Town Hall Meeting In Tulsa

The Dissident

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Dec 21, 2002
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I have heard there was a town hall meeting in Tulsa on wednesday on the state of the company and they are setting us up for mre cuts in bennies. Since United just dumped their pension get ready for AA to attempt the same to stave off bankruptcy.


NO MORE CUTS!!!!!!!!!!!! Its about time that management is cut severely or shrink the airline to profitability. They either have to pay us to work on the planes or lay us off . Not pay us less. But Im sure the twu will do their part in degrading our profession again to ensure the flow of dues into their coffers. :shock:


Maybe this time those spineless yes voters will see the error of their ways and stand up for the rest of the profession.
 
The Dissident said:
Maybe this time those spineless yes voters will see the error of their ways and stand up for the rest of the profession.
[post="200291"][/post]​
Don't hold your breath.... (BTW, I'd love to be wrong on this one) :down:
 
Funny how so many are seemingly just itching for the company to cancel their pensions, just so they can say "told you so."

Of course, a couple weeks ago the execs mentioned that the alternatives to DB plans can actually worsen cash flow.

If AA had the same retirement savings plans as Southwest, AA's 2004 retirement costs would have been about double what they were. For now, AA's DB plan is actually the one requiring less cash.

Imagine that - AA doing it on the cheap - even cheaper than Southwest. Yet another example of AA paying its employees less than WN pays its employees. :D

And with interest rates on the way up, the AA plans' artificial "underfunding" will be reduced. Add the recent stock market recovery, and before you know it, AA's plan just might be fully funded. All for less cash flow than a WN-style plan would cost.

I hope you guys get the union of your choice. But I certainly don't want to see more concessions or a canceled pension just so you can do an endzone dance.
 
FWAAA, I really dont think people will be in a celebration mood doing an "endzone dance" as you call it if AA decides that more concessions are required. WE all work for the same company and hope for its success, I for one never really put much faith into the idea of a company or the government taking care of my future so if in fact pensions are lost and Social Security were no more, Im prepared and have been planning for such an event most of my adult life! :)
 
Concessions do not save airlines.Management changing the fundamental business plan may save the airline long term.
We NO voters told you so that they would come back for more! There is a reason they put up signs in National Parks that say" Do not feed the Bears".
The bear will come back for more and if you don't give it to bear then the bear will EAT you! The Bear is already eating the U.S.Air employees and getting ready to eat at United.
In 2001 in was Sept 11,In 2004 it is fuel costs.What will the excuse be next year for mismangement of the Company?
 
goingboeing said:
Concessions do not save airlines.Management changing the fundamental business plan may save the airline long term.
We NO voters told you so that they would come back for more! There is a reason they put up signs in National Parks that say" Do not feed the Bears".
The bear will come back for more and if you don't give it to bear then the bear will EAT you! The Bear is already eating the U.S.Air employees and getting ready to eat at United.
In 2001 in was Sept 11,In 2004 it is fuel costs.What will the excuse be next year for mismangement of the Company?
[post="200413"][/post]​

Nice bear analogy.

When the concessions were forced on us, one of our guys said, "Blackmailers always come back".

Or was it "Extortionists always come back?"
 
Wretched Wrench said:
Nice bear analogy.

When the concessions were forced on us, one of our guys said, "Blackmailers always come back".

Or was it "Extortionists always come back?"
[post="200460"][/post]​
the MAFIA has been doing buissness this way for decades and has been quite succesful :unsure:
 
The sad part would be to continue to fully fund the pensions only to cancel them in the future. If the company has the intent to cancel our pensions they should do so now.
 
Buck said:
The sad part would be to continue to fully fund the pensions only to cancel them in the future. If the company has the intent to cancel our pensions they should do so now.
[post="200481"][/post]​


Not so sure on that. Cancelling the plans later would give many a higher PBGC payment, and would allow some who are not eligible now to receive a PBGC payment .































