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flaptrack

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Aug 20, 2002
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If I have made you mad at me - OK. If I have questioned your rate of pay, alright!
But on the Eve of September 11 my thoughts are with you. The loss of your crews, passengers, your loved ones and the victims in the towers deserves our focus. You and I have many questions from that day , yet we are still alive and able to move on.
Things will get better and we will all get through this.
Best regards,
Flaptrack
 

GGpillow

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Aug 19, 2002
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No offense (something you've never said b4 I bet) but, who the hell are you to lump yourself in with "we". UAL is a family, albeit one with problems, and serious infighting, but, all in all, we are family and take care of our own. Your words are hollow and meaningless, as you have shown your true colors on this board time and again. I certainly know I don't speak for everyone on this board, far from it in fact, but I'm willing to bet many here will share my sentiments when I say "Go pound sand".
 

JI Guy

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Aug 20, 2002
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It may be a family but right now from what Im reading on the board a quite dysfunctional one at that...Look you folks have got to focus on the future...all the past is past...There is nothing you can do to change the mgmt. mistakes and employee labor costs BUT the future is HERE NOW!! Your pride or your airline - which is it?
 
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flaptrack

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Aug 20, 2002
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Dear GGpillow,

I thought about your reply all day. When I got up this morning and read it , it caught me off guard. If I was to get a response at all, I thought it would be somewhat positive.
I guess it was the “WE†part that bothered you. (I could have been part of the “We†at United, but in 1988, a back shop mechanic at SFO MOC named Chuck Jones, did not know how to read a DD-214. But that is another story!)

When I said “WE†I meant:

We, who, as little kids, looked up in the sky in 1964 at a TWA Convair 880 and said that is cool!

We, who applied to the Naval Academy to be a pilot.

We, who got an eye injury playing football in his senior year that made being a Naval Aviator impossible.

We, who joined the Navy anyway and dropped sonobuoys on Russian subs in the sea just west of Vladivostok. (300 feet off the water at night)

We, who learned how to fly GA airplanes.

We, who got their airframe and power plant licenses (1920 class hours. Same as a bachelors degree at a college. But not maybe as much homework! I know ‘cause I also have a Bachelors degree.)

We,who went out and got experience at low paying jobs , so we could apply at United, American, TWA etc

We, who got hit during the gulf war. It took years to find Aviation jobs again.

We, who lost a neighbor in TWA Flight 800.

We, (me)who has been laid off from 2 airlines in the last two years

We, (me ) who is on the computer checking job listings, sending resumes – and just hoping I can work for an airline again

Shall I go on? I was not clear to be sure, Why do we do Aviation? We love it and the money is good , even if you do not have an“Industry leading contract†or take a pay cut.


Nuff said,

P.S. My hand is raw from pounding sand.
 
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flaptrack

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Aug 20, 2002
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Thanks Bill
 

Speedbird

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Aug 20, 2002
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flaptrack:

It appears you've paid your dues. I for one can appreciate your desire to touch the sky and be part of the bigger family of we in aviation. Keep up with your determined effort to reach all of your goals. I can forgive you, now go and sin no more.
 

GGpillow

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Aug 19, 2002
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Yes it was rude. It was intended to be. Bill, Flaptrack is a typical wind up artist, who comes on here and has, multiple times, said he can't wait for us to get furloghed/run out of business, so he can get a job. Never is this behavior moderated, and I find it to be rude, and rather crass. To come on one day, and tell everyone you hope they lose their livelyhood, and then the next and say, We're all a big family, my condolences is hard to swallow.


JI.... ummm try again. I don't have any idea what was said by me, that infered dissatisfaction with management, pilots, ceo's etc. If you're gonna flame me, at least try to make sense and stay within the topic being discussed.
 

