The Answers To Ken's Questions

[James T. Kirk]

Name: James C. Little
Email: Transportation Workers Union, Air Transport Director
Employer: International Administrative Vice President
Station:
Date: Thursday July 29, 2004
Time: 05:36:52 PM

Comments
The following is a response from Jim Little to an AMFA organizer at American Airlines.

Ken:

I received your list of questions regarding the TWU’s recent mailing. I understand that you also posted the email on numerous Internet bulletin boards.

At the outset of this letter, I want you to know that this will be the last time I respond to you during this AMFA raid. I answered several of your emails in recent months, in addition to speaking to you on the phone. Since we keep rehashing the same old issues, I will not respond further. Enough arguing. In the next few weeks it will be time for AMFA to show its cards. If and when AMFA has collected enough cards, I am confident the TWU will win an election.

QUESTIONS REGARDING TWU:


QUESTION #1: Did the TWU keep three maintenance bases open? Shouldn’t the credit go to the taxpayers and the local city governments that put together financial incentive packages, giving millions of dollars to American Airlines in Tulsa and at MCI.

ANSWER #1: Ken, when we negotiated the restructuring agreement that kept American Airlines out of bankruptcy, we let the company know that we were serious about saving jobs. Arpey knows that we have the power to make this company sink or swim. The TWU’s preference is for the company to swim with all three maintenance bases open and our members’ jobs protected.

Keeping all three bases open has been one of my top priorities. It is not only important to our members on the overhaul bases; it is also crucial for thousands of members at line stations who would be bumped if the bases shut down. By avoiding bankruptcy, we stopped American from implementing plans to downsize Tulsa and shut down MCI and AFW – and eliminate 12,000 jobs.

Even after we eliminated the bankruptcy threat, American continued to threaten to close one of the three bases. We kept the pressure on management, and with the help of the AFL-CIO, we bombarded Arpey with thousands of emails demanding that all three bases be kept open.

As you have noted, we also got city and state officials to help us keep the bases open in Tulsa and Kansas City. This didn’t just happen on its own. With the help of the AFL-CIO, we reached out to the public officials and worked with them to ensure that the bases remained open.

With regard to these efforts, I wish you had read our first mailing that explained the benefits of AFL-CIO affiliation and political involvement. Unlike AMFA, we are fully engaged in the political process and wield considerable political influence. It is through this involvement that we successfully convinced state and local leaders to support our members’ interests. We fought to get the tax initiative passed in Tulsa and the bond initiative passed in Kansas City. If you don’t believe that the TWU played a critical role in getting these initiatives passed, start reading the newspapers.


QUESTION #2: Did the TWU really save 12,000 jobs across the system including bases, line stations and Title II. How many AMT’ jobs have been saved and how many have been laid off? Lay offs are not so much the fault of any particular union. What should be faulted is a union’s inability or failure to fight against layoffs. TEAMTWU has blamed AMFA for losing the Force Majeure I arbitration. The point is that AMFA fought for the membership. Where’s the TWU’s Force Majeure case?

ANSWER #2: When we averted bankruptcy, we saved 12,000 jobs. That includes more than 2,000 Title II members (I note you express no concern for Title II), as well as cleaners, and other support personnel that are part of the mechanic and related craft or class. As for AMTs, the company had every intention of going to bankruptcy court and laying off all AMTs junior to 1989. Thus far in the UAL and USAIR bankruptcies the Companies have gotten everything they have asked for, and I have no doubt that AMTs would have been decimated if we had allowed American to go into bankruptcy.
I disagree with your suggestion that layoffs are not the fault of a union. To the contrary, the real question is whether a union is able to develop a successful strategy to save jobs. In my answer to Question #1, I outlined how the TWU successfully implemented a strategy to minimize layoffs by avoiding bankruptcy, pressuring the company, and working with state and local government to provide additional funds to protect jobs.
I guess you just excuse the fact that AMFA lost almost 50% of its members’ jobs since becoming the bargaining representative at Northwest. Time and time again, I hear AMFA try to avoid responsibility for these job losses and blame the IAM. But the facts are clear. Under an AMFA negotiated agreement at Northwest, almost 50% of AMFA’s jobs are gone, and AMFA is unlikely to ever get those jobs back.

