The shocker of 111

[ContUNITEus]

I am writing this partially because of the disdain that I have for management at AWA, and how much I wish that people like the Barbaras, Chris's, Brendas, Hectors and posse running the PHX base would be swallowed alive by a sinkhole.

I always warned that this large influx of people would happen, because of the amount of attrition that exists in PHX. Some still argue that it is because most people quit, but I followed this closely for years and noticed that more people get canned at US West (aka AWA) than anywhere I have ever seen anywhere else.

Once again, you can see it alone in the fact that while US Airways hired 0 people from 2002-2007, AA hired 0 people from 2001-2013, yet America West (PHX) hired about 3000(just a broad estimate as I have the actual numbers stacked away somewhere) since 2001, with about an equal number falling into the QUOTE "Attrition" category.

You see it here again in the numbers of the original people that were needed for each base: CLT +12*, DCA +25*, PHL +56*, PHX +93*Note: Historically PHL needs more people for the summer increase in Transatlantic flights.

And then here, with the actual numbers:
CLT +18, DCA +2, PHL+17, PHX +111

Somewhere around 55 of the 111 bumped down F/A #1 at AWA.
This could have been preventable, if the revolving door in PHX would have stopped or at least slowed down.

I also blame AFA66 for being too weak, weak in everything that they do when dealing with management, from the way they handle grievances, to the way they protect PHX employees. Granted that the PHX political game with the company is very tough, I still don't understand why all other bases/companies don't have that much of a problem representing their folks.

PHX is the most compliant base out of all the bases, because they have been beaten into it, yet they still are the ones with the most "ATTRITION." Funny how that works.

If things keep going at this pace, more people will be able to flood PHX at once.

I know that my statements sound divisive, but they are coming from an east guy. I feel sorry though for the so many people that are affected so quickly by this large influx. I know that in the long run it is inevitable that people from the east come, but at least I hoped that it would happen at a slower pace, and less noticeable, just so that you wouldn't have this shock factor that is not good for anyone. AWA F/As were thrown into this merger with US, and frankly, they didn't want it, but had no say. Back in 2006, approximately 40 east furloughed F/As joined AWA, and the welcome was -well- not too warm to say the least. But what made it easier, was the fact that these 40sum were, for the time being (until now) at the bottom of the seniority list. There are probably around 15 left today. I consider this a paced transition, that allowed for the west to get acclimated to the east people, to know the east people, and eventually accept them into their family - which actually happened. But it all was because there was not this shock factor.

I can imagine (but hope it's not so) that the reception into PHX for so many people at once will not be very welcoming - not even from the management side, as they will have fun beating compliance and everything else into those east folks. (Not saying that they are not compliant, but they definitely have more guts to dare to stand up for themselves). Question is though, will AFA66 represent them in a fair manner should something happen.

It would have been nice for this transition to have developed at a lower pace, but you AWA people have nobody to blame but your draconian in-flight management team.

I will keep my fingers crossed that somehow, all these monsters, I mean managers in PHX, get eventually replaced with AA managers when the time finally comes for that.

In the meantime, hang in there, and hope that it slows down.

_______________________________________

And please move this to the US Airways forum. It accidentally wound up in the AA one.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Good lord you got issues!
I hope you take a severance and leave the company for everyone’s sake!

How does one get beating into compliance? Doesn't just doing ones job properly make you compliant?

 

[johnny kat]

OMG...do you need some cheese to go with that whine. Please pick yourself up off the kitchen floor and get over it. We are all adults here and your veiled threats about the east folks not being accepted, is pure b/s. This isn't anyone's first rodeo from the east. By the time all of the former PSA f/as' get into PHX I'm sure inflight management will have a few high profile turnovers. If you think the east crowd is going to put up with the namby pamby crying and gnashing of teeth from you junior, you have another thought coming.

The only reason precious PHX hasn't been eaten alive yet is because of the concessionary contract termination date and subsequent ratifying of the new TA. A new day has dawned, WAKE UP!

 

[AANOTOK]

Have we merged yet? Is it to late??? Has anyone seen the AA forum????

 

[johnny kat]

The AA forum is just as good for this converstion as the US. Soon, this type of issue will be discussed in depth by every work group at every base. This is what happens at merger time in the airline industry.

The sooner everyone realizes that it is just going to be that way until it gets resolved the better. Welcome to our world.

 

[AANOTOK]

I reckon you're right...

 

[700UW]

People knew once you had a JCBA that the transfers would open up.

Stop crying, it happens in every merger that people are able to transfer bases based upon openings and seniority.

 

[snapthis]

People knew once you had a JCBA that the transfers would open up.

Stop crying, it happens in every merger that people are able to transfer bases based upon openings and seniority.

Bravo!

Well said, kudos to JK as well.

 

[eolesen]

To be clear, you're only talking about FA's. Certainly, AA has hired off the street in every workgroup except perhaps pilots.

Once again, you can see it alone in the fact that while US Airways hired 0 people from 2002-2007, AA hired 0 people from 2001-2013, yet America West (PHX) hired about 3000(just a broad estimate as I have the actual numbers stacked away somewhere) since 2001, with about an equal number falling into the QUOTE "Attrition" category.

