May 2004
Dear fellow LAX flight attendant:
By now, you have heard about the company's plans to shorten our NYC
transcon sequences to minimal, airport stays, with all layovers in the 10:00 to
13: 00 hour range, effective with the June bid sheet. Despite the flight
attendant group's collective sacrifices, and despite our continued
commitment to maintaining our dignity and professionalism in the face of recent adversity, the company has chosen to reverse our long fought for, and hard won,
principles of transcon scheduling, which, include, but are not limited to, an
appropriate mix of downtown and airport layovers, to meet the needs of a
wide range of flight attendants; avoidance of morning East Coast
departures for LAX crews; and a recognition of this base's historically equitable
participation in, and contribution to, the transcon, wide-body market.
In the series of meetings I have had with the company, and in the flurry of
emails which have gone back and forth, I have made it clear that we will NOT simply accept this latest company initiative without a fight.The company's argument is that, in order to send one trip downtown for an entire month, the company would incur an additional cost of approximately $6500, as opposed to flying the trip with an airport layover. I have argued, to no avail, that this is simply part of the cost of doing business. We are not numbers; we are people. When, in the recent past, we have approached the company for a return of our 8-behind the door rule, the company immediately assigned a dollar amount to this concession and asked us what we would give up to buy it back. (We have nothing left to give up.) Now, when the company wants to take away something further from us, such as transcon layovers in NYC, they offer US nothing in return. Where is the equity?The bulk of our return flying from the East Coast now involves morning departures from JFK, with no apparent concern for body clock issues.
Long observed principles of transcon scheduling have been ignored in the pursuit of lower costs at our expense. In arguing the issue, we have been very evenhanded. Realizing that a mix of transcon trips better serves the needs of a wide range of flight attendants, we have NOT demanded that ALL layovers be downtown. We simply want whatis reasonable. We have argued that there are no viable food options in, or around, the JFK layover hotel. Late arriving crews are unable to procure much more than a stale bag of potato chips from a vending machine in the lobby. There is no deli on the corner; no bagel shop up the block. The basic tenets of adequate rest and sustenance are being ignored in order to build the most economical schedule possible. I wonder, however, as will all LAX flight attendants, how many LAX cockpitcrews will be riding ALONE to Manhattan for their lengthy downtown layovers, while LAX flight attendant crews languish in an airport hotel, hungry, with no possibility of ever again seeing downtown NYC.
I have made it clear to management that I will be "mobilizing the troops." I
need your help. The hard-working flight attendants of this base need to send
a message, loud and clear, to management that they consider this latest
decline in our work life to be unacceptable. Please email Lauri Curtis at
[email protected]; Frank Campagna (Regional Manager) at
[email protected]; and Sean Lynch (Base Manager) at
[email protected]. Let them know how you feel.
In unity,
John Nikides
APFA LAX Base Chair
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Fly
Veteran
And you call that whining? Give me a break :down: How can this not run into an 8 in 24 though, with only 10 hour layovers?
That is some heavy-duty whining. B)
Perhaps if the whiners were unemployed (furloughed) as you are, they might see things differently.
Want to see downtown NYC? Schedule a vacation there.
If behind the door rest is so darned important, why do the FAs care whether the layover is at an airport hotel or a downtown hotel? Seeing the city can't be that important, given the need for behind the door rest. B)
I've always found adequate meal options at JFK airport hotels late in the evening, arriving from LAX. The former Hilton (now a Best Western) would always fire up a filet for me in the basement bar. Haven't been there in a year or so.
Perhaps if the whiners were unemployed (furloughed) as you are, they might see things differently.
Want to see downtown NYC? Schedule a vacation there.
If behind the door rest is so darned important, why do the FAs care whether the layover is at an airport hotel or a downtown hotel? Seeing the city can't be that important, given the need for behind the door rest. B)
I've always found adequate meal options at JFK airport hotels late in the evening, arriving from LAX. The former Hilton (now a Best Western) would always fire up a filet for me in the basement bar. Haven't been there in a year or so.
