The Letter

[Busdrvr]

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/busine...etter061704.pdf

Well folks, a copy of the letter. the specific reason for the denial "the loan is not necessary.....". IOW, the board though it was necessary to ensure a safe and vibrant system in the US for World, ATA and FRNT to get loans, but not for the second LARGEST AIRLINE IN THE M-F'n WORLD.

UAL and AMR were SPECIFICALLY targeted because the REPRESENT the US. UFB. Gramlich is an incompetaqnt old fool who should stick to writting textbooks. His incompetance as a fed governor is one of the biggest reasons that UAL's pensions are underfunded and the economy isn't supporting an industry recovery.

All in all, I'm embarrased to be a tax paying citizen today. Chalk one more up for Al Queda.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The answer to why other airlines were granted loan guarantees while United was not has solely to do with timing. If UAL had a viable loan application at the ATSB two years ago, they probably would have been granted the money. Two and one-half years after 9/11, it is very hard to argue that 9/11 is the cause for many problems in this country except for the heightened security in every aspect we will all face for the rest of our lives. The fact that Delta, Continental, and Northwest are struggling just as much as AA, UA, and US who were more impacted by 9/11 negates the argument that AA and UA were more impacted. AA’s ability to restructure itself outside of bankruptcy outside of bankruptcy and without government aid is very compelling; AA and UA have long been arch-rivals and have been impacted as much by 9/11, recession, LCCs, and fuel as UAL. UAL has endured SARS but so hast NW and they are far from bankruptcy. It simply is no longer true that the US airline industry could possibly collapse, even if United failed tomorrow – which thankfully it won’t.

With all sensitivity to the difficulty United and its employees are facing now, you will find little sympathy from anyone until you admit that a long list of United management and labor actions (separately and jointly) are responsible for United’s difficulty today.

We all wish you well as you make important decisions in the coming weeks and months.

 

[Busdrvr]

"The fact that Delta, Continental, and Northwest are struggling just as much as AA, UA, and US who were more impacted by 9/11 negates the argument that AA and UA were more impacted."

They AREN'T, but they WILL be. UA, AMR, and U CLEARLY had bigger problems much quicker than the other three.

"AA’s ability to restructure itself outside of bankruptcy outside of bankruptcy and without government aid is very compelling; AA and UA have long been arch-rivals and have been impacted as much by 9/11, recession, LCCs, and fuel as UAL. UAL has endured SARS but so hast NW and they are far from bankruptcy."

OK, so AMR weather 911 and NWA weathered SARS, WHILE UAL WEATHERED BOTH!!!

"With all sensitivity to the difficulty United and its employees are facing now, you will find little sympathy from anyone until you admit that a long list of United management and labor actions (separately and jointly) are responsible for United’s difficulty today."

Hmmm, the employees lost approx $5 BILLION they had invested in the company. Lived through massive furloughs and pay cuts, and yet are providing some of the best customer service in the industry. WADR, just what in the **** more do you want, expect, think you deserve from them? BTW what do YOU do for a living. :angry:

 

[laura62]

With all sensitivity to the difficulty United and its employees are facing now, you will find little sympathy from anyone until you admit that a long list of United management and labor actions (separately and jointly) are responsible for United’s difficulty today."

Thanks-but we're not looking for sympathy. :down:

And we admit nothing. :angry:

 

[WorldTraveler]

No one doubts that United has sustained a number of setbacks over the past several years but so has every other airline. However, United was weakened going into 9/11 and had costs above industry average, again not due to actions by terrorists or the US government but by United employees and management. It is not the taxpayers responsibility to fix any company's problems.

I work in marketing for a large corporation.

 

[luv2fly]

It is not the taxpayers responsibility to fix any company's problems.

I work in marketing for a large corporation.

Should it be the airlines responsibility to carry a tax burden on a product that is taxed more than cigarettes? What is a airline ticket taxed at now? Something around 27%?
Is your corporation's product or products taxed as such?

 

[InclusiveScope]

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/busine...etter061704.pdf

Well folks, a copy of the letter. the specific reason for the denial "the loan is not necessary.....". IOW, the board though it was necessary to ensure a safe and vibrant system in the US for World, ATA and FRNT to get loans, but not for the second LARGEST AIRLINE IN THE M-F'n WORLD.

UAL and AMR were SPECIFICALLY targeted because the REPRESENT the US. UFB. Gramlich is an incompetaqnt old fool who should stick to writting textbooks. His incompetance as a fed governor is one of the biggest reasons that UAL's pensions are underfunded and the economy isn't supporting an industry recovery.

All in all, I'm embarrased to be a tax paying citizen today. Chalk one more up for Al Queda.

Whaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Busdriver,
Delta, AA, CAL, NWA, FNT, SWA, and others had to deal with 911 also. You may be embarrased to be a tax payer today. I on the otherhand as a taxpayer and fellow ALPA member am glad we are not going to lose any money down the UAL rathole. Survive in the marketplace with the rest of us your arroghancy! Deal with it!

 

[WorldTraveler]

"Is your corporation's product or products taxed as such? "

UAL's passengers pay the same taxes as do passengers of other airlines. While I don't believe the government has at all correctly handled US aviation policy, including taxes, the reality is that when it comes to taxes United is dealt the same cards as other airlines. There are LCCs that manage to make money under that tax structure and a couple legacy airlines have even reported small quarterly profits since 9/11.

 

[Doc]

UAL and AMR were SPECIFICALLY targeted because the REPRESENT the US.

Not so............ many more flights were targeted .....some they didn't get wether it was delays or maint or what ever else we heard.... truth is is they had plans for many more planes and many more targets.....they were afer the USA period..

 

[Oneflyer]

Maybe that pilot sick-out/slow down in the summer of 2000 wasn't such a great idea afterall?

Is it a coincedence that the airline in most financial trouble before 911, is one in the most trouble after 911? No.

One of the major reason that this loan got denied is the financial trouble UAL had before 911. What caused that financial trouble? The greedy pilots that screwed up UAL's operation to the point where it lost money when everyone else was making it hand over fist.

Maybe you should take a look in the mirror before spouting off nonsense about Federal Reserve Chairmen.