Twu Dues At Work.

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
I had the pleasure of attending the TWU COPE Conference this past spring.

"What was the most important, most fervently presented issue", you might ask?

Was it the ATSB, and the anti-labor language in it?

NO.

Was is Government interference in the Longshoremans dispute?

NO.

Was it the TSA?

NO.

Was it the huge concessions that were being extracted from USAIR and UAL?

NO.

Besides Elaine Chao's blast into the labor movement over its failure to police itself the most energy of the Convention centered around proposals to make the LM-2, the financial report that all labor organizations must present to the DOL, more detailed. Leaders such as Sonny Hall and Rojer Taust looked like they were about to explode when they were talking about this. They were concerned that their "enemies" would use this information. Well maybe they should concentrate on using the funds that we provide with more discretion then their "enemies" would have nothing to say. If they ran things correctly such reports could be used to dismiss the claim that unions are run by corrupt "bosses" who only care about themselves.

Then again, even the old forms present enough to make members question if their dues are being spent wisely. For instance;

In 2000 the TWU International spent $192,867 for automobiles. In 2001 they spent an additional $58,852, followed in 2002 with a whopping $345,062.

In 2000 they sold $35,000 worth of automobiles, (LM-2 online info only goes back to 2000). In 2001 they did not sell any cars. In 2002 they sold $14,000 worth of cars.

Over the last three years they spent $596781 on cars. Thats a Fleet of 12 new Caddilacs at $50,0000 each. Or 24 Chevy Caprice's at $25,000 each. How many International Officers are there and do they all need cars? With the six figure salaries they command is it unreasonable to expect them to buy their own cars?The Internationals office is in Midtown Manhattan, nobody needs to drive to Manhattan, certainly not Union officials that represent Mass Transit workers. Kind of like having a UAW official buy a Toyota, dont you think?

According to the LM-2 the cost basis for these cars was $596,895 in 2000, plus the $58,852 in 2001 equaled $655,747 in 2001, but then the numbers dont add up in 2002 when they spent $345,062, it should have gone up to $1,000,809 but the LM-2 only says $728,840. What happened there?

Why are these cars sold for so little money?
Is the TWU buying cars for top dollar then selling them dirt cheap to someone who then resells them at a huge markup? Could they be selling and replacing six- two year old Caddys, $14000 to the Union and the rest to themselves? How would we know? How could we check? How would such information that included more details be harmful to the union unless something shady was going on, and isnt a shady misuse of dues harmful to the union in itself? What is more harmful, the misuse or the revelation of the misuse? Well that depends on whether you are Sonny Hall or the membership of the TWU.

Another interesting trend is Sonny Halls pay.
2000-$181,286
2001-$185,921
2002-$200988

It will be interesting to see how Sonny "Shared the pain" next year.

The fact is that Sonny is not accountable to us. He can spend our money, take away our money and never has to answer to any of us. Despite this he wants us to fight for his right to spend our money without our consent, take away our money without our consent and not even let us be privy to know where OUR money is going.

Sonny and his gang try to imply that they use money in covert ways in our interest and these laws will expose that. The fact is if I had someone there who was accountable I might be inclined to believe him, but we do not have that and Sonny's track record has not earned him such trust. The Cars and salaries alone could be examples of how our funds are used not for us, but to enrich those who have gotten us twenty years of concessions and who remain out of reach from the membership they claim to serve.

Its time for a change. Lets get Unions that are accountable- AMFA, AGW.

ALL aircraft mechanics in ONE UNION.

ALL non-certificated ground workers in ONE UNION.

As Airline workers we have given the old structure of having our respective professions being divided up along corporate lines twenty years to recover and come up with a strategy to deal with deregulation. THEY HAVE FAILED-UTTERLY.

They will not change for us, we will never have the numbers to change the TWU, IAM or IBT internally.