- Thread Starter
- #4
Why is it that the flight attendants currently flying can't understand that they are lucky to even have a JOB? It still baffles me that current line holders and APFA officers are still crying the blues..Where have you been John Nikides? If you haven't noticed, things are really tight financially at AA. I am sure they could care less whether or not you are in downtown NYC eating a bagel at the corner deli!..You are lucky you have a bed to sleep in.
[/QUOTE]I have made it clear that we will NOT simply accept this latest company initiative without a fight.
[/QUOTE]I have made it clear that we will NOT simply accept this latest company initiative without a fight.
We are not numbers; we are people.Ooooh Scary..Maybe you can even get John Ward to help you in this fight? He seems to be a real leader.
I wonder, however, as will all LAX flight attendants, how many LAX cockpitcrews will be riding ALONE to Manhattan for their lengthy downtown layovers, while LAX flight attendant crews languish in an airport hotel, hungry, with no possibility of ever again seeing downtown NYC.Yeah Right! Just ask us furloughs? We will be happy to tell you that we are human beings when it comes to the company and finances.
I have made it clear to management that I will be "mobilizing the troops."Last time I checked we ( AA F/A's were governed under the contract between the company and the APFA ). In that case, doesn't really matter what happens to the cockpit crews now does it? Oh, BTW, I have some great post cards of what downtown NYC looks like. I will be happy to send you one. Also, last time I checked Domino's still delivers pizza and what ever happend to packing your own meals?
Oh now...We should all be scared now! This ought to be interesting.
You know what John? Why don't you and the APFA put your heads together and discuss how many more furloughs you would like to have in order to keep your fancy NYC downtown layover intact? I mean as long as it's not you, what does it matter.
These seem to be the issues that your "union" is more interested in.
What Unity?
Damn flyboy you nailed him...the AActives need to get a clue that they have it infinitly better than the thousands of people AA/APFU put on the street.
Yeah maybe they could furlough a few more and get a stretch limo to the friggin hotel. God knows if there were any red headed step children left to screw, they would try.
Yeah maybe they could furlough a few more and get a stretch limo to the friggin hotel. God knows if there were any red headed step children left to screw, they would try.
MiAAmi
Veteran
When you guys return I'm sure you would appreciate a decent layover here and there once in a while. Thats part of why we do this job. If people want to get involved and try and protect the very few long layovers that we have then all the better. Lets not bash people for getting involved, you may reap the benefits once you return.
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
What is so wrong about Nikides trying to better the work life of AA flight attendants? Reading his letter, I can see that the LA-JFk flying is only one of the things he addresses. We need our 8 behind the door back, desperately.
From what I have read, he fought the APFA board every step of the way when they shoved the restructuring agreement down our throats. He was one of only two board members, I forget the other one, who said no all the way to the illegal vote. Unfortunately, he is only one vote on the board. We need more like him.
Flyboy, you are being unfair, and your bitterness is showing. I also think that, if you were not furloughed, you would probably be the first one complaining about the work rules AA and APFA have forced on us.
Did you also consider that fighting to get work rules back, and better scheduling for flight attendants, would mean the need for more flight attendants, hence recalls?
From what I have read, he fought the APFA board every step of the way when they shoved the restructuring agreement down our throats. He was one of only two board members, I forget the other one, who said no all the way to the illegal vote. Unfortunately, he is only one vote on the board. We need more like him.
Flyboy, you are being unfair, and your bitterness is showing. I also think that, if you were not furloughed, you would probably be the first one complaining about the work rules AA and APFA have forced on us.
Did you also consider that fighting to get work rules back, and better scheduling for flight attendants, would mean the need for more flight attendants, hence recalls?
