TWU Fighting to take away your rights?

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
Its interesting that in the court case to be heard on July 2 one of the issues is whether or not Jim Little has the right to impose a five year agreement upon members to which he is completely unaccountable to.

It appears that despite what the Constitution says, despite the little Welcome to the TWU brocheure and what representatives have said in representational debates that the TWU feels that not only should members not be allowed to vote on who has control of interprertation and enforcement of the contract but that you should not be allowed to vote on it if they feel its better. Never mind the fact that the person making that decision does not work under those terms.

Where is the Democracy?

Where is the accountabilty?

Why do we tolerate this?

We pay Little to not only encourage us to take pay cuts, while he continues to collect over $140,000 per year, but to also take away our right, as per the Constitution, to vote on our contract.

Over the years we have always been told that the Union would never impose a contract without it going to a vote of the members, yet they are doing it. We were also told that all letters of agreement were approved by the Presidents council.

It seems that such rights and policies are only for debating against AMFA use.

The first vote was completely flawed, pin numbers were not random and since employee numbers were easy to access then so were the pin numbers. Perhaps thats why this vote was according to the TWU the highest ever. How many votes were changed or cast by someone with a list of employee numbers? Since many union officials, who would not be losing 17.5% or Holidays or vacation, or face reelection since they are appointed were eligible to vote and therefore recieved a pin number how can it be determined that they did not fix the vote? All they would need, which they could easily get is a list of employee numbers. Who ever heard of an election where you can change your vote? For what purpose was this option put in? When you consider the fact that it was easy to determine pin numbers, the underhanded techniques that Little used to put in this unique voting process and the extrordinarily high returns there is certainly cause for doubt over the integrety of the vote.

Any way, it does not really matter, the problem is fixed, from now on Jim Little, sitting in his new car (is that part of the $345,000 that the TWU spent on cars last year?), collecting $140,000+ a year will determine what you are worth. You however will never get to do likewise. I guess when Sonny Hall said that we will never use that system again he meant voting! Silly me, I thought he meant this sequential pin number, any one can change your vote, only some get to vote, AAA debacle.
 
Cliff''s Notes version of the thread that is about to ensue here:

If you''re a TWU supporter, "TWU good, AMFA bad."

If you''re an AMFA supporter, "AMFA good, TWU bad."
 
----------------
On 6/24/2003 5:27:43 PM LaBradford22 wrote:

Cliff's Notes version of the thread that is about to ensue here:

If you're a TWU supporter, "TWU good, AMFA bad."

If you're an AMFA supporter, "AMFA good, TWU bad."

----------------​
Consitutional, Democracy, and Accountability should be issues that both TWU supporters and AMFA supporters favor.

It will not be the AMFA supporter that opposes these basic principles that empower the member, as this thread developes.
 
I would say that no unionist, nor any other American should favor a Dictatorship.

Its funny how hypocritical these guys are.

Jim Little insists that management "share the pain" but where is his paycut?

The TWU criticizes the Bush administration for thwarting democracy yet they do the same.

They criticize executive compensation and perks yet they grab all they can get.

They argue for Transparency, but then argue against providing transparency, calling it a plot to destroy unionism. Instead they should say fine, we will show it all but so will corporations.

As a dues paying member I would sure like to know who got those $345,000 worth of cars that they bought last year. How many employees does the International have that need cars for Union business? The office is in Mid town Manhattan, there is no parking, the TWU represents transit workers, dont these guys use the system that they represent? Local 100 is right across town, I doubt that they drive there(come to think of it I doubt they go there at all, just like us!). Surely revealing such information is not dangerous to union members, maybe it is to Union leaders who fear that the members will see that the leaders are living high on the hog while telling them to stand down and surrender.


If Mike Quill could see that his union had become everything that he fought against I''m sure that he would feel that he fought in vain. The TWU was founded by Transit workers who were seperated among many unions, these unions could really care less about the members and simply collected their dues and failed to improve their members lives. It seems that things have come full circle.

