Thank You To Whom Ever Made This Merger Possible

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Since both carriers flight attendants are AFA/CWA members, the constitutional and by laws which governs the AFA come into play. There is more about this on the AFA/CWA web-site.

The merger representatives shall be responsible for determining the seniority number, the date from which each flight attendant accrues competitive (bidding) seniority as a flight attendant on her/his current seniority list (hereafter "seniority date"), the initial date on which each flight attendant commenced operational training attendant to commencing duties as a flight attendant (hereafter "initial training date"), the number of days after initial training date spent by each flight attendant in initial operational training prior to qualification as a flight attendant (hereafter "training days"), whether the flight attendant accrued seniority for any or all such training days and, if so, the number of days accrued. Such data shall be compiled as of the date of the merger agreement between the affected airlines, unless the merger representatives agree to a later date, provided that use of such later date shall not delay the process for compilation of data. (See note)

Note: It is the intent of this policy that the "seniority date" of a flight attendant shall be the date from which each flight attendant accrues competitive (bidding) seniority as a flight attendant as of the date of the merger agreement between the affected airlines. It is recognized that this seniority date may be different than the flight attendant's initial training date or may have been adjusted for various reasons since the original date on which the flight attendant began to accrue seniority on or after initial training date; in such cases, the "seniority date" is not to be changed back to the original date on which the flight attendant began to accrue seniority.

b. The merger representatives shall strongly urge the respective carriers to make available for inspection and copying all records necessary to ascertain and to verify such information and data, and the merger representatives of each group shall, at the appropriate time, be entitled to examine the data utilized by the other.

c. It is intended that clerical and staff assistance be used to compile this data where practicable and that such data, once compiled, shall be stored by the AFA-CWA office for future use as needed.

d. The merger representatives shall forward a statement of their findings via certified mail, addressee only, return receipt requested, to each flight attendant within sixty (60) days of their appointment. Notices must be posted on each domicile AFA-CWA bulletin board that this statement has been mailed out to each flight attendant and outline the responsibility of the flight attendant to verify or challenge these findings within the allotted time period. In addition, if a newsletter is being published during this time period, the information posted on the bulletin board should be included in it.

e. It is the responsibility of the individual flight attendant to verify or challenge the findings of the merger representatives within thirty (30) days of receipt and to support the protest, if any, by written statement of fact. In addition, such protesting flight attendant may request a hearing before the merger representatives. All timely requests for a hearing will be granted.

f. The merger representatives will receive and evaluate all protests and will adjudge the validity of the claim. Their decision will be final and such decision shall be in writing and shall be forwarded to the flight attendant following completion of the hearing, if any, by the means outlined in Section C.2.d. above.

g. Certified Seniority Lists — Upon completion of the process outlined above, the merger representatives shall promptly and without delay prepare a flight attendant seniority list and shall certify that the list reflects the proper relative position of each flight attendant thereon, and that the information provided is the most accurate information available. The relative position of the flight attendants on their respective seniority lists shall be maintained. Such list shall contain the following information compiled pursuant to Section 2.a. above pertaining to each individual listed: seniority number, name, seniority date, initial training date, training days, whether the flight attendant accrued seniority for any or all such training days and, if so, the number of days accrued.

h. The merger representatives involved in a merger may, by mutual agreement and with the approval of the International President, make adjustments for compilation of employment data and related time limits, using existing policy as a guide, but shall otherwise follow existing policy.

i. The International President may adjust the date for commencing compilation of employment data and related time limits until the International President determines that there is a reasonable probability that the merger will be consummated. The International President may also adjust such date and related time limits until there are reasonable assurances that the affected flight attendants will have access to appropriate labor protective provisions providing for transfer of employment and seniority from one company to another.
 
"DOH. Anything less than that here would be unacceptable." (don't mean to be harsh, just realistic) I'm curious...as a failed airline approaching liquidation, what is your alternative (as was the TWA case). I am truely MISTIFIED as to what is it people think TWA people should have gotten. AA could have just liquidated them and then purchased the skeleton of what remained.
 
firstamendment said:
Could we here from a few AWA people of what THEY think instead of the constant dribble from the AA people on the AWA/US boards?
[post="273869"][/post]​

I have posted this before, but what I really think is that the merger of the workgroups should go by relative seniority. If you are in the 51st percentile at U now, you will be in the 51st percentile once merged. The same for HP. You can change the percentile to any number you wish, the 1st percentile at HP will be in the 1st percentile after the merger.

I fail to see why HP employees, who have been working their butts off to make HP competitive to other carriers and turn profits have to take it on the chin for U employees. That said, I do not want to improve my lot in life at the expense of a U employee, I just want to keep what I have. I don't want PHL or CLT, don't want to go to Europe or the Carribean, I just want what I have.

Frankly, if it wasn't for the DOH stuff I would be enthusiastic about the merger. As it is I am not.
 
hp_fa said:
I have posted this before, but what I really think is that the merger of the workgroups should go by relative seniority. If you are in the 51st percentile at U now, you will be in the 51st percentile once merged. The same for HP. You can change the percentile to any number you wish, the 1st percentile at HP will be in the 1st percentile after the merger.

