Time Mag Article Awa Vs. Uair

FlyingHippie

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Jan 27, 2003
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Should the U.S. keep bailing out airlines? Here's a post-9/11 success story — plus a cautionary tale
By SALLY B. DONNELLY/PHOENIX


Monday, Nov. 24, 2003
Remember the airline bailouts following 9/11? Less than a month after the 2001 attacks, Congress rushed through a $15 billion bounty of subsidies and loan guarantees for U.S. carriers — which suffered catastrophic human and business losses that day and the next two. Washington first forked over money for anything that could be linked to 9/11, then paid out $1.5 billion in assistance to five airlines that claimed to be on the verge of extinction.

Since then, the bailout program has been widely criticized as wasteful, in part because it was clear prior to 9/11 that the airline industry had too much capacity and some carriers were in trouble. In this capitalism-without-a-parachute view, the demise of a carrier or two was inevitable and the attacks, however brutal, served to accelerate that process.

But the full story of the bailouts is more complicated — and more interesting. To judge their effectiveness, it helps to look at two airlines that received assistance and whose fortunes have dramatically diverged since those frantic days. America West, which was among the nation's most inept airlines, has used its $380 million in federal loans to transform itself into an innovative industry leader. Another inefficient carrier, US Airways, got nearly $1 billion — the government's largest aid package — and stayed inefficient. US Airways is in such poor shape that some analysts expect another bankruptcy. With the government's big-airlines record at 1-1, the issue of federal assistance is looming again. Bankrupt United Airlines will, for the second time, soon ask Washington for an aid package, this one totaling $1.8 billion.


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...-549004,00.html
 
I thought this part about HP was interesting. Where have we heard this suggested before but nixed?

radically revamping its business model — no more required Saturday-night stays and no more exorbitant last-minute prices.

The moves are paying off. Leisure passengers have been the carrier's bread and butter, but business passengers — who tend to pay higher fares — today account for 44% of revenue, up from 34% last year. A simplified upgrade policy — which lets anyone, on any fare, move up to first class for as little as $50 if a seat is available — has raked in $35 million in extra sales


We've always been a follower. Maybe its time to steal someone elses business model. How about the standby upgrade day of departure at the gate when boarding starts.
"Ladies and gentlemen we have 5 available seats in FC to CLT today and anyone who would like to upgrade from here to CLT for $50, please see the agent with your credit card."
 
Hey Dave said "everything is on the table". Employees give 1.6 billion a year in concessions and they still can't make money? No, not with this stupid yield management fare model B.Ben is using. Adopt AWA's fare structure and stop wishing for the business traveler to come back and pay high fares. It's the fares stupid! Want to see how stupid the fare model is? Check out this website's commentary.

Daily Travel Dish


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November 24, 2003

Is Ted really a low fare airline? Just out of curiosity I went to Travelocity to check out some Ted fares. I checked fares from Denver to Las Vegas leaving on February 15, 2004 and returning on February 19, 2004. What Travelocity displayed was enlightening. Frontier Airlines had the lowest fares from $223 to $287 then came America West and Ted fares at $311 -- $88 more than Frontier's lowest fare. I don't know about you but $88 is dinner and a show in Vegas. What was really odd in the display was Ted's codeshare partner US Airways. US Airways flight 6363 is operated by "United for Ted", but they are charging $351. Why pay $40 more to fly a codeshare flight?

http://www.anitavacation.com/dailytraveldi...ish/index.shtml
 
"Why pay $40 more to fly a codeshare flight? "

Whats really odd is that other than a booking fee?, US doesnt get squat out of it so why would we be charging that much more on a route that isnt getting us anything? Many times I've seen just the opposite on UA* flights flown on US metal. The UA fare is CHEAPER than the US fare and we get what they paid to fly on UA. I ticketed a bereavement fare for a UA customer a while back that was about $80 cheaper buying it on a UA* flight than directly from US. For being numbers people, something doesnt seem to be adding up here. :huh:
 
tadjr, I agree with you. I bought a 20% off ticket months ago and noticed a United flight was cheaper under the codeshare. Something is definitely not right with the fare structure. What are they smoking in the Crystal Palace?
 