In fact, Northwest was the only major airline that has not recalled any mechanics that were laid off because of September 11, 2001. As you know, AMFA submitted a Force Majeure case to an arbitrator and lost. With the loss of Force Majeure I, those jobs are gone forever.

By the way, the TWU is pursuing some force majeure issues that will be presented next month. But unlike AMFA, since most of our members who were laid off due to the September 11 attack have been recalled, our issues are focused on getting back pay for the period when our members were laid off.


QUESTION #3: American Airlines reduced outsourcing in 2003 while other major carriers increased outsourcing. What about the outsourcing of Cabin Service? What about the outsourcing of AMT work (air starts, push-backs and de-icing), to the Ramp? If my work is taken from me it does not matter who does it, I LOST work. Why did the TWU allow a Maintenance Special Items Work Card, SIC 1900, to be outsourced to the vendor? This work card had an AMT replace the entertainment tape inside the tape reproducer on AA aircraft. Now we do not. I believe Rockwell Collins does this work. This is outsourcing. Why do you not address this in the flyer?

ANSWER #3: Ken, you don’t seem to question the fact that American reduced outsourcing in 2003 while other major carriers including, Northwest and United, increased outsourcing. The TWU’s success with reducing outsourcing is demonstrated by the fact that we have maintained all of American’s heavy maintenance capacity, kept all of our heavy checks in-house, and as we speak, we are aggressively moving to keep all overseas light checks done in-house at the line stations. In addition to these significant accomplishments, our success with keeping work in-house is clearly documented in the Department of Transportation’s 2003 outsourcing data.

As for Overnight Cabin Service, Title III does the vast majority of this work. It is unfortunate that when faced with bankruptcy, the Title III group agreed to outsource this work. However, I find it ironic that you focus on this group since AMFA has consistently attempted to exclude this group from the mechanic and related classification.

In reference to the SIC 1900 card, the TWU at the Local or International level did not agree to this work being outsourced. In fact, my International staff assigned to AA has been working with some TWU Local officers to bring this work back in-house.
Despite the TWU’s success with restricting outsourcing, you are dissatisfied because YOU LOST WORK. Ken, your comments typify the AMFA mentality that the union is about “me†instead of being about “us.†Yes, you can attack the TWU for allowing (in 1983) air starts, push-backs and de-icing to be shifted from TWU represented AMTs to TWU represented ramp workers. But in my book, that’s a hell of a lot better than seeing thousands of jobs shipped to non-union and foreign contractors. Again, all of American’s heavy checks are being done in-house by TWU mechanic and related workers. In comparison, the last time I checked at Northwest, 8 out of 12 heavy checks were being outsourced to non-union domestic contractors and contractors in Asia.


QUESTION #4: By avoiding bankruptcy, American’s financial position is stabilized and the company is making a small profit. Well, a big difference of opinion here Jim. Are we making a profit or not? Who are the TWU leaders listening to? Hopefully not the same people who looked over the company's books prior to the concession package. You know, the people who seemed to have overlooked that tiny SERP fiasco.

ANSWER #4: In the third quarter 2003 reporting period that ended on September 30, 2003, American Airlines reported a $1 million profit. This compares to a $924 million loss during the same period in 2002. If you think these numbers are bad for our members, then we have a much different vision with regard to what is in our members’ interests.

Yes, Don Carty did attempt to secretly enrich top managers with special bonuses and supplemental pensions. No expert for any union found this out because it was not filed with the SEC until April 16, 2003. You seem to forget that we caught Carty ripping off the company and the TWU and AFL-CIO played a major role in his resignation. In addition to stripping Carty and senior management of their bonuses, we used this incident to leverage profit sharing for our members and an early contract re-opener that is now just two years away. Ken, by the way, when the TWU was challenging management at AMR’s last annual meeting, where was AMFA?

QUESTIONS REGARDING AMFA:


QUESTION #1: AMFA lost 20,000 jobs – including more than 6,000 mechanic and related craft and class at United. Again, why does this flyer not continue to inform the reader that these jobs were a direct result of industrial unions, ( IAM, IBT), lousy/poor contract language? It was industrial union negotiated contract language that AMFA inherited at the airlines they represent. Go ahead and point out NWA's laying off AMTs at their Class II Maintenance Stations. AMFA fought against this and had NWA restaff! Just like AMFA's FM cases. They fought for the membership. Just like in life Jim, when you fight you win some, and you lose some. But if you don't fight you lose them all.