If you agree that 20 years of concessions is unacceptable then there is only one option. LEAVE these failing unions behind and form new, industrywide, instead of company-wide, unions. Unions that will activley seek to have us all join together in order to maximize our wages instead of unions that ally themselves with the companies we work for in an effort to give their host company a competive edge in labor costs over other union companies through concessions and paycuts.

We need unions that will fight for us, not for our employer and against us.

We need unions that will seek to get more members by actively seeking them from every airline out there instead of trying to get more members by helping their host company put the other company out of business, thus allowing the host company to expand and swell the ranks of dues payers.

The unions have put us all in "A RACE TO THE BOTTOM". And we pay them two hours pay per month to lead us to our own destruction. As Thomas Paine said over 200 years ago " our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer.

If you believe in unionism, basic unionism that seeks to elevate the living standards of workers, and not business unionism that only seeks to swell the treasury then fill out a card for either the AMFA or the AGW. Its your money, and its your right. Your dues can work for you, or provide six figure salaries and expensive cars for the unaccountable Sonny Hall and the unelectable unaccountable flunkies he surrounds himself with.
 
TWU always claims that strict reporting of union expenditures somehow silences the working man.

That claim in itself appears to have leanings toward corruption of some kind.

Any membership information regarding dues expenditure is anti-worker with the TWU.

I have actually developed a HATE for the TWU instead of just a dislike. :angry:
 
TWU informer said:
TWU always claims that strict reporting of union expenditures somehow silences the working man.

That claim in itself appears to have leanings toward corruption of some kind.

Any membership information regarding dues expenditure is anti-worker with the TWU.

I have actually developed a HATE for the TWU instead of just a dislike. :angry:
You should not Hate the TWU, but rather have sympathy for it. Its a crime what has been done this this once great union by the likes of self-serving corrupt incompetant leaders who went into office because they hated their job and hate the members they claim to represent.

The fact is that the leaders of this union always blame the membership for all that is wrong with this union, if they truly loved the members they would not do this they would seek solutions, not excuses.

I was exposed to this over and over again. From the minute we were sworn in and told "What a thankless job you have taken on", to Jim Little saying that the "Members dont really care" to Mike Bakala saying that the problem with the labor movement is that "the members are unwilling to fight, they want everything handed to them". Is this typical of what you would expect from our ADVOCATES? Their very tone suggests contempt. Does this sound like people who are going to be willing to fight for us?

Instead of telling us "what a thankless job we have taken on" they should be telling us to appreciate the great honor and trust that our peers have bestowed upon us. They should be looking for ways to keep the members informed and active. Instead they sit back and complain that the members dont "get involved" without ever really specifying exactly what they want them to get involved in.

The fact is that Sonny Hall is the product and perpetuator of a corrupt system. He will surround himself with the obedient and incompetant in order to minimize any threat to his power. He was brought up through the system for the same reason by his predecessor. For these people ascention through the ranks is not about what you can do for the "unworthy" membership but material reward for the job that they convinced themselves was "thankless".

Its a shame because at one time there was noble men with a noble cause that realized the honor they were given and felt obliged to recognize that honor by leading the membership in the struggle for improved lives, even if it meant going to jail.

Could you imagine Sonny going to jail? Let me rephrase that, "Could you imagine him going to jail FOR THE MEMBERS?
 
Could you imagine Sonny going to jail? Let me rephrase that, "Could you imagine him going to jail FOR THE MEMBERS?


Sonny has members? He is out for himself. Look at his actions. They certainly are not for the members. :angry:
 
Ken MacTiernan said:
Could you imagine Sonny going to jail? Let me rephrase that, "Could you imagine him going to jail FOR THE MEMBERS?


Sonny has members? He is out for himself. Look at his actions. They certainly are not for the members. :angry:
Well he probably has one member, nothing underneath it though. We should ask his $105,000/year secretary, she takes care of EVERYTHING for him, that why she makes $45,000 a year taking notes, and other things, from Sonny Hall.
 
I had the pleasure of attending the TWU COPE Conference this past spring.



