The airline of the future: Could it be Continental?

Borescope

Veteran
Jan 10, 2003
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Borescope,
Though I don't think AA is 3 times as large as CO, your point is well taken.

I'll take my chances ANY DAY, ANY TIME, on a carrier like AA, with 6 "extra large" ($$$) in hand.

Might be why AA has NEVER "took a stroll" down BK lane !!

NH/BB's
Times have changed. Back when CO filed BK the 1st time, they had Lorenzo. He would no way in hell have negioated with the employees like the airlines do today. So there wasn't a choice. I seem to remember a few years back when AA was on the court steps with BK papers in hand. The employees stepped up to stop that from happening. Point is, managements at most airlines are different today than they were 5 - 10 years ago. Yes, AA has more econmies (SP?) of scale than CO or other smaller airlines do. But, they can also lose money like everyone else. 3rd qtr results case in point. No loss, but what happened to the profit when you see CO and UA put up such big numbers? I hope that isn't a sign of things to come in the 4th.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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Times have changed. Back when CO filed BK the 1st time, they had Lorenzo. He would no way in hell have negioated with the employees like the airlines do today. So there wasn't a choice. I seem to remember a few years back when AA was on the court steps with BK papers in hand. The employees stepped up to stop that from happening. Point is, managements at most airlines are different today than they were 5 - 10 years ago. Yes, AA has more econmies (SP?) of scale than CO or other smaller airlines do. But, they can also lose money like everyone else. 3rd qtr results case in point. No loss, but what happened to the profit when you see CO and UA put up such big numbers? I hope that isn't a sign of things to come in the 4th.


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Borescope,

You'll get NO arguement from me.
CO has manuvered the (land)Mine field Very well !

Keep it up !

NH/BB's
 

AstroLounge

Veteran
Oct 10, 2005
1,491
213
I'll take it one step further.

If CO did'nt have their lone "Gem", EWR, nobody would look at them, in my opinion !!

NH/BB's
You have got to be kidding. Houston is a good hub location and has a population and business environment to bring in alot of traffic. The metro Houston area is in the Top 5 population centers and is a better situated hub for Mexican/Latin and Southern hemisphere destinations than even DFW.
 

TheWatcher

Senior
Aug 26, 2002
342
0
You have got to be kidding. Houston is a good hub location and has a population and business environment to bring in alot of traffic. The metro Houston area is in the Top 5 population centers and is a better situated hub for Mexican/Latin and Southern hemisphere destinations than even DFW.

Shhhh, dont let the secret out. We dont want all those ultra-liberal NE Yankees moving in here :lol: :lol:
 

Vikedog64

Senior
Jan 29, 2003
256
0
Borescope,
Though I don't think AA is 3 times as large as CO, your point is well taken.

I'll take my chances ANY DAY, ANY TIME, on a carrier like AA, with 6 "extra large" ($$$) in hand.

Might be why AA has NEVER "took a stroll" down BK lane !!

NH/BB's
If oil hits 80 dollars per barrel, we will all be taking a stroll through Chapter 11. Don't be so confident NHBB. Fortunes can turn quickly..
 

MiAAmi

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
1,490
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www.usaviation.com
Borescope,
Though I don't think AA is 3 times as large as CO, your point is well taken.

I'll take my chances ANY DAY, ANY TIME, on a carrier like AA, with 6 "extra large" ($$$) in hand.

Might be why AA has NEVER "took a stroll" down BK lane !!

NH/BB's

With AA rated at the bottom of the list for service across the atlantic, I wouldn't be so quick to discard CO's edge in the atlantic market. AA has not been maintaining their fleet and the interiors (specially the 757's) look like crap. Business Class on AA is the worst and we (AA) have a long road ahead if we are to change our premium class passengers perception of us. Touting real salt and pepper shakers is a joke. CO is way ahead of AA in service perception and has a more impressive international network. With all that cash on hand I would be more impressed if AA would reinvest in our product.
 

LCC_#1

Veteran
Nov 16, 2005
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As a former PI employee, I must say it was Gordin Bethune that should ALWAYS be credited for the turn a round at CAL. Why? I remember the pre GB CAL. An old roommate of mine works for CAL and if you think there is a lot of self loathing at airlines like LCC, meet the old CAL. GB was masterful in changing that.

It was GB who saw the potential in EWR and mastered the gates for terminal at LGA with US Airways. BTW, PI had a respectable presence at EWR and could had very well hubbed or grown there had the USAir merger not taken place.

GB understood the importance of O&D traffic. US finally learned it when they opened up PHL...another delay ridden city but the gem of US Airways. There was so much concentation on LGA and JFK that everyone forgot about Sewark and look now..You can now get from Manhattan to EWR in 20 minutes making it a much more desirable air port for Manhattanites and tourist.

I really believe GB understood the importance of offering EWR has an alternative to JFK. It's no secret of JFK's reputation (then anyway) and CAL was masterful in persuading travelers to avoid JFK.

Also, EWR WAS a trashy place, but I have BEEN thru the CAL facilities and they ARE nice and despite the delays, this is not your mother's Newark.

CAL is sleek, clean, modern, and knows the value of the biz traveler like none other.

In fairness, all the airlines with a large extensive network in the New York City Metro get much more attention from the press and media...especially the travel mags. You have a small carrier in ATL called Airtran that has a great reputation but almost NEVER gets the credit or exposure of say, a Jetblue. I could say the same for Midwest, Frontier, and Alaska. CAL has done a great job exploiting that.

CAL is smart, competitive, and silently aggressive and they have embraced the cities they hub in as opposed to alienating them.

CAL gives me hope for the company I work for. If CAL can do it, so can all the others. I say GREAT JOB, CAL!! :)
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
Over at AA the company keeps comparing AA to Continental and wants maintenace at AA to be as productive as Continentals, the only thing is they dont want to match the pay and benifits of Continentals which is higher even though they are a company that has gone BK twice!

So why did the workers at AA give up everything to stay out of BK?
 

formeraa

Advanced
Jun 21, 2003
146
0
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Borescope,

You'll get NO arguement from me.
CO has manuvered the (land)Mine field Very well !

Keep it up !

NH/BB's

NH/BB, you may remember this: Uncle Bobby called it in the early 90's in one of his "annual" employee meetings. Mr. Crandall pointed out the trend toward "value" pricing: 39 cent tacos, 99 cent hamburgers, etc. At the time, he pointed out that AA was more like the Ritz-Carlton, when people wanted Motel 6 pricing.

His biggest fear was not Southwest (the Motel 6 of the airline industry), but Continental who had the yet untapped potential to put out full service at very low costs (because of multiple bankrupticies). He was afraid that CO would "get it all together" which of course they subsequently did.

So, looking back down the corridors of time, Uncle Bobby called it. He was an amazing guy, no doubt!