ANSWER #1: Ken, when you talk about Northwest, you play an interesting game. AMFA is quick to take credit for the wage rates that it negotiated in 2001, but all of the jobs lost between 2001 and 2004 are the IAM’s fault. These lost jobs and the closure of the Atlanta maintenance base occurred under an AMFA negotiated contract, not an IAM contract. Your argument simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

At United, two bases were shut down and 6,000 maintenance and related jobs were lost while the IAM was the bargaining agent. But those are not all of the facts. As you are well aware, the base closures and jobs lost at United occurred when the company went into bankruptcy. What you prefer to ignore is that while AMFA was not the bargaining representative at United, AMFA activists were a significant force on United’s property urging IAM members to reject a restructuring agreement that would have kept the company out of bankruptcy. The AMFA organizers told the machinists that they would be better off taking their chances in bankruptcy rather than accepting an IAM negotiated restructuring agreement that included a 7% pay cut.
Unfortunately, the machinists made the decision to take the advice of the AMFA organizers. This caused the company to go into bankruptcy and created the circumstances where 6,000 jobs were lost and two maintenance bases were shutdown.

Two years later, AMFA organizers had the very same advice for TWU members who faced bankruptcy at American Airlines. AMFA supporters urged our members to reject the restructuring agreement, but unlike United, our members made the right decision. If our members had taken AMFA’s advice, I have no doubt that we would have lost two bases and thousands of mechanic and related jobs throughout the AA system.


QUESTION #2: Two Maintenance Overhaul bases closed in Oakland and Indianapolis. Why don't you write in this flyer that it was under the IAM that these bases were closed. That AMFA was NOT on the property at UAL when the language was written to allow these bases to be close. Why don't you explain to the readers that the AMTs at UAL at these bases were placed on Authorized No Pay, ANP, which effectively removed these AMTs from payroll. They were not fired they just did not come to work or get a check. Kinda like creative TWU terminology for laid off. Well, while on this ANP these AMTs were NOT permitted to vote on concession language that allowed the OUTSOURCING of their very jobs? Why is this information not included in the TWU flyer?

ANSWER #2: Again, the IAM may have been the bargaining representative when the Oakland and Indianapolis bases were closed, but AMFA was in the middle of its organizing drive and was urging mechanic and related workers to make poor, short-sighted decisions. There is no doubt that the fate of the Oakland and Indianapolis bases were sealed when mechanic and related workers followed the no concessions under any circumstance “better off in bankruptcy†advice of AMFA’s organizers and took the company into bankruptcy. As for the ANP issue, the IAM, in fact, successfully sued UAL on this matter, but the bottom line was the same – in bankruptcy the bases were closed and the jobs and work was lost forever.


QUESTION #3: Unlimited outsourcing of heavy maintenance -- including a new $2 billion contract to Pratt & Whitney. This was language negotiated by the IAM and not AMFA. AMFA simply inherited bad contract language.

ANSWER #3: Nice try Ken, but your facts are wrong. The $2 billion contract that United signed with Pratt & Whitney was signed in January 2004. That’s six months after AMFA became the bargaining representative at United. Moreover, as stated above, it was the AMFA organizers who urged the machinists to reject a restructuring agreement and go into bankruptcy. AMFA made the bankruptcy bed. Unfortunately for United’s workers, now they are lying in that bed.

By the way, you claim that this outsourcing is because AMFA inherited the IAM’s bad contract language. For argument’s sake, at United, let’s say that AMFA might have negotiated the 38% outsourcing limits that it negotiated at Northwest. Would AMFA’s “great†contract language have stopped any outsourcing at United. Not a chance. AMFA’s 38% outsourcing limit is such a big hole, United could drive more than 1/3 of its entire fleet through it.


QUESTION #4: United’s pension is under-funded – currently asking Congress for a bailout. Why do you once again try to depict this as a fault of AMFA's? It is because of bad management that pensions are under funded.

ANSWER #4: United’s financial problems were not just caused by bad management. I think is fair to acknowledge that our industry was deeply shaken by the events of September 11, 2001. The key question is whether pensions at United would be any safer if the company had not gone into bankruptcy. Any bankruptcy lawyer in the country would agree with me in stating that workers’ pensions would be safer if the company was out of bankruptcy. That’s why I believe AMFA played such a destructive role when its organizers urged machinists to reject a restructuring agreement that would have kept the airline out of bankruptcy.