JI Guy

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Aug 20, 2002
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GG...sorry, that wasnt directed at what you said...it was an overall general observation with the back and forth on this board (among others)...P.S. I dont own a flamethrower
 

UAL777flyer

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Aug 20, 2002
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GGpillow,

I wish I could truly believe you about UA being a family who takes care of its own. While we often like to think that's the case, our actions continually don't bear that out. The only time the employees of this company tend to circle the wagons and close ranks is during a time of extreme tragedy, like September 11. However, it didn't take long after that tragic day before things started to go back to the way they were: employees blaming other work groups for UA's problems; people wanting what everyone else has; not everyone being willing to pitch in and truly help the company; and worst of all, many employees not even willing to believe the reality of our situation.

I think I know how you meant it when you said we're a family, but I only wish that were truly the case. But the sad reality is, we're only one big family when it suits us. I think that has a lot to do with the selfish culture that is so heavily entrenched at this company. I can only hope that Mr. Tilton can do some things to improve upon this particular problem. When you think about it, look at what we accomplished in the late 90's, when employees were't the happiest in the world due to the ESOP and weren't all working together (in fact, many were working against each other). Can you imagine what this company could truly accomplish if we combined outstanding leadership and vision with a workforce that is ALL pulling in the same direction and working with each other? I hope we can start to see it soon.
 

GGpillow

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Aug 19, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/6/2002 11:41:29 AM UAL777flyer wrote:

GGpillow,

I wish I could truly believe you about UA being "a family who takes care of its own". While we often like to think that's the case, our actions continually don't bear that out. The only time the employees of this company tend to circle the wagons and close ranks is during a time of extreme tragedy, like September 11. However, it didn't take long after that tragic day before things started to go back to the way they were: employees blaming other work groups for UA's problems; people wanting what everyone else has; not everyone being willing to pitch in and truly help the company; and worst of all, many employees not even willing to believe the reality of our situation.

I think I know how you meant it when you said "we're a family", but I only wish that were truly the case. But the sad reality is, we're only one big family when it suits us. I think that has a lot to do with the selfish culture that is so heavily entrenched at this company. I can only hope that Mr. Tilton can do some things to improve upon this particular problem. When you think about it, look at what we accomplished in the late 90's, when employees were't the happiest in the world due to the ESOP and weren't all working together (in fact, many were working against each other). Can you imagine what this company could truly accomplish if we combined outstanding leadership and vision with a workforce that is ALL pulling in the same direction and working with each other? I hope we can start to see it soon.
----------------
[/blockquote]


You are reading way to much into union PR and press releases out of WHQ. We ARE a family. I work at the airport. Most folks employed by UA work at an airport. We deal with different workgroups on a daily basis. Their is nothing I wouldn't do to help a Pilot, F/A, Rampy, Mech out, and I get much the same attitude from them. Do I think some of the pilots payscale is a lil top heavy? Yeah I do. Does it change the way I deal with them, not at all. When a Mech shows up with the gate with the family, do I take a lil extra time to help em out.. yes I do. (No offense intended, a lot of the mech's are a lil baffeled at times by the whole non rev process, cuz they don't deal with it 300 times a day like I do. Which is fine, cuz I can't take apart a jet engine either )
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree completely. Perhaps the attitude in WHQ these days is different, but on the line, all in all, we work together, and do what we can for each other.
Either way, I don't need an outsider on here telling me he wishes we would go belly up one day, and the next saying WE are all in this together, which was the whole point of my post.
 
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flaptrack

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Aug 20, 2002
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GGpillow,
Now from your post I understand that you are a Cusomer Service Agent? Is that correct? I thought you might be a pilot, which threw me off. I have done many things in my life , including doing customer service . Doing customer service was the hardest job I ever had to do! I do not have what it takes to be in customer service. If you have to stand up there every day and deal with people, and do it well, then my hat is off to you. Now I understand your response.

P.S. When I worked for TWA, the company realized that they did not pay their front line employees---the Cusomer Service Agents enough money. The company (TWA)wanted to give the CSA's a raise across the board. Some of us who used to be union who were now in management saw a glimmer of hope. The company recognized the importance of the front line employees: The CSA's. Unfortunately the IAM told the company that if the CSA's get raises then all the rest of the union should get raises. Sure, everyone wants more money but union and non union alike knew the importance of the first customer contact. Well the rest is history.