Mr. Owens, excellent that you participated in such a fine forum, one does have to ask why it has taken so long to post this announcement. Could it be you are searching your archives to reheat and rehash old issues as the TWU has continually proven you wrong in open debates?

Mr. Owens, feel free to rejoin the TWU in our continuing effort to make the TWU the union of the future at AA. In just under three years you will once again be able to run for and be elected to one of the most progressive unions in the US of A. Looking forward to seeing you at our monthly meetings and your continued support of our cause.

Have a great Holiday Season!
 
Quote from TeamTWU. . .
Mr. Owens, excellent that you participated in such a fine forum, one does have to ask why it has taken so long to post this announcement. Could it be you are searching your archives to reheat and rehash old issues as the TWU has continually proven you wrong in open debates?


Team TWU,
I see that you are new to these boards. I welcome you. I myself have not posted in quite sometime. I attempted to have a honest, sometimes heated, debate with a few of the AMFA boys here, but it always came down to the same ole thing. All I ever heard was a bunch of grown men crying. As you pointed out in your post to Mr. Owens, that's seems to be all they can do. . .reheat and rehash. The select few of "their" followers are unable to take the responsibility of admitting they were wrong. They will try to convince you that the TWU is the "devil" and Sonny Hall and Jim LIttle are the evil followers and that there is no need for any outside support (like the TWU gets from the AFL-CIO). They seem to think that they can do it all on their own. They fail to look within. Continual finger pointing and hypocritical talk is what you will find here.

Good luck to you in getting a word in edge-wise.

And to all you AMFA boys. . .you must just enjoy hearing yourselves talk. There's not much debate between you and the TWU anymore in this forum but yet these boards are full of posts. Blah, blah, blah,blah, blah. You're losing!! Get over it.

P.S. One more thing Team TWU. . . Watch Mr. Owens. . .he's long winded. (no offense Bob!!)
;)
 
Who is losing?

8404 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards by Station and Title Group:
Updated, Tuesday December 16, 2003 at 01:17:46 PM.

twu'er,

If we are losing then why is your Local $175,000.00 in expenditures over income for the last six months? Why are they currently printing anti-AMFA t-shirts? Why are they spending so much on a Public Relations Firm trying to convince everyone to stop the card signing?

You BS and the facts do not add up pal.

Put the crack pipe and booze down long enough to face the truth!
 
TeamTWU said:
I had the pleasure of attending the TWU COPE Conference this past spring.



Mr. Owens, excellent that you participated in such a fine forum, one does have to ask why it has taken so long to post this announcement. Could it be you are searching your archives to reheat and rehash old issues as the TWU has continually proven you wrong in open debates?

Mr. Owens, feel free to rejoin the TWU in our continuing effort to make the TWU the union of the future at AA. In just under three years you will once again be able to run for and be elected to one of the most progressive unions in the US of A. Looking forward to seeing you at our monthly meetings and your continued support of our cause.

Have a great Holiday Season!
Why Not?

The best way to judge future behavior is on past behavior. While every man should be afforded the option of redemption that is only possible if preceeded by contrition (see Ma that Catholic schooling did pay off!).

My experience with the TWU has been of sellouts, followed by admission when nailed to the wall but with deflection of accountability, "the members voted for it".

I've been here long enough to see this cycle before. In fact the deferral of blame was almost immediate this time-"the members passed it". Well if thats the way they really felt then why not go forth with the revote? Bankruptcy? Bull, they altered the date to allow the Flight attendants to change their vote after they said that the time and date was set in stone. They could have altered it again. Besides, in this industry its very easy to show losses if companies want to. As long as I've been with AA they have claimed to have one foot in the grave, yet miraculously by the time the next contract comes around AA is bigger than ever. With each concessionary contract the company gets bigger and the TWU gets more dues payers. With each concessionary contract life gets harder for TWU represented workers.

They said that the company lied to us in 95 "they knew that the Me-Too clause would be unenforceable because they were already in negotiations with the pilots but we did not know it".

But now they believe every word they say, and expect us to also.

