The right thing to do.

latreal

Advanced
Jun 10, 2003
184
1
For about 2 years we have been hearing that TWA FA''s gave Ozark FA''s DOH because it was the right thing to do. Well finally after letting people believe that crapola for this long the truth has been set free.
Ozark FA''s received DOH because of a weak crumbling striking union, and a lawsuit.
Taken from Smilin Jacks board. (Hey if TWAnr can do it, I can too.)

TRUTHSQUAD!

For the record, the only reason the OZA flight attendants got seniority {DOH} is do to the fact that Murial Foco and the OZ mec went to court early on and the judge ruled against IFFA. The initial attempt was to put all OZA F/a''s on the bottom. IFFA never appealed the decision and it stood. There was no group hug initially with OZ-TWA.
Btw, the OZ ruling would make excellent president in the upcoming lawsuit. I flew with Murial a couple of weeks ago and she said no one had approached her for any of the information on the ruling!

Bill

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TWA''s F/A union, IFFA: DID NOT offer the OZA F/A''s DOH.

The union F/A''s at TWA were engaged in a disasterous strike. Most of the working TWA f/a''s were replacement workers or cross overs at the time of the merger.

The Assn. Of Flight Attendants(AFA); a major national flight attendant union, to which the OZA flight attendants belonged; staged a representation effort on the TWA property. Given the dissheveled circumstances that existed, it is very likely that the AFA would have succeeded in replacing the independant TWA F/A union...IFFA.

IFFA, understanding their weak position, agreed.... when the AFA offered to drop the organization effort...IF!!....the TWA IFFA would grant the OZA F/A''s DOH. Frankly the AFA was in no mood to take on a new airline of F/A''s made up largly of strike breakers. But they played their hand on behalf of the OZA f/a''s.

And so it was.

Politics pure and simple; as usually is the case. There was nothing high minded about the integration. Just a matter of IFFA being in a terribly vunerable position and the AFA looking out for the former OZA F/A''s.

Despite some snide remarks early one; soon the TWA and former OZA flight attendants got along famously.

I would add, that to be best of my knowledge, the IFFA never considered stapling the OZA f/a''s. They were far more fair minded than the AA flight attendants union ever was.

Motivation aside...it is true that the OZA f/a'' got DOH and it was a good deal for them. As Paul Harvey says....The rest of the story.

Bob Ritchie
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So there you have it, one person says they tried to staple but were beat to the punch by a lawsuit, the other person says stapling was never suggested. You be the Judge, so not one more person should be saying it was done because it was the right thing to do, because thats bull and I knew it was all along.

You AA FA''s make sure to post this on your private board and pass to your union for further investigation.

Thanks.
 

L1011Ret

Veteran
Oct 31, 2002
1,326
0
I was there and do not recall stapling ever being an issue. There was an issue of how to fit them into the TWA seniority list. As I remember it since most of OZAs lived locally, their impact was thought to be minimal elsewhere. Eventually they migrated to all Domiciles and over to International at JFK. I enjoyed flying with the OZA copilots and F/As. In general they were a fun very professional group. I never heard first hand one sour note about the integration of either pilots or F/As. But I knew there were unhappy OZA pilots in STL who felt they could not get to the big equipment fast enough. Some still on these boards talking about that part of it 15 years later.
 

Veritas

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
882
148
www.usaviation.com
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On 7/2/2003 4:15:37 PM L1011Ret wrote:

I was there and do not recall stapling ever being an issue...

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It seems that even Bob Ritchie concedes that much in his Smilin' Jack post: "IFFA never considered stapling the OZA f/a's"

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On 7/2/2003 4:15:37 PM L1011Ret wrote:

But I knew there were unhappy OZA pilots in STL who felt they could not get to the big equipment fast enough. Some still on these boards talking about that part of it 15 years later.

----------------

Wasn't Captain Ritchie one of them?
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
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On 7/2/2003 7:07:28 PM kirkpatrick wrote:


And all 5400 of us had voting rights in any representation election. IFFA''s position was not as precarious as suggested.

MK


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I understand that. The reply was to L1011''s line that said, "I never heard first hand one sour note about the integration of either pilots or F/As." I would guess at the time many of the crews flying were juniors who took carl ichans bid to be flight attendants while you all fought for your rights. We will never know if it would have been different had there been no strike, picket line or flight attendants waiting for recall at that time.
 

kirkpatrick

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,345
212
Long Island, NY
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On 7/2/2003 5:40:17 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Remember alot of the REAL TW flight attendants were still on the street. When the merger was going down.

