The Dreaded Gulf...
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407 Driver
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No Thanks, the night VFR (notice in the report that no flight plan was filed?) and heading 190 miles out over water doesn't thrill me, plus most of the aircraft used (closer in) are all Singles ! :blink:
RH and RDM can do that stuff...on an IFR plan...with twin engine Heavies ! 😀
RH and RDM can do that stuff...on an IFR plan...with twin engine Heavies ! 😀
VERTICAL REF
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407 makes no difference,
Flying a single engine over water, when the engine quits all the pilot hears is
"BANG, SPLOOSH"
Flying a twin engine over water, when one engine quits all the pilots hear is
"BANG, WHOOP WHOOP, SPLOOSH" 😉
And as Johny Cash would sing " two feet high and rising..."
Flying a single engine over water, when the engine quits all the pilot hears is
"BANG, SPLOOSH"
Flying a twin engine over water, when one engine quits all the pilots hear is
"BANG, WHOOP WHOOP, SPLOOSH" 😉
And as Johny Cash would sing " two feet high and rising..."
??
What are you guys talking about?
An S76 is a twin and more than capable of OEI operations so there is no reason to "whoop whoop splash" and the report states that they are 90miles of Galvenston.
Where did you get 190nms from....did I miss something?
What are you guys talking about?
An S76 is a twin and more than capable of OEI operations so there is no reason to "whoop whoop splash" and the report states that they are 90miles of Galvenston.
Where did you get 190nms from....did I miss something?
407 Driver
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The destination (drill ship) was reported to be 190 NM out.
Are you sure that a 76A can function effectively at AUW with OEI ??? I don't know the answer to that one, I do know that my 212HP with -3B's could probably do OK at sea level though.
........I just checked my sources (justhelicopters.com) and it was a 190 Mile leg, but only 130 miles actually offshore. (from South Padre Island)
Are you sure that a 76A can function effectively at AUW with OEI ??? I don't know the answer to that one, I do know that my 212HP with -3B's could probably do OK at sea level though.
........I just checked my sources (justhelicopters.com) and it was a 190 Mile leg, but only 130 miles actually offshore. (from South Padre Island)
VERTICAL REF
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Hope they just diverted to another platform out of cell coverage!
Lot braver than I to fly over water on a daily basis.
Lot braver than I to fly over water on a daily basis.
407 Driver
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V-Ref, it's comfirmed down, and about 6 bodies have been recovered.
Tough day for ERA, our thoughts and sympathies go out to all their family and friends........
Tough day for ERA, our thoughts and sympathies go out to all their family and friends........
cyclic monkey
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Let's look at this a little more realistically, guys..........
Pick any emergency that could have downed an S76A at night over the Gulf of Mexico............
Now imagine how your aircraft could have handled that emergency with a seismic drill underneath you, or with twelve skiers on board. Scary, huh??
On the contrary, I'm sure the two pilots of that aircraft could actually handle several types of emergencies (even over water at night) better than we could by ourselves in the mountains.
Simply being over water was not what sealed the fate of this machine.
Also, I doubt whether these pilots would have wanted to come anywhere near our mountains, especially to fly single pilot. They chose the type of flying that suited them. We've chosen ours.
Let's face it, we are in a very unforgiving business. There, but for the Grace of God, goes us.
May their God carry them gently. They were our brothers, let's not forget them.
Pick any emergency that could have downed an S76A at night over the Gulf of Mexico............
Now imagine how your aircraft could have handled that emergency with a seismic drill underneath you, or with twelve skiers on board. Scary, huh??
On the contrary, I'm sure the two pilots of that aircraft could actually handle several types of emergencies (even over water at night) better than we could by ourselves in the mountains.
Simply being over water was not what sealed the fate of this machine.
Also, I doubt whether these pilots would have wanted to come anywhere near our mountains, especially to fly single pilot. They chose the type of flying that suited them. We've chosen ours.
Let's face it, we are in a very unforgiving business. There, but for the Grace of God, goes us.
May their God carry them gently. They were our brothers, let's not forget them.