1983
"Vote for this fellas, its the best you are going to get. Dont worry about the newborn"

1987
" What? Get back all the concessions we gave in 83? If we ask for all that we would hurt the company. Vote for this, its all you are going to get."

1989
"Dont vote for this we can do better,, OK we didnt do better in fact now its worse but its the best you are going to get now so vote for it".

1995
"Vote for this, its the best we are going to get. Dont worry fellas the pilots will never agree to 6 years @ 6% and we have a "Me Too clause".


2003
"Vote for this fellas, its that or BK, dont worry we have openers".


2006
"Vote for this fellas or you will never see your pension".


2008

"Vote for this fellas, at least you will still have a job."




I look forward to running again but it will likely be less than three years and yes, it will be with one of the most progressive unions in the U.S.of A. With any luck our leaving will allow those who remain in the TWU to take control away from the sellout lackeys that have been leading the labor movement in concessions for twenty years.

What is your cause? Lower wages and more dues?
 
part of Bob's quote. . .
I look forward to running again but it will likely be less than three years and yes, it will be with one of the most progressive unions in the U.S.of A. With any luck our leaving will allow those who remain in the TWU to take control away from the sellout lackeys that have been leading the labor movement in concessions for twenty years.


Okay Bob, please tell us. . .what miraculous feat will AMFA accomplish if voted in? What will they do for me? You look for immediate and timely results. More money, more days off, more vacation, better pension, better job security????? Will AMFA deliver??? Tell us what the almighty AMFA will do Bob. And try not to compare with the TWU. Don't tell us what they won't do. I want to know what they will do for me NOW!!!!!!! And can you give some proof with that??
 
twu'er

Why does AMFA have to immediately fix what the TWU has taken 50 years to destroy?

You know as well as everyone that AMFA will inherit the concession contract.

Surely you don't use this fact as a tool to advocate not changing and do nothing?

Why should Bob or anyone else answer your questions about immediate change? You wont answer any of our questions and offer your solutions. Your solution appears to be stick with what got us here complaining and debating to begin with. What kind of solution is that?

I will tell you one thing that will arrive immediatley with AMFA... HOPE!

That's right, HOPE, instead of despair. And hope is all we have left after 50 years of TWU.
 
Mr. Owens, will you play the dual unionship role once again if elected to an AMFA position of resposibilty? Or was your lack of integrity a one time pitfall? If AMFA does not gain control as bargaining agent at AA, will you resign and go to work at NWA or another AMFA repped airline? I think not.

There is a definate pattern on this board as to the posts by AMFA supporters. Is this your way of reassuring yourselves that you have support of each other, is this the style I am to expect if AMFA does attain approval at AA? Will you expect the undaunted support of the membership that do not want AMFA, do you believe we will have a change of heart and support you after your hate process of election is complete?

Does AMFA eat it's own? Will you pick apart each and every issue AMFA deals with on a daily basis? May we post each negative response AMFA receives from management to the floor for ridicule? Can we do a search of records and have the results posted to all that want to run for an elected position? Will we have the ability to willingly throw adverse propaganda throughout the workforce as you have with the TWU? May we continue this forum in the future, and use it to launch the overthrow of AMFA as a recognized entity at AA?

Are we to see a split of the line mechanics from O/H ? What do you foresee, with all respect meant.

Have a great Holiday Season!
 
TWU informer said:
twu'er

Why does AMFA have to immediately fix what the TWU has taken 50 years to destroy?

You know as well as everyone that AMFA will inherit the concession contract.

Surely you don't use this fact as a tool to advocate not changing and do nothing?

Why should Bob or anyone else answer your questions about immediate change? You wont answer any of our questions and offer your solutions. Your solution appears to be stick with what got us here complaining and debating to begin with. What kind of solution is that?

I will tell you one thing that will arrive immediatley with AMFA... HOPE!

That's right, HOPE, instead of despair. And hope is all we have left after 50 years of TWU.