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And all 5400 of us had voting rights in any representation election. IFFA''s position was not as precarious as suggested.

MK
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
Good job, it worked. Here its a bit different. Although I don''t know if its always been this way. If the Captain removes a flight attendant. They are pay protected. Because they are on duty it is also the companies responsibility to find accommodations and transportation. I know, because I have been through it.
 

L1011Ret

Veteran
Oct 31, 2002
1,326
0
There was a huge amount of anger of F/As towards each other when they struck. But the issue was not seniority, it was over those who were crossing the picket lines and the replacements hired to replace strikers. Cooler heads prevailed, the strikers came back to work and things worked out. OZA got DOH. One issue remained fertile for years, the strikers versus the crossovers (those who crossed the picket lines). Like the OZA pilots who could not get to the big equipment fast enough, quite a few of the strikers never forgave the crossovers. At one point on the ground in FCO in a L1011 during a station stop ATH-FCO-CDG the issue had been boiling for a couple days and we had to stay an extra hour while we worked out "relations" between the two waring factions in the cabin. To no avail. So finally I used an AA trick, I threatened them with Bankruptcy! Well not quite, I told them they would be removed from the aircraft, could find and pay for rooms on their own and could get home on their own. They agreed to cease their outrageous behaviors towards each other. Such are the labor wars.
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
Crossovers are people that died, not people that should.
Someone who crosses a picket line is a SCAB.
 

rampguy

Advanced
Aug 21, 2002
116
0
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On 7/2/2003 2:55:09 PM latreal wrote:

For about 2 years we have been hearing that TWA FA''s gave Ozark FA''s DOH because it was the right thing to do. Well finally after letting people believe that crapola for this long the truth has been set free.
Ozark FA''s received DOH because of a weak crumbling striking union, and a lawsuit.
Taken from Smilin Jacks board. (Hey if TWAnr can do it, I can too.)

TRUTHSQUAD!

For the record, the only reason the OZA flight attendants got seniority {DOH} is do to the fact that Murial Foco and the OZ mec went to court early on and the judge ruled against IFFA. The initial attempt was to put all OZA F/a''s on the bottom. IFFA never appealed the decision and it stood. There was no "group hug" initially with OZ-TWA.
Btw, the OZ ruling would make excellent president in the upcoming lawsuit. I flew with Murial a couple of weeks ago and she said no one had approached her for any of the information on the ruling!

Bill

-----------------------------------------------------------------
TWA''s F/A union, IFFA: DID NOT offer the OZA F/A''s DOH.

The union F/A''s at TWA were engaged in a disasterous strike. Most of the working TWA f/a''s were replacement workers or cross overs at the time of the merger.

The Assn. Of Flight Attendants(AFA); a major national flight attendant union, to which the OZA flight attendants belonged; staged a representation effort on the TWA property. Given the dissheveled circumstances that existed, it is very likely that the AFA would have succeeded in replacing the independant TWA F/A union...IFFA.

IFFA, understanding their weak position, agreed.... when the AFA offered to drop the organization effort...IF!!....the TWA IFFA would grant the OZA F/A''s DOH. Frankly the AFA was in no mood to take on a new airline of F/A''s made up largly of strike breakers. But they played their hand on behalf of the OZA f/a''s.

And so it was.

Politics pure and simple; as usually is the case. There was nothing high minded about the integration. Just a matter of IFFA being in a terribly vunerable position and the AFA looking out for the former OZA F/A''s.

Despite some snide remarks early one; soon the TWA and former OZA flight attendants got along famously.

I would add, that to be best of my knowledge, the IFFA never considered stapling the OZA f/a''s. They were far more fair minded than the AA flight attendants union ever was.

Motivation aside...it is true that the OZA f/a'' got DOH and it was a good deal for them. As Paul Harvey says...."The rest of the story."

Bob Ritchie
-----------------------------------------------------------------



So there you have it, one person says they tried to staple but were beat to the punch by a lawsuit, the other person says stapling was never suggested. You be the Judge, so not one more person should be saying it was done because it was the right thing to do, because thats bull and I knew it was all along.

You AA FA''s make sure to post this on your private board and pass to your union for further investigation.

Thanks.

----------------​

Truth Squad: The IAM gave 100 per cent seniority to AMFA mechanics, CSA''s, Fuelers etc. Yep, thats right, AMFA AMT''s also