as a frequent US traveler (because of the route structure) I've found I can buy flights directly through united.com that are operated by US that are significantly cheaper. as a paying passenger i find this incredibly maddening.

in regards to adopting AWA's pricing model i wholeheartedly agree. even though i personally don't pay for 80% of the flights i take i'm not going to force my company to absorb an extra several hundred dollars just because i'm preferred on US and can get an upgrade. i'll suck up my pride and fly on SWA or airtran. i hate doing it, but money is money.

if US wants to remain competitive things need to evolve. i'd really hate to see it go away. but if Time is right i might need to plan a few trips to Australia soon to burn all of my FF miles.

(sorry for my intrusion onto this board, i've been reading it for a while, and felt like as a paying customer my two cents were worth something here.)
 
belynch said:
...(sorry for my intrusion onto this board, i've been reading it for a while, and felt like as a paying customer my two cents were worth something here.)
No intrusion here. Everyone's invited! Thanks for the insight. The employees aren't often in that side of the ticket counter (aren't many on the employee side anymore either!). :D
 
belynch said:
(sorry for my intrusion onto this board, i've been reading it for a while, and felt like as a paying customer my two cents were worth something here.)
Welcome to the board, no intrusion at all. This is what management needs to hear from our customers. The employees have been asking for changes, but until the traveling public speaks loud enough to those in charge and they decide to try something new, we're going to stay status quo on the fares and rules. Would you be so kind as to express your thoughts to CCY?
 
Boy, when has this been discussed before??

I'm surprised that "JS" has not chimed in with his uninformed oppinions about the fare structure.

I said it before and I will say it again, if the majors do not start listening to their best customers they will have very few of them left to try to rape.

Yes, it is the fares (fare structure) stupid!!!
 
Which is more important, having the UA codeshare and the Star Alliance or changing your fare structure to be more like HP's? You can't have both. The minute you change to an HP structure, UA and Star will drop US.

The airline you need to emulate is Alaska, which does fine flying into bad weather/congested airports, has lots of flights to vacation destinations, enjoys some monopoly routes and competes with WN. They also have excellent partners. Sounds like USair to me... except they make money.
 
whlinder said:
Which is more important, having the UA codeshare and the Star Alliance or changing your fare structure to be more like HP's? You can't have both. The minute you change to an HP structure, UA and Star will drop US.
Just curious how you figure that? Part of the code share deal was each carrier was to set their own fare pricing for each market, which is obvious from some of the comments I've seen, and from some of the actual tickets I've seen. How would changing to a no Sat night stay, more rationalized fare structure have an impact on UA/* codeshares? If UA can price under US now on US metal, what would stop US from changing the way they price their markets?
 
For quite a while many (including some regulars on these pages) have argued that an HP/US combination would be a reat fit. The standard nay sayer answer has been thta U's labor coast were too high. Now that U has cut labor costs (in W-2 mearsures, if not in work rules) how about the merger idea being debated again!

WITH HP AS THE SURVIVING AIRLINE!!.... Nah, they are too smart for that! :D

Th article is food for thought. Our own senior mgmt who have stated that the era of the $1200.00 ful transcon fare is over (yet continues to charge it) should take a look!
 
whlinder said:
The airline you need to emulate is Alaska, which does fine flying into bad weather/congested airports, has lots of flights to vacation destinations, enjoys some monopoly routes and competes with WN. They also have excellent partners. Sounds like USair to me... except they make money.
The thing that keeps Alaska relatively strong, even in tough economic times, is their monopoly in intra-Alaska flying and dominance on Alaska-Lower 48 flying. This is something that USAirways could not duplicate. For a long time, UAIR's dominance in the NE could have been compared to ALK's dominance in Alaska, but that is not the case anymore.

But I think UAIR could do the multiple code-share partner arrangement like ALK does. ALK also has a fine reputation for service, which any airline would enjoy.