- Thread Starter
- #9
Miaami
I coud give a crap how decent the layovers are with the current situation at AA. As long as the layovers are within contracted standards, the fact that you can't stop by the local deli and have a bagel is irrelevant. Again I will say it, AA F/A's are the most selfish individuals out there flying. What happened to actually doing whats right so the company can prosper and we can come back to the line one day. Instead, Mr. Nikides is only interested in being able to walk around downtown NYC eating bagels. Instead his sentiments ring loud and clear amoung a majority of the senior flight attendants. This is obviously the positon taken by the APFA as well. What these individuals fail to realize is that actions like these only further strengthen the cases filed against the APFA in court. I am sure the judge will be very interested in knowing exactly what deli Mr. Nikides visits.
I coud give a crap how decent the layovers are with the current situation at AA. As long as the layovers are within contracted standards, the fact that you can't stop by the local deli and have a bagel is irrelevant. Again I will say it, AA F/A's are the most selfish individuals out there flying. What happened to actually doing whats right so the company can prosper and we can come back to the line one day. Instead, Mr. Nikides is only interested in being able to walk around downtown NYC eating bagels. Instead his sentiments ring loud and clear amoung a majority of the senior flight attendants. This is obviously the positon taken by the APFA as well. What these individuals fail to realize is that actions like these only further strengthen the cases filed against the APFA in court. I am sure the judge will be very interested in knowing exactly what deli Mr. Nikides visits.
- Thread Starter
- #10
What is so wrong about Nikides trying to better the work life of AA flight attendants? Reading his letter, I can see that the LA-JFk flying is only one of the things he addresses. We need our 8 behind the door back, desperately.
Read the letter again Straaighttalk! He states the layovers are between 10 and 13 hours...I would hardly say that's just 8 hours behind the door!
From what I have read, he fought the APFA board every step of the way when they shoved the restructuring agreement down our throats.
Shoved! There was no shoving to it....There wasn't even a fight put up against the RPA..It was presented to us...Turned down by the membership in the first vote. Then overnight the vote passed...Hmmm....Where were you during this fiasco? Laying over in downtown NYC?
Flyboy, you are being unfair, and your bitterness is showing.
Bitter and unfair? I guess after two evictions and a personal bankruptcy filing you would be bitter also..Keep in mind, I too had to pay Union dues who in return is supposed to protect my job. Well we see what happened there. Sorry if I am bitter but that 10 hour layover with a bed and air conditioner sure sounds good right about now.
Did you also consider that fighting to get work rules back, and better scheduling for flight attendants, would mean the need for more flight attendants, hence recalls?
The last thing I want to happen to me is to get recalled then furloughed again...You can fight all you want for that stuff, but its time you face reality....This job isn't the one you had 15 years ago...It has changed..Who is to say that you put up a fight, win some of those work rules back, and I get recalled. All for it to change again the next year and I get thrown on the street. If the company needs to make these changes in order to generate financial stability then by all means do it...If it's legal within the contract, they have every right! I wish Mr. Nikides would focus his attention on better things like improving relations between the company and morale on the line. I hear its pretty nasty out there. Also, a little respect towards those of us furloughed would go a long way!
What Unity?
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
Flyboy,
You talk out of both sides of your mouth. You complain bitterly about the restructuring agreement, on the one hand, and then say that AA flight attendants need to do the "right thing" to help the company prosper.
AA flight attendants have given up plenty. The furloughees have given up more. There is plenty of pain to go around. I do not see us as a selfish bunch, least of all Nikides.
Do you not realize that, even with a 10 to 13 hour layover, there is no guarantee of 8 behind the door? Until we get this back, our flying will continue to wear us down.
You still have not answered my question as to whether you ever bothered checking out Nikides's and other's voting records on the board? They may have "shoved" it, but he didn't and he is one vote.
You want him to spend his time on bettering relations with the company? How about the company throwing us a few lower cost items back in good faith? Morale would definitely improve with just a little movement on the part of the company.
You talk out of both sides of your mouth. You complain bitterly about the restructuring agreement, on the one hand, and then say that AA flight attendants need to do the "right thing" to help the company prosper.