Speaking of pensions, I should note that the TWU pensions at American Airlines are the best pensions in the industry. Moreover, our pension fund is significantly better funded than Northwest, United and any of the other major legacy carriers.


QUESTION #5: United is imposing new medical costs imposed on retirees. Are you trying to say that AMFA is at fault for UAL trying to screw retirees? UAL is trying to raise these costs to retirees not AMFA. As a matter of fact AMFA is fighting for these retirees. That is exactly what I want from a union. I want them to fight for me while I am employed and while I am retired.

ANSWER #5: While it is United that is demanding that retirees pay more than $700 per month for healthcare, it was AMFA that told the mechanic and related workers to reject a restructuring agreement that would have kept retiree medical intact and take their chances in bankruptcy. The only reason why United is able to demand these concessions from retirees is that the company is in bankruptcy. That’s why the mechanic and related workers at United are so vulnerable. As for AMFA fighting to protect retirees, it is the AFL-CIO unions who have taken the lead. AMFA has done nothing on its own.
Ken, over and over again, your questions focus on bad things that resulted from United going into bankruptcy. Why don’t you finally admit that we made the right decision to keep American out of bankruptcy?

QUESTION #6: United wasted $71 million in the bankruptcy process?

ANSWER #6: Another downside to bankruptcy is that the lawyers and the consultants are the only winners. If bankruptcy had been avoided at United, perhaps that $71 million would have been better used for retiree healthcare.

You ask why we do not write to the members that 3000 AMT’s did not receive pins. That is just inaccurate, and it was further stipulated in the July 2. 2003 (Southern District of New York) court decision by Judge Preska. In fact, after review it was determined that 467 Line C/C did not receive pin numbers, and after the clerical problem was solved eventually 224 did vote. The court also found that error was “clerical and administrative rather that some intentional action on the part of the Unionâ€

Ken, these are the answers to all of your numbered questions. While I realize you ranted off some additional questions at the end of your email, I feel that I have invested more than enough of my time in this exercise.

As I said at the beginning of this response, this is my final note to you for the remainder of this attempted raid. Once AMFA is defeated, I hope we can have more constructive discussions on how we can work together to make the TWU a stronger union.

Sincerely and fraternally,
James C. Little,
Air Transport Director
International Administrative Vice President

 

[Rusty]

