The pilot group , what do you think will happen ?

[freedom]

The fight between the pilots makes for interesting reading , not to mention what i've heard from our west pilots in passing , we are actually in the middle of what i would call a civil war here ... This is what i think will happen ..

The east is more unified than we beleive , they will vote down the next contract brought up ... After the contract is voted down the west will be amzazed that the east is willing to pass up so much money on the DOH debate , at this point they will reconsider their stance and come to some sort of agreement with the east ...


That's just my guess for the future .

 

[Mr Furlough]

I can't speak for the entire east. But for myself, being stapled to the bottom, it's not the west I dislike, it's the award I cannot, and will not live with.

Many of the comments on this board aren't particularly flattering of either side. I'm to blame as much as the next person.

But in the end, I believe there won't even be a vote for a joint contract. We (the east) are at status quo until the seniority issue is resolved. And from what I personally believe, and from what I've heard from my fellow pilots in the east, that will work just fine.

I have witnessed the beginning of an ALPA desertification movement. As you might imagine, I'm kinda ok with that. There is a very strong resolve to stop the merger at all cost unless the seniority issue is properly addressed. Not a threat, not meant to be a threat, but more of a last stand. As the award holds no future for most of us. Coupled with the loss of retirement, the deep cuts we have all endured, it has become something I imagine none of us really value nor have sacrificed for.

All I can say is, hold off on buying the new car, put your money in the bank, and keep your options open. From my perspective, we've got a real messy-junk yard dog fight ahead for us.

Best,

 

[EastUS]

I can't speak for the entire east. But for myself, being stapled to the bottom, it's not the west I dislike, it's the award I cannot, and will not live with.

Many of the comments on this board aren't particularly flattering of either side. I'm to blame as much as the next person.

But in the end, I believe there won't even be a vote for a joint contract. We (the east) are at status quo until the seniority issue is resolved. And from what I personally believe, and from what I've heard from my fellow pilots in the east, that will work just fine.

I have witnessed the beginning of an ALPA desertification movement. As you might imagine, I'm kinda ok with that. There is a very strong resolve to stop the merger at all cost unless the seniority issue is properly addressed. Not a threat, not meant to be a threat, but more of a last stand. As the award holds no future for most of us. Coupled with the loss of retirement, the deep cuts we have all endured, it has become something I imagine none of us really value nor have sacrificed for.

All I can say is, hold off on buying the new car, put your money in the bank, and keep your options open. From my perspective, we've got a real messy-junk yard dog fight ahead for us.

Best,

To dispell any notions that this is merely a single "furlough"/stapled voice in the wilderness; I'll add that I fully believe that this accurately represents the general feeling in the east.

 

[NevadaHP]

if you decert ALPA on the east you have no representation. the west will still have ALPA. therefore you have no say in any seniority now. You think its bad now, wait til you decert ALPA and have day one seniority.

 

[foreright]

if you decert ALPA on the east you have no representation. the west will still have ALPA. therefore you have no say in any seniority now. You think its bad now, wait til you decert ALPA and have day one seniority.

we have been without representation for a long time!

 

[EastUS]

if you decert ALPA on the east you have no representation. the west will still have ALPA. therefore you have no say in any seniority now. You think its bad now, wait til you decert ALPA and have day one seniority.

"we have been without representation for a long time!" I'd say that aptly summarizes the vast majority of the sentiments in the east.

To address your concerns:

1) Alpa would be replaced with a given representative body.

2) The east has, by far, the larger voting numbers.

3) Given an eventual single cert operation: What would possibly stop the east from then punting Alpa off the west as well? Perhaps the warm, glowing feelings of concerned fellowship resulting from the Nic fiasco?

"You think its bad now..." YES...we do...and enough's finally ENOUGH!!

 

[delldude]

if you decert ALPA on the east you have no representation. the west will still have ALPA. therefore you have no say in any seniority now. You think its bad now, wait til you decert ALPA and have day one seniority.

Single carrier status...decert on the east side is a decert on the west side....besides it don't work that way...

Concede the award... this is getting better all the time.Two sides agree to 'binding' arbitration and you think you can concede ?

 

[Piedmont1984]

I can't speak for the entire east. But for myself, being stapled to the bottom, it's not the west I dislike, it's the award I cannot, and will not live with.

Many of the comments on this board aren't particularly flattering of either side. I'm to blame as much as the next person.

But in the end, I believe there won't even be a vote for a joint contract. We (the east) are at status quo until the seniority issue is resolved. And from what I personally believe, and from what I've heard from my fellow pilots in the east, that will work just fine.

I have witnessed the beginning of an ALPA desertification movement. As you might imagine, I'm kinda ok with that. There is a very strong resolve to stop the merger at all cost unless the seniority issue is properly addressed. Not a threat, not meant to be a threat, but more of a last stand. As the award holds no future for most of us. Coupled with the loss of retirement, the deep cuts we have all endured, it has become something I imagine none of us really value nor have sacrificed for.

All I can say is, hold off on buying the new car, put your money in the bank, and keep your options open. From my perspective, we've got a real messy-junk yard dog fight ahead for us.

Best,

I was just going to say that.

I was just going to say that.

Except for the first sentence.

 

[A320 Driver]

I think the joint negotiations will fail. AWA pilots will enter section 6 negotiations on their own. ALPA national will let the ruling stand. When all the dust settles and everyone resigns themselves that the East will not allow the award to go forward, the focus will shift towards the East demanding pay parity with the West. And I don't mean asking with their hats in their hand either. It will be "write the checks or else".

So much for my crystal ball.

A320 Driver B)

 

[700UW]

Go ask the APA represented Pilots about that tactic, ended up costing them $45 million.

 

[Phoenix]

Go ask the APA represented Pilots about that tactic, ended up costing them $45 million.

Read your news paper. They never paid it.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Read your news paper. They never paid it.

They paid half in cash and the other half was "forgiven" as part of concessionary negotiations. Bottom line: it cost them dearly. And just to refresh everybody's memory, it wasn't their illegal sick-out that generated the fine but their contempt charge from disobeying the judge's order to cease and desist. And all the while the APA leadership told them everything would be okay...

 

[Phoenix]

They paid half in cash and the other half was "forgiven" as part of concessionary negotiations. Bottom line: it cost them dearly. And just to refresh everybody's memory, it wasn't their illegal sick-out that generated the fine but their contempt charge from disobeying the judge's order to cease and desist. And all the while the APA leadership told them everything would be okay...

I suspect it didn't matter what they were told. And as I recall their leadership was telling them to get back to work and they ignored it. They had had enough. They didn't care. Its hard to reason with pilots when they don't care.

 

[exB717Flyer]

And as I recall their leadership was telling them to get back to work ...

With a wink.

Its hard to reason with pilots when they don't care.

I think they care a lot more than they're willing to let on.

 

[ussnark]

They paid half in cash and the other half was "forgiven" as part of concessionary negotiations. Bottom line: it cost them dearly. And just to refresh everybody's memory, it wasn't their illegal sick-out that generated the fine but their contempt charge from disobeying the judge's order to cease and desist. And all the while the APA leadership told them everything would be okay...

You likely have a better source than I, but an officer of APA I know told me otherwise. He suggested that when APA threatened to take the issue to a higher authority, the judge relented. The officer felt the concessionary contract was not as bad because of the demonstrated willingness of the pilots to show solidarity, something the US pilots have yet to show.

Perhaps your source(s) knows better.