Not sure that's entirely accurate. I seem to recall AA did have a class or two in the past 10 years, specifically Mandarin speakers for the China flights. There were also a bunch hired in 2001, prior to 9/11 and after the TW transaction.

Given the number of AA commuters who live in the mountain states and along th west coast, I suspect there definitely could be a bunch who'd consider PHX an easier base to fly from.

 

[desertgal]

Its hard for me to figure out where contUNITEus is coming from most of the time, except that wherever it is, anger and unhappiness dwell there. He says he is an 'East guy', but is so focused on west management.

Just want to say as a PHX based FA, most of us in the middle and bottom of seniority are not too bothered by the senior transfers. (can't speak for the most senior group, who will see the biggest change in their schedules).
I myself am looking forward to it, I think it will be fun to have them here. Its brave of them to make the switch now, pre-PBS, while they will have to learn all new scheduling and workrules.
I fall in the middle of base seniority, and will still be in the middle.
And we are mostly unanimous in looking forward to a merger with AA.
Even knowing full well that there will be even more upheavel, transfers, change, and dragged out negotiations. Everyone I talk to thinks it will be "good".
To my knowledge no one has ever been hostile to any of the earlier East transfers.
They were all super junior, so I guess I can't say what went on in the Hot Reserve room, but that place is a pit of negativity and complaining anyway. And people naturally congregate with their own class mates.

And for the record, most PHX attrition comes at the bottom of seniority, relatively new folks who couldn't make it work on the poverty wages, and new hires who found more suitable employment in the PHX job market which has become more and more robust.
Now that the junior FAs have a pay increase from the new contract, I think things will stabalize.
At least until the fall when the retirement bonus time comes.

PHX mgmnt is not so bad. They are just doing their job. And its not like they are out on the hunt looking for unsuspecting FAs to pick off.
It takes a lot to get fired, just like anywhere else. On any given day I can look around and see someone who should've been fired a long time ago, and there's always lots of FAs obviously out of complience just inviting trouble and confrontation.

 

[ContUNITEus]

To be clear, you're only talking about FA's. Certainly, AA has hired off the street in every workgroup except perhaps pilots.



Not sure that's entirely accurate. I seem to recall AA did have a class or two in the past 10 years, specifically Mandarin speakers for the China flights. There were also a bunch hired in 2001, prior to 9/11 and after the TW transaction.

Given the number of AA commuters who live in the mountain states and along th west coast, I suspect there definitely could be a bunch who'd consider PHX an easier base to fly from.

Yeah, I thought somewhere the middle of 2001 was he last class.

As for the second comment, yeah, why not - if you have been working for US since before AWA was even around, take the most senior space from someone. It'll be really fun to tout that when I get there.

------

On another comment, if you ever have been on the AFA66 discussion board, you could see what the real feelings were from AWA towards the EAST. I saw plenty of festering hostility. Going into PHX as an eastie was not easy at first.

 

[ContUNITEus]

To my knowledge no one has ever been hostile to any of the earlier East transfers. (because you were not an east person, you wouldn't have ever had the chance to experienced the hostility)
They were all super junior, so I guess I can't say what went on in the Hot Reserve room, but that place is a pit of negativity and complaining anyway. And people naturally congregate with their own class mates. They were all hire dates 1999-2001 (some who were hired at AWA between 2001 and 2006, and actually understood the stipulation listed in the Transition Agreement, were pretty hostile towards the idea that in the future they would be bumped down. The others truly were in denial about it and swore that, no matter what it says in the TA, they were to be kept at 2006 hire date. The best thing was to just agree with them and continue to (patiently) wait for integration date, so that they could actually realize that they were wrong. I am sure that they now got to smell the coffee.

And for the record, most PHX attrition comes at the bottom of seniority, relatively new folks who couldn't make it work on the poverty wages, and new hires who found more suitable employment in the PHX job market which has become more and more robust. Again, keep saying yourself that... but I invite you to carefully watch the attrition numbers of each base, you will soon realize that nothing has changed in PHX. Gosh, I truly hope I am right by the time the next bid comes out, and that 0 people in that month have made it to the "ATTRITION" list, like it sometimes happens at some east bases - 0 people lost in a month.

Now that the junior FAs have a pay increase from the new contract, I think things will stabalize.
At least until the fall when the retirement bonus time comes.

PHX mgmnt is not so bad. They are just doing their job. And its not like they are out on the hunt looking for unsuspecting FAs to pick off. Again, in your view it is normal, because you have never seen differently, but once you move into a base where firing, excuse me, "ATTRITION" is almost 0, you will notice the truth.

 

[desertgal]

I am sorry you are so angry and hurt.
A friend of mine was an East transfer just like you, but didn't have any trouble adjusting.
He won't even consider transferring back East.
I don't think your generalizations are very accurate, but I understand that they are your reality.
Good luck to you in your new base.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Its hard for me to figure out where contUNITEus is coming from most of the time, except that wherever it is, anger and unhappiness dwell there. He says he is an 'East guy', but is so focused on west management.