I'm just asking Bob a question. He is soooo big on AMFA, I want to know what I can expect. Hope is an awful "big" word. But hope for what from AMFA? We can hope 'til the cows come home, it won't make it happen. I have confidence that the TWU will continue to fight for me. Spin it as you will. I guess you are one of these guys who would have taken bankruptcy so even MORE of our union brothers and sisters were laid off?? Just because we are in a union doesn't protect us from unseen circumstances beyond the almighty union control.(not meant as criticism) Like poor economy, war, terrorism. I for one voted to keep us out of bankruptcy. In your opinion that makes me the bad guy. Well so be it. I would rather have a job then be on the streets. I've been attacked for my views already so save yourself the trouble.

You're right if AMFA gets in as our bargaining agent they will inherit the concessions and then take us straight down the tubes. More layoffs then ever before. That's been proven already by AMFA.

And about solutions. . .there are no immediate solutions. That's my point!!! You guys get on here making it sound like AMFA is the saving grace, vote AMFA and see results, when in fact AMFA's track record will disprove that. AMFA won't save anyone. AMFA won't be able to accomplish near what the TWU does. You know it and I know it. You aren't going to agree with everyone all the time "Informer". You want to change things? I applaud you for that. But don't get on here preaching something that can't be delivered. AMFA hovers then when things look bad they swoop in for the kill. Wonder why that is??
 
So why should we continue on the path of concessions?

You voted to keep members employed? Employed at lower wages?
It has been a continual cycle since the start of the B-scale. Keep more members employed just lower the wages to do so. The collective aircraft mechanic community is angry with the membership of the TWU at American Airlines.

What is wrong with improving the mechanic craft and class? Why do we need to trade our ability to earn a larger income for a system of socialism that keeps everyone employed, not matter the cost?
 
Buck said:
So why should we continue on the path of concessions?

You voted to keep members employed? Employed at lower wages?
It has been a continual cycle since the start of the B-scale. Keep more members employed just lower the wages to do so. The collective aircraft mechanic community is angry with the membership of the TWU at American Airlines.

What is wrong with improving the mechanic craft and class? Why do we need to trade our ability to earn a larger income for a system of socialism that keeps everyone employed, not matter the cost?

Path of concessions??? Explain that Buck. Is AMFA concession free??

I voted to keep myself employed first. I would rather have lower wages than none at all. Wouldn't you?


Buck's quote. . .
The collective aircraft mechanic community is angry with the membership of the TWU at American Airlines.

"Collective" community. Do you mean the AMFA supporters? I'm not angry, the guys I work next to everyday aren't angry. We know the AMFA guys are angry. They will go to any extreme to oust the TWU. We know that already.

Buck's quote. . .
Keep more members employed just lower the wages to do so.

Is that written down somewhere. . a policy, procedure?? I would like to see that. You guys keep using that expression.

We have been over this over and over and over. Bankruptcy. . .more jobs lost (proven fact). Temporary concessions. . .fewer jobs lost (proven fact). The best that I can hope for is that airline industry as a whole flourishes again. But there is no guarantee of that, now is there? AMFA won't save us, AMFA won't give us any more hope.


Another quote from Buck. . .
What is wrong with improving the mechanic craft and class?

Nothing. I'm all for it. What will the almighty AMFA do differently Buck? Come in like a knight in shining armor and make everything perfect?? Not likely. You guys are just mad that concessions were given. I'm mad that consessions were needed. I'm mad that terrorists blew up buildings. I'm mad that we went to war. I'm mad that a republican is in the White House. But these are circumstances that are beyond my control, your control, the TWU's control, the AFL-CIOs control and AMFA's control. The majority of the voters voted for concessions to save their jobs. Spin it as you will, but that's what it boils down to. You voted against them, you lost and now you are mad. Amfa comes along and takes advantage of your despair and fills your head with a bunch of stuff and POW, got ya'. . .hook, line and sinker. That's what they do Buck.

You are a good union man (not a good TWU union man though ;) ) looking to take care of yours. I applaud you for that. But don't fall into some fairy tale that will end badly.