I fail to see why HP employees, who have been working their butts off to make HP competitive to other carriers and turn profits have to take it on the chin for U employees. That said, I do not want to improve my lot in life at the expense of a U employee, I just want to keep what I have. I don't want PHL or CLT, don't want to go to Europe or the Carribean, I just want what I have.

Frankly, if it wasn't for the DOH stuff I would be enthusiastic about the merger. As it is I am not.
[post="274067"][/post]​


Well said
 
North by Northwest said:
"DOH. Anything less than that here would be unacceptable." (don't mean to be harsh, just realistic) I'm curious...as a failed airline approaching liquidation, what is your alternative (as was the TWA case). I am truely MISTIFIED as to what is it people think TWA people should have gotten. AA could have just liquidated them and then purchased the skeleton of what remained.
[post="273916"][/post]​
<_< Wasn't quit that simple! TWA was deliberatly taken into bankrupcy to get reed of Carl Ichan and his leach Company which was sceaming Aprox $200 mil.@ year, off of TWA's bottom line! (Just my opinon, and that of quit a few exTWAers!) The Seniority issue should have been handeled by the CFL/CIO (IAM/TWU) which both Unions were members! But wasn't!!!!aa couldn't liquidate what they didn't own, then purchase the skeleton of what remained as you said!! :shock:
 
<_< And by the way! aa has just about done that anyway! After the fact! I just hope this merger go'es better than the aa/TWA thing! If not, a lot of people could get hurt! As was the case with TWA!!! Signed: "Just another one of aa's redheaded step children!"
 
North by Northwest said:
"DOH. Anything less than that here would be unacceptable." (don't mean to be harsh, just realistic) I'm curious...as a failed airline approaching liquidation, what is your alternative (as was the TWA case). I am truely MISTIFIED as to what is it people think TWA people should have gotten. AA could have just liquidated them and then purchased the skeleton of what remained.
[post="273916"][/post]​


Nobody can predict the future. To say that we are facing liquidation is an opinion. The only FACING of liquidation was in threats to get the unions to cave. As far as ownership, it is LAKEFIELD of US Airways who has been the most instrumental in gaining the 41% of financing ownership for which I and many HAVE sacrificed DEARLY. Seems to me that 41 and 14 equals 55% part of the "new" US Airways that is contributable by the old US Airways.

Hey listen, this isn't being arrogant, but DOH for at least the f/a's WILL happen, so you Northwest and American "people" need to take your staple pushing opinions and stable them to the bottom of your own behind. I know of just one true airline that can make the claim of not being a heartbeat away from extinction and that is SWA.

KEEP STIRRIN THAT POT!! :lol: :lol:
 
I'm ex-TWA and I've just finished a whole year at AWA. Having been through what I have the last thing I want to happen to USA is what AA did to TWA. It's very sanctimonious for AAers to show up here dictating what they think is "fair". They love to present themselves as white knights but I'm honest enough to know that I have nothing to do with what AWA management does. I'm also honest enough to admit that what's fair for me ain't fair for another so I'm not going to even speculate about what constitutes a fair integration. What is important to me, however, is that the process be fair, ie, ALPA merger policy. Something the TWA pilots were coerced into giving up under threat of losing our whole contract. If the two pilot groups can't come to an agreement it ends up in binding arbitration. That's fair to me even if I don't like the results.

To my USA brethren: I sincerely hope the animosity of previous mergers isn't a player here. If our combined company succeeds we'll both be better off than before. Good luck to us all.
 
exB717Flyer said:
I'm ex-TWA and I've just finished a whole year at AWA. Having been through what I have the last thing I want to happen to USA is what AA did to TWA. It's very sanctimonious for AAers to show up here dictating what they think is "fair". They love to present themselves as white knights but I'm honest enough to know that I have nothing to do with what AWA management does. I'm also honest enough to admit that what's fair for me ain't fair for another so I'm not going to even speculate about what constitutes a fair integration. What is important to me, however, is that the process be fair, ie, ALPA merger policy. Something the TWA pilots were coerced into giving up under threat of losing our whole contract. If the two pilot groups can't come to an agreement it ends up in binding arbitration. That's fair to me even if I don't like the results.

To my USA brethren: I sincerely hope the animosity of previous mergers isn't a player here. If our combined company succeeds we'll both be better off than before. Good luck to us all.
[post="274422"][/post]​
You said that binding arbitration would be fair to you even if you don't like the results. Well the TWA mechanics/ramp/and related GOT binding arbitration as called for in THEIR contract. The arbitrator has ruled and they are very unhappy with his ruling. They have filed grieveances and lawsuits to try to get around the arbitrator's ruling.
 
QUOTE(firstamendment @ May 28 2005, 11:49 AM)
Could we here from a few AWA people of what THEY think instead of the constant dribble from the AA people on the AWA/US boards?




FirstAmendment asked for honest feedback. Here's my take...and this is just my opinion:

I agree with hp fa.... as do many HP union employees. With so many people screaming DOH, HP employees are less than enthusiastic since most will have lower seniority. Frankly, I think many HP employees resent the attitude of DOH being the final word. (Yeah, I know, contracts, bylaws, etc....dont even go there, its already been said frequently on the boards.) Who knows how it will all turn out.