1. The ineligibility of 24 retired employees, Attachment B to Investigator’s Rulings;
2. The ineligibility of 20 employees, who have resigned, Attachment C to Investigator’s Rulings;
3. The ineligibility of 144 Fleet Service Clerks, Attachment E to Investigator’s Rulings;
4. The ineligibility of 89 former employees laid-off while on probation without any recall rights, Attachment F to Investigator’s Rulings (AMFA’s Exhibit E – Probationary Layoff –No Recall Rights), (AA’s Exhibit E – Employees laid off from probation);
5. The ineligibility of 4 Management Employees, Attachment G to Investigator’s Rulings;
6. The ineligibility of 1 Former TWA Employee Without an Employer-Employee Relationship With AA And Without Recall Rights, Attachment H to Investigator’s Rulings;
7. The ineligibility of 24 Former Employees Working At Other Airlines, Attachment I to Investigator’s Rulings;
8. The ineligibility of 25 Furloughed Employees Who Have Waived/Declined Recall, Attachment K to Investigator’s Rulings;
9. The ineligibility of 1 Employee Working Outside the Craft or Class, Attachment L to Investigator’s Rulings;
10. The ineligibility of 1 Terminated Employee, Attachment M to Investigator’s Rulings;
11. The ineligibility of 249 Fleet Service Fuelers, Attachment N to Investigator’s Rulings, (AMFA’s Exhibit M – Fleet Service Fueler), (AA’s Exhibit M – Fleet Service Clerk/Fuelers), (AA’s Addendum to Exhibit M, Fuelers);
12. The ineligibility of 366 Cleaners and 149 Janitors, (AMFA’s Schaible (2) Decl. and Schaible (3) Decl);
13. The ineligibility of 244 Miscellaneous Other Exclusions contained within Declarations accompanying AMFA’s April 22, 2004 Challenges and Objections, which were not considered in the Rulings,
a. The ineligibility of 10 additional retired employees not considered in the Rulings,
b. The ineligibility of 104 additional employees who have resigned not considered in the Rulings,
c. The ineligibility of 4 additional Fleet Service Clerks not considered in the Rulings,
d. The ineligibility of 6 additional former employees laid-off while on probation without any recall rights not considered in the Rulings,
e. The ineligibility of 5 additional management employees not considered in the Rulings,
f. The ineligibility of 21 additional Former TWA Employees Without an Employer-Employee Relationship With AA And Without Recall Rights not considered in the Rulings,
g. The ineligibility of 12 additional Former Employees Working At Other Airlines not considered in the Rulings,
h. The ineligibility of 3 additional Deceased Employees not considered in the Rulings,
i. The ineligibility of 65 additional Furloughed Employees Who Have Waived/Declined Recall not considered in the Rulings,
j. The ineligibility of 7 additional Terminated Employee not considered in the Rulings,
k. The ineligibility of 8 additional miscellaneous individuals ineligible for various reasons and not considered in the Rulings.
14. The ineligibility of 1,167 Cabin Cleaning and Lavatory Service Personnel, Attachment O to Investigator’s Rulings,
a. 15 duplicates not removed from Attachment O,
b. 2 additional duplicates not removed from Attachment O,
c. 28 names on eligibility list not removed from Attachment O,
d. 2 names removed from Attachment O but not removed from eligibility list,
e. Double counting of 14 individuals alleged to be Cabin Cleaning and Lavatory Service Personnel who have been counted as Fuelers,
f. 5 ineligible AA employees should not have been added to the AA eligibility list,
g. 1,167 Ineligible Fleet Service Clerks.
15. The ineligibility of 21 Former TWA Furloughees, Attachment P to Investigator’s Rulings;
16. The ineligibility of 46 Individuals from AMFA’s May 24, 2004 Submission, Exhibit “O†entitled “AA Eligibility List – TWA Exhibit D – Additional Info Acquired From,†not considered in the Rulings;
17. The ineligibility of 36 additional retired employees from Flagship News not considered in the Rulings;
18. The ineligibility of 150 additional TWA employees Not on TWU’ Exhibit D and therefore without contractual recall rights, not considered in the Rulings;

 

[twuer]

Reuters
UAL to Miss More Pension Payments
Friday July 23, 5:07 pm ET
By Meredith Grossman Dubner

CHICAGO (Reuters) - United Airlines said on Friday it plans no further
pension payments this year, angering unions who fear the carrier could
scrap their retirement plans altogether to lower costs and attract badly
needed investors.

The No. 2 U.S. airline told a bankruptcy court judge that plans to hold
off on a $404 million contribution in September and a $91 million
contribution in October will give it more flexibility to manage its
overall assets.

"It's a step to reduce our costs and attract the financing we're going
to need to exit bankruptcy," Chief Financial Officer Jake Brace told
reporters.

The company did not say when the payments would be made, but demoralized
workers fear they will never get that money.

United, a unit of UAL Corp., deferred a $72 million pension payment last
week, prompting speculation of deeper cuts.

"While United's action falls short of an outright termination of the
pension plans, the company's actions make termination of the pension
plans likely," Greg Davidowitch, president of the Association of Flight
Attendants, said in a statement.

The International Association of Machinists said it was exploring legal
action. "We want to know if United is trying to dump its pension
obligations on U.S. taxpayers as another way to get the federal
government to finance its bankruptcy following their failed bid to
receive a loan guarantee," Robert Roach, IAM general vice president,
said in a statement.

Separately, United told the bankruptcy court it had arranged an
additional $500 million in debtor-in-possession financing to keep
operations going during restructuring.

The airline, which has been in Chapter 11 since December 2002, has until
June 30, 2005, to repay the loans. Lenders include General Electric Co's
GE Commercial Finance, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., Citigroup Inc. and CIT
Group Inc.

The company also received another 30-day extension to file its
reorganization plan but said it will likely seek a "multi-month"
extension in August.

United was denied a $1.1 billion government loan guarantee last month,
forcing it to restructure plans for securing bankruptcy exit financing
and putting immediate pressure on the Elk Grove, Illinois-based company
to reduce ballooning pension costs.