AA flight attendants have given up plenty. The furloughees have given up more. There is plenty of pain to go around. I do not see us as a selfish bunch, least of all Nikides.
Do you not realize that, even with a 10 to 13 hour layover, there is no guarantee of 8 behind the door? Until we get this back, our flying will continue to wear us down.
You still have not answered my question as to whether you ever bothered checking out Nikides's and other's voting records on the board? They may have "shoved" it, but he didn't and he is one vote.
You want him to spend his time on bettering relations with the company? How about the company throwing us a few lower cost items back in good faith? Morale would definitely improve with just a little movement on the part of the company.
- Thread Starter
- #12
Again you are wrong, All I am saying is that if you have to spend the night at the airport vs going downtown so be it....It's legal and within the guideline of the contract...You aren't giving up ANYTHING here....Its well within contract guideline what the company is doing..I am nowhere talking out of both sides of my mouth..If F/A's would actually whine about what is legitimate then both the company and APFA would be back on the right track...This letter is hardly that!
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
If you think it is all right to just roll over, and let the company do whatever to our "quality of work life," or lack thereof, Flyboy, I sure am glad you are not MY union rep!
jimntx
Veteran
Flyboy, as one furloughee to another...
You are not only wrong about John Nikides, you are so very wrong that it ain't even on the chart of wrongness. John is someone that I know. When we met, he could have dismissed me like most of the senior AA flight attendants do, but he could not have been more gracious. And, he actually listened to what I had to say.
John is one of the good guys. He fought tooth and nail for you and me and for all AA f/a's. He's one of the few members of the BOD who has a clue about what true unionism is.
And, as an extra I've had to stay at that Radisson JFK between back to back transcons as an extra on reserve. That 24-hour restaurant mentioned in another post must be something new, because there sure wasn't anything open late at night when I stayed there. The window curtain in my room had half the hanging pins missing; so, I couldn't get the room dark enough to sleep. (And, before anyone else decides to be condescendingly "helpful", yes, I asked for a different room and was told that the hotel was full. And no, no one could come fix the curtain until the next day.) The a/c didn't work all that well either. Back to back transcons with a minimum of sleep is hard on the body and the mind. Just the time zone changes can wipe you out.
You are not only wrong about John Nikides, you are so very wrong that it ain't even on the chart of wrongness. John is someone that I know. When we met, he could have dismissed me like most of the senior AA flight attendants do, but he could not have been more gracious. And, he actually listened to what I had to say.
John is one of the good guys. He fought tooth and nail for you and me and for all AA f/a's. He's one of the few members of the BOD who has a clue about what true unionism is.
And, as an extra I've had to stay at that Radisson JFK between back to back transcons as an extra on reserve. That 24-hour restaurant mentioned in another post must be something new, because there sure wasn't anything open late at night when I stayed there. The window curtain in my room had half the hanging pins missing; so, I couldn't get the room dark enough to sleep. (And, before anyone else decides to be condescendingly "helpful", yes, I asked for a different room and was told that the hotel was full. And no, no one could come fix the curtain until the next day.) The a/c didn't work all that well either. Back to back transcons with a minimum of sleep is hard on the body and the mind. Just the time zone changes can wipe you out.
StraaightTaalk
Veteran
- Sep 10, 2003
- 787
- 0
Jim,
You are a good guy. I will be very proud to work with you any day, and I pray for that day, for the return of ALL furloughees, soon.
Nikides fought for all of us last year, and I will not forget that.
Also, the Hilton/Best Western that FWAAA referred to has been turned into a homeless shelter, run by the Salvation Army, more than a year ago. So, I guess he won't be getting any grilled steaks after hours there anymore.
You are a good guy. I will be very proud to work with you any day, and I pray for that day, for the return of ALL furloughees, soon.
Nikides fought for all of us last year, and I will not forget that.
Also, the Hilton/Best Western that FWAAA referred to has been turned into a homeless shelter, run by the Salvation Army, more than a year ago. So, I guess he won't be getting any grilled steaks after hours there anymore.
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