I thought I read a statistic somewhere that compared all the helicopter accidents in the U.S. and determined that twin engines whould have made a difference in only 0.5% of all those cases. It almost seems like twin engines do the same for your helicopters as 4x4 does for your truck: It makes you go in deeper in the sh-t and really doesn't do much for you when you get yourself into trouble!!!
It sucks to hear about any accident just the same 🙁
It sucks to hear about any accident just the same 🙁
just flashed back to when i was over the south china sea, 100nm from manila, night at 7000' IMC. i flicked the switch for the aux tank and the smell of fuel invaded the cabin...........fuel hose improperly connected.... 
man, that was the longest flight of my life.
nope, quite happy in my little 300.... 😉
my condolences to the family and friends........... :unsure:
may God grant them His peace............
man, that was the longest flight of my life.
nope, quite happy in my little 300.... 😉
my condolences to the family and friends........... :unsure:
may God grant them His peace............
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?wcd=19040
Search continues as four identified in crash
By Nathan Smith
The Daily News
Published March 26, 2004
GALVESTON — The Galveston County Medical Examiner’s Office released the names of four victims recovered from the wreckage of a helicopter that crashed in the Gulf of Mexico after taking off from Scholes International Airport at Galveston on Tuesday night.
The four victims identified were pilot Tim O’Neil, 50, of El Lago; copilot Donald Janning, 46, of Monument, Colo.; and passengers Trampus Terwilleger, 26, of Rayne, La.; and Tyler Breaux, 23, whose hometown was not available late Thursday.
The remains of all four victims were recovered in a debris field 60 miles south of Galveston between 4:30 p.m. and 7 p.m. Wednesday.
Still missing from the crash were Jason Petitjean, 34, of Rayne, La.; Craig Bally, 43; Thomas Jackson, 37; David Kamolsiri, 24; Andre Lake, 36; and Jeff Langley, 42, whose hometowns were not available.
The helicopter’s radar dome was discovered at 10 a.m. Thursday 30 miles northwest of the search area by a commercial aircraft. The Coast Guard has received assistance in their rescue efforts from the crews of numerous civilian and commercial ships and aircraft in the area.
Era Aviation, the employer of the two pilots found dead on Wednesday, has deployed at least five aircraft to assist with the search. Unocal, the energy company that employed or contracted with each of the eight passengers, arranged to have four vessels patrol the search area as well.
Weather on Thursday had improved in the Gulf since the search for survivors began, but 16-knot winds and three- to five-foot waves have complicated efforts, according to the Coast Guard.
The helicopter was in route to an oil rig in the Gulf about 100 miles east of South Padre Island when it went down for as yet unknown reasons.
Search continues as four identified in crash
By Nathan Smith
The Daily News
Published March 26, 2004
GALVESTON — The Galveston County Medical Examiner’s Office released the names of four victims recovered from the wreckage of a helicopter that crashed in the Gulf of Mexico after taking off from Scholes International Airport at Galveston on Tuesday night.
The four victims identified were pilot Tim O’Neil, 50, of El Lago; copilot Donald Janning, 46, of Monument, Colo.; and passengers Trampus Terwilleger, 26, of Rayne, La.; and Tyler Breaux, 23, whose hometown was not available late Thursday.
The remains of all four victims were recovered in a debris field 60 miles south of Galveston between 4:30 p.m. and 7 p.m. Wednesday.
Still missing from the crash were Jason Petitjean, 34, of Rayne, La.; Craig Bally, 43; Thomas Jackson, 37; David Kamolsiri, 24; Andre Lake, 36; and Jeff Langley, 42, whose hometowns were not available.
The helicopter’s radar dome was discovered at 10 a.m. Thursday 30 miles northwest of the search area by a commercial aircraft. The Coast Guard has received assistance in their rescue efforts from the crews of numerous civilian and commercial ships and aircraft in the area.
Era Aviation, the employer of the two pilots found dead on Wednesday, has deployed at least five aircraft to assist with the search. Unocal, the energy company that employed or contracted with each of the eight passengers, arranged to have four vessels patrol the search area as well.