United has four employee pension plans which now are underfunded by
about $4.1 billion over the next five years.

"Because United's existing pension funding obligations will remain a
huge financial burden after exit, it is incumbent on United to study all
possible options and to determine whether United can sustain this burden
and still attract exit financing," the company said in an update to the
court on its reorganization.

Randy Clerihue, a spokesman for the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the
federal agency that insures corporate pensions, said it was rare for
bankrupt companies that skip contributions to make up the shortfall.
"Obviously it heightens concern," Clerihue said. "It's not a foregone
conclusion that plans terminate, but we don't often see those plans
riding through without those shortfalls corrected."

US Airways terminated its pilots' pension to exit bankruptcy last year.
Airlines, particularly the biggest carriers, have been pressured by
record high fuel prices and competition from low-cost carriers.

Brace told reporters United's fuel costs this year are now estimated to
be $900 million more than projected. But he did not expect any major
changes to the size or scope of United's route network.

 

[twuer]

AND.........

AMFA Calls United Airlines Financing Agreement Barring Pension
Contributions `Shameful'
Friday July 23, 4:04 pm ET

LACONIA, N.H.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 23, 2004--O. V. Delle-Femine,
national director of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association
(AMFA), reacted sharply to today's announcement that United Airlines
parent company UAL Corp. reached an interim financing agreement that
bars the firm from making pension contributions while the agreement is
in force.

"It is shameful that management is seeking to take away even more from
those who have already given the most--the employees and, most
scurrilously, the retirees of UAL, current and future. UAL first
demanded increases in contributions for promised medical insurance from
those who have the least from which to pay for such coverage, and now is
threatening the very source of funds needed to pay for medical insurance
and the other needs of life itself," he said.

"The company cannot amend the plan to reduce accrued benefits. Accrued
benefits include all benefits for current retirees and terminated vested
participants. For active participants, this means benefits attributable
to all service to date cannot be reduced. The only way accrued benefits
can be reduced is if the plan is turned over to the Pension Benefit
Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) and either the accrued benefits exceed the
PBGC guaranty levels, or the PBGC ultimately cannot meet its obligations.

"The company can amend the plan to reduce or eliminate future benefit
accruals. This would not impact retirees or terminated vested
participants, but would reduce future accruals and the ultimate benefits
for active employees. It's not clear at this juncture whether a change
to reduce future accruals would require bargaining, or if the bankruptcy
status would allow the company to do this unilaterally.

"From a funding perspective, there are major implications if the company
does not fund its 2004 minimum contribution by September 15, 2004. The
implications of delays up to that date are minor."

Earlier this week, executives of United Airlines met with national and
local AMFA leaders at AMFA's invitation to discuss United's recent
deferral of its $72.4 million quarterly contribution to employee pension
plans. Union officials voiced concern that the deferral will cause
severe long-term problems with the pension plans if United is unable to
make required payments.

 

[Hopeful]

I can sum it up in a nutshell just by reading Little's response.

HE WILL DO WHAT IT TAKES TO PERSERVE JOBS, EVEN IF IT MEANS CONCESSIONS!


I FIND IT EVEN MORE INTERESTING THAT HE WOULD RATHER GIVE MECHANICS' WORK TO FELLOW RAMPERS THAN LOSE THE TWU JOBS.


WOULD LITTLE BE WILLING TO LET THE RAMPERS DO ALL THE MAINTENANCE WORK ACROSS THE SYSTEM?


Let's see Little do his famous two-stup shuffle when AA comes knocking on the door again for more concessions, namely the pension!


It's funny that Little responded to Ken, but he has not responded with the appropriate measures concerning AA's shared sacrifice!

 

[Mark Inman]

The Board has determined that the single craft or class of Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance, and Fleet Service Personnel is no longer a proper craft or class at either American or TWA-LLC. The proper crafts or classes are Mechanics and Related Employees, and Fleet Service Employees. American Airlines, Inc./TWA Airlines, LLC., 29 NMB 240, 251 (2002).1.
NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Reuters
UAL to Miss More Pension Payments
Friday July 23, 5:07 pm ET
By Meredith Grossman Dubner

CHICAGO (Reuters) - United Airlines said on Friday it plans no further
pension payments this year, angering unions who fear the carrier could
scrap their retirement plans altogether to lower costs and attract badly
needed investors.

