were in fleet service.

I agree Hopeful. When I started at AA 20+ years ago I remember asking a local official why our a/c doesn't handle the contract carriers. I never understood it and thought it divided the union. The answer left me cold and was against everything I was taught growing up in my union household.

As I said I feel bad for Dave V cause this might effect the election results. He is being blamed for the international cutting his sack off...just look at some of the facebook postings. His opponent "Chioaswallow" is running on a ticket called "Restore". I find that funny cause the only thing that will be "restored" is his 3 year vacation. This is a guy who had stewards walk around in 2003 and tell people they had to vote "yes" or they be out of a job. One stewards reward was he was allowed to be on UB for 2 years to be a day trader. He left the company to open a kiddie amusement park on LI with the money he made day trading.

 

[eolesen]

Guys, you really need to do your homework on the ground handling issue. I was able to find this out in less than about ten minutes, yet none of you seem to have bothered, including perhaps the guys at Local 501 who decried what AA was doing without perhaps asking "why" first...


In 2001, the Feds started withholding AIP (airport improvement project) grant money from airports that allowed their tenants to engage in a number of unfair practices, including policies mandating purchasing of services in order to secure gate space on a sublease or 'per turn' basis.

You can start reading here on pages 5 thru 8 on what various airports are having to do regarding subleasing:

http://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/guidance_letters/media/pgl_04_08b_competition_highlights_2010.pdf

So, my suggestion is to give up on the saber rattling -- what you want the company to do simply isn't permissible anymore *if* the going rate for using you guys winds up being more than the going rate for ramp handling at a given airport. And frankly, it's probably unrealistic to expect AA to price your services at less than cost.

 

[strikeforce]

Guys, you really need to do your homework on the ground handling issue. I was able to find this out in less than about ten minutes, yet none of you seem to have bothered, including perhaps the guys at Local 501 who decried what AA was doing without perhaps asking "why" first...


In 2001, the Feds started withholding AIP (airport improvement project) grant money from airports that allowed their tenants to engage in a number of unfair practices, including policies mandating purchasing of services in order to secure gate space on a sublease or 'per turn' basis.

You can start reading here on pages 5 thru 8 on what various airports are having to do regarding subleasing:

http://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/guidance_letters/media/pgl_04_08b_competition_highlights_2010.pdf

So, my suggestion is to give up on the saber rattling -- what you want the company to do simply isn't permissible anymore *if* the going rate for using you guys winds up being more than the going rate for ramp handling at a given airport. And frankly, it's probably unrealistic to expect AA to price your services at less than cost.

Go figure...the Feds are involved in our dispute.

Labor is weak....we are a closed union shop....and carriers like AA should respect that and they don't. At ORD, UAL mechanics service JAL on AA's gates. What's up with that?

Labor's also weak when their own members work for a non-union contractor across the field. Again, the union should tell the company not to allow this conflict of interest. Doesn't matter if it's allowed under company policy or not.

Absolute conflict of interest. I'm gonna go one further......AFL_CIO unions shouldn't cross into each others territory.

 

[eolesen]

The concept of closed shop only applies to YOUR METAL. The fact remains you have no entitlement to impose your contract or your services on a third party in this case.

If BNSF has trackage rights over the UPRR or CN, they don't require a UPRR or CN crew to operate their equipment.

The facts are this: AA doesn't own the building or the pavement, nor do they have an exclusive lease. They have a preferential lease. Legally, it's a whole different scenario from 10 and 20 years ago.

And the reason it changed was that same closed shop mentality which allowed legacy airlines to make it impossible for new entrants to gain access to facility constrained airports by driving up the cost of operating there. It also locked out ground handling companies from being able to compete for business of airlines who didn't have union contracts to contend with....

Sorry that you guys are just now waking up to the fact that the way airports do business with airlines moved on ten years ago... but that train left the station so long ago they already scrapped the engine and turned it into fence posts that are already half rusted in Oklahoma and West Texas...