Just want to say as a PHX based FA, most of us in the middle and bottom of seniority are not too bothered by the senior transfers. (can't speak for the most senior group, who will see the biggest change in their schedules).
I myself am looking forward to it, I think it will be fun to have them here. Its brave of them to make the switch now, pre-PBS, while they will have to learn all new scheduling and workrules.
I fall in the middle of base seniority, and will still be in the middle.
And we are mostly unanimous in looking forward to a merger with AA.
Even knowing full well that there will be even more upheavel, transfers, change, and dragged out negotiations. Everyone I talk to thinks it will be "good".
To my knowledge no one has ever been hostile to any of the earlier East transfers.
They were all super junior, so I guess I can't say what went on in the Hot Reserve room, but that place is a pit of negativity and complaining anyway. And people naturally congregate with their own class mates.

And for the record, most PHX attrition comes at the bottom of seniority, relatively new folks who couldn't make it work on the poverty wages, and new hires who found more suitable employment in the PHX job market which has become more and more robust.
Now that the junior FAs have a pay increase from the new contract, I think things will stabalize.
At least until the fall when the retirement bonus time comes.

PHX mgmnt is not so bad. They are just doing their job. And its not like they are out on the hunt looking for unsuspecting FAs to pick off.
It takes a lot to get fired, just like anywhere else. On any given day I can look around and see someone who should've been fired a long time ago, and there's always lots of FAs obviously out of complience just inviting trouble and confrontation.

desertgal,
...First off,...You have the right attitude for Y O U, to deal with potential AA-East xfers.

AA-East xfers (specifically referring to NYC/BOS) are like nothing you've EVER seen before, as far as militancy goes. They make US/PHL F/a's look like angels.
New Yorkers have looong had a love affair with Arizona, so I suspect you'll be getting a LOT out your way.
ANY unionized AAer (Fleet service/Mechanic/F/A/Pilot) based in NY...NEVER gives a CRAP about so-called tough management. Management there has 4 choices.
1. Go along to get along
2. QUIT
3. Get FIRED
or
4. Xfer out.

Enjoy the 'show', coming to the Desert Soon !

 

[sharonstoneseat]

If things keep going at this pace, more people will be able to flood PHX at once.

I know that my statements sound divisive, but they are coming from an east guy. I feel sorry though for the so many people that are affected so quickly by this large influx. I know that in the long run it is inevitable that people from the east come, but at least I hoped that it would happen at a slower pace, and less noticeable, just so that you wouldn't have this shock factor that is not good for anyone. AWA F/As were thrown into this merger with US, and frankly, they didn't want it, but had no say. Back in 2006, approximately 40 east furloughed F/As joined AWA, and the welcome was -well- not too warm to say the least. But what made it easier, was the fact that these 40sum were, for the time being (until now) at the bottom of the seniority list. There are probably around 15 left today. I consider this a paced transition, that allowed for the west to get acclimated to the east people, to know the east people, and eventually accept them into their family - which actually happened. But it all was because there was not this shock factor.

I can imagine (but hope it's not so) that the reception into PHX for so many people at once will not be very welcoming - not even from the management side, as they will have fun beating compliance and everything else into those east folks. (Not saying that they are not compliant, but they definitely have more guts to dare to stand up for themselves). Question is though, will AFA66 represent them in a fair manner should something happen.

It would have been nice for this transition to have developed at a lower pace, but you AWA people have nobody to blame but your draconian in-flight management team.

I will keep my fingers crossed that somehow, all these monsters, I mean managers in PHX, get eventually replaced with AA managers when the time finally comes for that.

In the meantime, hang in there, and hope that it slows down.

Look, this is a really half-assed attempt to blow smoke up everyone's skirt. You are not an East Guy and you are not a transfer guy. You don't have the numbers even remotely correct.

Your hatred of Phoenix Inflight and AFA66 is deeply personal. It was a past attempt to be this kind of clever that put you in conflict with them. I remember and I doubt that I am the only one.

Your distress at the flood into Phoenix shows a West background, and that is understandable, but don't misrepresent yourself as the Eastie seer and savior of the Phoenix base. A multi-base airline does not find 111 transfers after 7 years shocking. Hell, there were 98 PHL displacements to CLT a few years ago.

Yes, some are still hostile. Even though you are soft selling it, you are too. But it usually comes from those who see their company as a country and their job as a cause, which is not rational to start with. There will be rude isolationists, but there's also eventualists and inclusionists like Desert Gal. The hostile F/As tend to be louder and repeat the same stuff over and over to try to give the impression that it is the prevailing attitude. They are pretty easy to identify and avoid because of the constant cliches and tired slogans.

Implying a bad reception for the incoming is a crummy and transparent attempt to make the 111 who are coming into what you still see as YOUR base defensive with their co-workers, management and representation before they even arrive. You are wasting your time. You could transfer these folks to Antarctica with only polar bears, seals and penguins to interact with and they would be comfortable and contributing in a couple of days.