I also think many worry what the combined company will turn out like. Will HP culture get swallowed up in US culture? Will the two groups "fit"? Will HP just disappear into US (albeit one run under new management) Will we all become like a pack of dogs fighting over a bone for jobs? HP employees will be the minority group in the merger, will their voice be heard?

Also, there's the whole pay issue. HP for years was, and still is, one of the lowest paying airlines, in most job areas. Other airlines (not anyone in particular) are/were getting higher pay. Unfortunately, many unions have, and are now, giving back those gains. What happens when (we all hope) the new company makes money? Is everyone going to want their old levels of pay back & scream that "they deserve it for all they gave up in the past"? I'll tell you this, unless the new company becomes like SWA with a gizzillion consequtive quarterly profits, you ain't going to make what you used to make. Won't happen.

Additionally, just like others in the industry, some people question the wisdom of combining HP/US. Is this the right move? Will we (all of us) survive? Doug P seems to be a good leader, and fair, but he's gambling the house on this one. Either he'll be the darling of Wall STreet if this succeeds, or "another failure" in the long history of airline mergers.

Then there's all the details to be worked out in combining two different corporations, cultures, work ethics, ways of doing things....which are time consuming, sometimes difficult, and always a pain in the neck.

Bottom line: Can it work? Yes, I think it can, but will be difficult. My hope is that we can all work together to make it happen in a positive and fair way to all involved.

(OK, now you can throw darts....)

I get befuddled in the sun :blink: ,
Desert Rat
 
DesertRat said:
QUOTE(firstamendment @ May 28 2005, 11:49 AM)
Could we here from a few AWA people of what THEY think instead of the constant dribble from the AA people on the AWA/US boards?

FirstAmendment asked for honest feedback. Here's my take...and this is just my opinion:

I agree with hp fa.... as do many HP union employees. With so many people screaming DOH, HP employees are less than enthusiastic since most will have lower seniority. Frankly, I think many HP employees resent the attitude of DOH being the final word. (Yeah, I know, contracts, bylaws, etc....dont even go there, its already been said frequently on the boards.) Who knows how it will all turn out.

I also think many worry what the combined company will turn out like. Will HP culture get swallowed up in US culture? Will the two groups "fit"? Will HP just disappear into US (albeit one run under new management) Will we all become like a pack of dogs fighting over a bone for jobs? HP employees will be the minority group in the merger, will their voice be heard?

Also, there's the whole pay issue. HP for years was, and still is, one of the lowest paying airlines, in most job areas. Other airlines (not anyone in particular) are/were getting higher pay. Unfortunately, many unions have, and are now, giving back those gains. What happens when (we all hope) the new company makes money? Is everyone going to want their old levels of pay back & scream that "they deserve it for all they gave up in the past"? I'll tell you this, unless the new company becomes like SWA with a gizzillion consequtive quarterly profits, you ain't going to make what you used to make. Won't happen.

Additionally, just like others in the industry, some people question the wisdom of combining HP/US. Is this the right move? Will we (all of us) survive? Doug P seems to be a good leader, and fair, but he's gambling the house on this one. Either he'll be the darling of Wall STreet if this succeeds, or "another failure" in the long history of airline mergers.

Then there's all the details to be worked out in combining two different corporations, cultures, work ethics, ways of doing things....which are time consuming, sometimes difficult, and always a pain in the neck.

Bottom line: Can it work? Yes, I think it can, but will be difficult. My hope is that we can all work together to make it happen in a positive and fair way to all involved.

(OK, now you can throw darts....)

I get befuddled in the sun :blink: ,
Desert Rat
[post="274461"][/post]​

DesertRat, your concerns are totally justified. Nobody is certain how this is going to turn out. One thing is for certain, if the employee groups start fighting about DOH the airline might as well write its obituary. I don't agree with DOH if it creates a windfall for one group over another. Clearly, this is a problem when you have a senior workforce trying to combine with a junior one. What should probably happen is what hp_fa is stating -- percentile integration. It has to be fair, but reality says it probably won't seem that way to many people. Good luck to all!
 
Just look at the U pilot group . Just a bunch of old men and a few old women . Even the F/O's are old, fat and bald. I read not long ago the average pilot age at U is 53.2 years old and the youngest pilot on the property is 41 .

By the time the fences that will be placed expire the majority of the U pilots will be gone . Most of the A350 Captain slots will be current HP pilots IMHO.
 
savyinvestor said:
DOH will be a catastrophe for the HP F/A. Anything less than a blend will destroy the new company IMHO. Savy
[post="274495"][/post]​

There can't be a blend because of the AFA by-laws. National AFA will not sign off on a merger of lists if it goes against their charter.
There is a fix though. It's called a fence. This can be put up around each F/A Dom. No HP F/A can bid into an AAA Dom. for X years. Like wise, no AAA F/A can bid into a HP base for X. X would be up to the two groups to agree to. Say 8 years for example. Nat. AFA would sign off on this, because both groups would still have their DOH. And I use 8 years as an example. It could be anything.
 
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