Weather on Thursday had improved in the Gulf since the search for survivors began, but 16-knot winds and three- to five-foot waves have complicated efforts, according to the Coast Guard.
The helicopter was in route to an oil rig in the Gulf about 100 miles east of South Padre Island when it went down for as yet unknown reasons.
Yes boys and girls the S76A will stay up with one engine and any reputable operator restricts their take off weights to enable S/E operation at the minimum altitude for the route being flown. Without asking I'd feel pretty safe in saying that this would be ERA's policy.
407 - You should have another look at your fliegen manual. Mine shows me that the 3B 2x2 can maintain 5 large at 11,200 with one stove at 0 ft/min ROC and 30 minute power on an ISA day.
The S76A Flight Manual says that it will maintain 4500ft OEI at 10500 at 30 Minute power, 0 ft/min ROC on an ISA day.
Don't y'all think it might not be a good idea to wait for some real info on what happened instead of all this pointless speculation. The reason for this accident may not have anything at all to do with the flying environment. It may be mechanical or human factors or a combination.
407 - You should have another look at your fliegen manual. Mine shows me that the 3B 2x2 can maintain 5 large at 11,200 with one stove at 0 ft/min ROC and 30 minute power on an ISA day.
The S76A Flight Manual says that it will maintain 4500ft OEI at 10500 at 30 Minute power, 0 ft/min ROC on an ISA day.
Don't y'all think it might not be a good idea to wait for some real info on what happened instead of all this pointless speculation. The reason for this accident may not have anything at all to do with the flying environment. It may be mechanical or human factors or a combination.
...and this was an S76A++
I don't there is a rigpig on the planet that flys in an A model to work anymore.
So it had the 1S1 in it with a gross wt of 10800lbs (?..or is it more) and good OEI performance at sea level.
####, even my old A can maintain Cat A @ +1000 amsl and 30 deg.
I don't there is a rigpig on the planet that flys in an A model to work anymore.
So it had the 1S1 in it with a gross wt of 10800lbs (?..or is it more) and good OEI performance at sea level.
####, even my old A can maintain Cat A @ +1000 amsl and 30 deg.
407 Driver
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Steve, that's the first positive word I've ever heard on your A model Ambulance ships. Most guys I have talked to have only spoken of old underpowered aircraft. Haven't we seen some pics in the gallery of a spectacular bend or two on training?
407D,
Certainly they are not the newest 76 in the world but if you crunch the #'s, measure the fuel, mitigate the risk, they perform the OEI role reasonably well. As for the bent tail, that was a training accident during OEI config but not as straight forward as it appears (..specially the tail ....) The old girl will still outpace 95% of the fleet out there at 70%TQ......
Its mainly the same issues with all twins, you need to know ahead of time what you can and cannot do. A lot like what you do everytime you launch into those big hills. I gather you check the chart, or you know it well enough, to ensure that the 407 can perform as you are asking it to.
A lot comes down to the pilot too. A heap of stick stirring loses a lot of lift and a smooth guy with the numbers down pat can pull off something when it hits the fan. However, have an emergency NVFR over the ocean, forget to fly the machine, bleed off the height and airspeed and anything can happen.....
Having a licence doesn't make you a good pilot.
ME: living proof 🙂
Certainly they are not the newest 76 in the world but if you crunch the #'s, measure the fuel, mitigate the risk, they perform the OEI role reasonably well. As for the bent tail, that was a training accident during OEI config but not as straight forward as it appears (..specially the tail ....) The old girl will still outpace 95% of the fleet out there at 70%TQ......
Its mainly the same issues with all twins, you need to know ahead of time what you can and cannot do. A lot like what you do everytime you launch into those big hills. I gather you check the chart, or you know it well enough, to ensure that the 407 can perform as you are asking it to.
A lot comes down to the pilot too. A heap of stick stirring loses a lot of lift and a smooth guy with the numbers down pat can pull off something when it hits the fan. However, have an emergency NVFR over the ocean, forget to fly the machine, bleed off the height and airspeed and anything can happen.....
Having a licence doesn't make you a good pilot.
ME: living proof 🙂