.
 
goingboeing said:
Concessions do not save airlines.Management changing the fundamental business plan may save the airline long term.
We NO voters told you so that they would come back for more! There is a reason they put up signs in National Parks that say" Do not feed the Bears".
The bear will come back for more and if you don't give it to bear then the bear will EAT you! The Bear is already eating the U.S.Air employees and getting ready to eat at United.
In 2001 in was Sept 11,In 2004 it is fuel costs.What will the excuse be next year for mismangement of the Company?
[post="200413"][/post]​

==================================================

"HEY, WHOA, TAKE IT EASY................!!!!!!", I'm not "eating ANY airline" .............

OOps, sorry , I thought you fine folks were talking about me :blink: :unsure: :huh:




The Dissident is right ! (sort of).

If AA needs further $$$ reductions, it's time to implement, ONCE AND FOR ALL, (uncle) Bobby's mid-90's plan !!!!

(I fully realize that this could be complicated, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE !!!!)

Since AMR own's both AA and A/E, let A/E start flying a small MAJORITY of domestic flying,(using mostly maine equipt., using A/E pay and bennies, with AA furloughees getting first crack at "these" jobs, with an automatic flo-back agreement to the main line.
(AGAIN, I realize that it would take a "Leap of Faith on the part of APA,APFA, and the TWU, BUT IT COULD BE DONE) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop, for a moment, and think about how many BRICKS WN would be SH*TTIN', if we, as a whole(company) could put this together ???

AND,
If we could pull it off, THINK about the remaining legacys, who don't have a "trump card" like A/E !!

NH/BB's
 
The Dissident said:
I have heard there was a town hall meeting in Tulsa on wednesday on the state of the company and they are setting us up for mre cuts in bennies. Since United just dumped their pension get ready for AA to attempt the same to stave off bankruptcy.
NO MORE CUTS!!!!!!!!!!!! Its about time that management is cut severely or shrink the airline to profitability. They either have to pay us to work on the planes or lay us off . Not pay us less. But Im sure the twu will do their part in degrading our profession again to ensure the flow of dues into their coffers. :shock:
Maybe this time those spineless yes voters will see the error of their ways and stand up for the rest of the profession.
[post="200291"][/post]​


It is not only the company that is threatening us.
During a CI meeting not too long ago something really interesting happened.
Management did not use threats.
It was a union representative that spoke extensively.
He said that if this program does not work our pension will disappear and even told us that we only have a year to fix things or the base will be closed.
The fact that amazed and surprised everyone the most, was his tone and demeanor towards us and towards the middle management people that were present.
This person gave the strong impression that he was almost starstruck by the fact that he was sharing the podium with some upper management people.
He went out of his way to verbally and physically demonstrate to management that he was in their corner.
At the same time he treated his fellow workers with disdain.
He talked down to them and berated them.
People were/are very very upset with this individual.
To quote a long time TWU shop steward:

" I have been involved with unions for 35 years now, at three different employers, and never have I been talked to like this, from anybody but management.
Mr ............( upper management), did not have to say anything since they union representative practically read his speech for him.
I wonder which company job that jerk is shooting for".

It seems that the strongest allies to some very incompetent management people are union officials with an agenda of their own.
Most people believe that headquarters, must not know how incompetent management at the base is.
The good old boy network is alive and well and provides the only avenue available to a middle or upper management job.
The more incompetent you are (and thus less threatening) the easier it is to climb up the corporate ladder.
Now we have a situation where union representatives do not try to expose these people. Instead they are helping them.
If this CI program becomes successful it will be a slap in the face of all middle and upper management.
Why? Because it would succeed implementing all our ideas.
The same ideas that management has rejected during the 25 years that I have been around this place.
 
Wretched Wrench said:
UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...........What is CI?
[post="200550"][/post]​

Continuous Improvement, i.e. always striving to do things 5-10% more efficiently than you're currently doing.
 
With respect to CI and the OH Bases: why don't they agree that operating TULE and AFW at a 30% degradation of their capacity is a continuous improvement that needs to happen irrespective of the disposition of MCIE?

We spend real dollars on leases and utilities for AFW and TULE even though they are only fully staffed for 2/3rds of their actual capacity.

Going to a real 24/7/365 utilization of those bases actually drops their costs and creates holes in the AA dock plans that can be recaptured through brining in outside work.
 

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