The company did not say when the payments would be made, but demoralized
workers fear they will never get that money.

"While United's action falls short of an outright termination of the
pension plans, the company's actions make termination of the pension
plans likely," Greg Davidowitch, president of the Association of Flight
Attendants, said in a statement.

The International Association of Machinists said it was exploring legal
action. "We want to know if United is trying to dump its pension
obligations on U.S. taxpayers as another way to get the federal
government to finance its bankruptcy following their failed bid to
receive a loan guarantee," Robert Roach, IAM general vice president,
said in a statement.



United was denied a $1.1 billion government loan guarantee last month,
forcing it to restructure plans for securing bankruptcy exit financing
and putting immediate pressure on the Elk Grove, Illinois-based company
to reduce ballooning pension costs.

United has four employee pension plans which now are underfunded by
about $4.1 billion over the next five years.

"Randy Clerihue, a spokesman for the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the
federal agency that insures corporate pensions, said it was rare for
bankrupt companies that skip contributions to make up the shortfall.
"Obviously it heightens concern," Clerihue said. "It's not a foregone
conclusion that plans terminate, but we don't often see those plans
riding through without those shortfalls corrected."

When you consider that the Pilots, Flight Attendants and all the ground workers EXCEPT for the mechanics are in AFL-CIO unions it is clear that UAL is more of an AFL-CIO represented Airline than AAL.

At AAL our Pilots and Flight Attendants are not AFL-CIO affiliated. Our Res and Gate Agents are non union. Only one third of AAL employees are AFL-CIO Affiliated while the overwhelming majority of UALs workers are.


So, with all this considered what is the mighty AFL-CIO doing to protect the workers at UAL?

Since only a minority of AAs workers are in AFL-CIO affiliated unions its clear that we could only expect even less help from the AFL-CIO than the workers at UAL are getting.

 

[Nightwatch]

What a feeble attempt to take the heat off AMFA. Blame it on the AFL-CIO....When is AMFA, and all it's little amfaites, going to start taking responsibility for their ineptness?

BTW...you really do create a suction Bob, nice spin.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

What a feeble attempt to take the heat off AMFA. Blame it on the AFL-CIO....When is AMFA, and all it's little amfaites, going to start taking responsibility for their ineptness?

BTW...you really do create a suction Bob, nice spin.

What's your point with the quote below your post? Again, you show your simple mindedness. I too can't blame the company for doing what they did. I am angry that they did but that is what greedy, inept, nonairline management people do. I BLAMR the twu, aka jim little and the other APPOINTED sellouts for allowing it to happen.

Keep behind the security of your alias nw. It will take men and women of conviction to defend and protect our proud profession. Which you are not one of.

nw, you really are a COWARD! AMFA is accountable. If AMFA is so bad why have they not been removed?

teamtwu and other alias posting wimps such as yourself claim the afl-cio is a strong point to belong to the twu. Well, were is the afl-cio fighting to preserve pensions? Where is the afl-cio fighting to prevent outsourcing the iam allowed?

The only suction going on is that in our wage and benefits. They are being sucked dry and the twu is the one doing the sucking.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

What a feeble attempt to take the heat off AMFA. Blame it on the AFL-CIO....When is AMFA, and all it's little amfaites, going to start taking responsibility for their ineptness?

BTW...you really do create a suction Bob, nice spin.

What a feeble attempt to take the heat off AMFA. Blame it on the AFL-CIO....When is AMFA, and all it's little amfaites, going to start taking responsibility for their ineptness?

BTW...you really do create a suction Bob, nice spin.

What's your point with the quote below your post? Again, you show your simple mindedness. I too can't blame the company for doing what they did. I am angry that they did but that is what greedy, inept, nonairline management people do. I BLAMR the twu, aka jim little and the other APPOINTED sellouts for allowing it to happen.

Keep behind the security of your alias nw. It will take men and women of conviction to defend and protect our proud profession. Which you are not one of.

 

[Mark Inman]

Bob it seems that a small rogue group of mechanics banded together with the company at united and beat the IAM, and the almighty AFL-CIO to the curb and then gave away the mechanics right to do heavy maintaince, and there once totally secure pencion . Good thing we had the guidance of the twscrew to give away 25 years worth of benefits and save our totally secure pension. This crap must be hard for you twscrew guys to say with a strait face. There is no way your going to get the majority of the mechanics to beleave it. The Board has determined that the single craft or class of Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance, and Fleet Service Personnel is no longer a proper craft or class at either American or TWA-LLC. The proper crafts or classes are Mechanics and Related Employees, and Fleet Service Employees. American Airlines, Inc./TWA Airlines, LLC., 29 NMB 240, 251 (2002).1.
NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Nightwatch]

Ken, I am so proud of you and your use of your name on these forums. It shows me there are still true men, with real backbones alive and well...HAHAHA!..sorry, you just crack me up with your nonsense.

You are correct in surmising it will take the AFL-CIO and it's members to try and undo the damage that AMFA is doing to our profession, the airline industry. AMFA has allowed more outsourcing than any other union, regardless of who allowed what in the beginning. Their real-estate mentality has no place in negotiations of our livelihoods. How many members does AMFA have left? How's their pensions? How is our pension doing currently Ken? Will AA follow AMFA's lead and attack ours?

You dislike the AFL-CIO and now I read it as you are asking for their help, go ask Delle to help your brave butt.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ken, I am so proud of you and your use of your name on these forums. It shows me there are still true men, with real backbones alive and well...HAHAHA!..sorry, you just crack me up with your nonsense.

You are correct in surmising it will take the AFL-CIO and it's members to try and undo the damage that AMFA is doing to our profession, the airline industry. AMFA has allowed more outsourcing than any other union, regardless of who allowed what in the beginning. Their real-estate mentality has no place in negotiations of our livelihoods. How many members does AMFA have left? How's their pensions? How is our pension doing currently Ken? Will AA follow AMFA's lead and attack ours?

You dislike the AFL-CIO and now I read it as you are asking for their help, go ask Delle to help your brave butt.

Thinking that integrity & accountability are "nonsense" puts you right at the top of the twu international food chain. You really are pathetic.

"AMFA has allowed more outsourcing than any other union, regardless of who allowed what in the beginning."

Where's your proof? It was the iam at NWA that allowed outsourcing to "begin" and it was the iam at UAL that allowed overhaul to be outsourced at two main bases.

AMFA will have roughly 16000 new members after the NMB authorizes an election at AA. Will AA follow the iam's lead at USAir and gut our pensions? Let's see your political afl-cio airline interests prevent the future gutting of airline pensions.

"You dislike the AFL-CIO and now I read it as you are asking for their help, go ask Delle to help your brave butt." Besides being a coward you are illiterate. I never said I dislike the afl-cio as a whole. They do help unions... just not those in the airline industry. You and your fellow alias hiding twu supporters use the afl-cio as a reason to stay with the twu because of the afl-cio's political power. Well, where is that power being used in the airlines? Certainly not at NWA, UAL when the iam was there. And certainly not at USAir while the iam hangs on for dear life.

 

[Nightwatch]

Thinking that integrity & accountability are "nonsense" puts you right at the top of the twu international food chain. You really are pathetic.

"AMFA has allowed more outsourcing than any other union, regardless of who allowed what in the beginning."

Where's your proof? It was the iam at NWA that allowed outsourcing to "begin" and it was the iam at UAL that allowed overhaul to be outsourced at two main bases.

AMFA will have roughly 16000 new members after the NMB authorizes an election at AA. Will AA follow the iam's lead at USAir and gut our pensions? Let's see your political afl-cio airline interests prevent the future gutting of airline pensions.

"You dislike the AFL-CIO and now I read it as you are asking for their help, go ask Delle to help your brave butt." Besides being a coward you are illiterate. I never said I dislike the afl-cio as a whole. They do help unions... just not those in the airline industry. You and your fellow alias hiding twu supporters use the afl-cio as a reason to stay with the twu because of the afl-cio's political power. Well, where is that power being used in the airlines? Certainly not at NWA, UAL when the iam was there. And certainly not at USAir while the iam hangs on for dear life.

Ken, you are a common coward. Now you state you like the AFL-CIO, just not in the airline industry, what a stance you take, how daring. And the truth be know, AMFA needs the 16,000 members at AA, AMFA is currently running out of dues paying members.

Ask your buddy Owens about integrity and accountability.