The excuses these unions had would have been the same as Little and company sell us today, give away everything to preserve headcount, live to fight anoother day etc, dont expect ttoo much, we have to save the company, but if losing as much as we did is not the time to fight when is? Little will never lead us to fight. His specialty is long term contracts like Eagle. The long term contracts allow this unaccountable appointee to later blame the members for accepting what he brought back, "you guys voted for it". This popular tactic of defering blame has already been put to good use by their newest appointee, Robert Gless who told members that the "Presidents Council" negotiated this deal.

Jim Little became the head of the ATD without the members of the ATD getting a chance to vote on it. His rise to power was not because the membership approved of his performance but rather because Sonny Hall approved of it. Sonny as you may well know never worked in this industry, perhaps if he had his view might be different. I wonder if Sonny ever worked under a concessionary six year, or 12 year concessionary agreement. Mr Littles accomplishments make him the best thing that ever happened to AMR. Between his Eagle deal and AA he has given AMR all the advantages of a non-union carrier. "Meet the number guys". "Meet the number". Well if thats the way its going to be, meet whatever number the company throws out then why have a union? Why? So Jim can live like a King!
 
----------------
On 6/24/2003 6:42:26 PM Bob Owens wrote:


If Mike Quill could see that his union had become everything that he fought against I''m sure that he would feel that he fought in vain. The TWU was founded by Transit workers who were seperated among many unions, these unions could really care less about the members and simply collected their dues and failed to improve their members lives. It seems that things have come full circle.


----------------​


Gee, maybe it''s not a failing of this particular union, BUT UNIONS IN GENERAL? They entropically deteriorate to this point eventually...

TANSTAAFL
 
----------------
On 6/25/2003 9:50:53 AM WXGuesser wrote:


----------------
On 6/24/2003 6:42:26 PM Bob Owens wrote:


If Mike Quill could see that his union had become everything that he fought against I''m sure that he would feel that he fought in vain. The TWU was founded by Transit workers who were seperated among many unions, these unions could really care less about the members and simply collected their dues and failed to improve their members lives. It seems that things have come full circle.


----------------​


Gee, maybe it''s not a failing of this particular union, BUT UNIONS IN GENERAL? They entropically deteriorate to this point eventually...

TANSTAAFL

----------------​





  1. Symbol S For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.
    A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
    A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
    The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
    Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
Is this the one you mean?

Are they deteriorating twice?
 
----------------
On 6/25/2003 9:50:53 AM WXGuesser wrote:

Gee, maybe it's not a failing of this particular union, BUT UNIONS IN GENERAL? They entropically deteriorate to this point eventually...

TANSTAAFL

----------------

Well like any other organization, including corporations, the inability to adapt could lead to ones extinction.

Most of todays labor movement is still conditioned to the conditions of the eighties where there was still room to retreat, todays leaders ensure only that their own security and material well being are taken care of unlike early leaders who made sure that the members were taken care of as well. Todays leaders cant understand why the members do not give them the same respect that the early leaders got. The early leaders led, they made advancements by leading the workers, these guys sit behind desks and tell the members things like "it could be worse", "these are tough decisions" and "live to fight another day". What they really mean is "Hey I got mine and I'm not going to risk this free ride for the likes of you".

The fact is todays leaders(especially in the TWU) get to the top through appointements and favors not through accomplishments that helped improve members lives. Instead they are judged by how they improve the unions treasury, a treasury whose primary purpose has become to be kept large enough so that the bosses can skim a luxurious lifestyle off the top.

The TWU is likely going to have to address its problems. With AMFA and the AGW rapidly collecting signatures the TWU may for the first time face two elections at AA. They lost the flight attendants years ago. Their track record against other unions is not that great, in fact it seems that member unions of the AFL-CIO are all having a hard time keeping members once a real challenge is made or an election put out. Imagine if they had to face scheduled elections like the Local leaders or politicians? The problem with these unions is that it seems that they would rather lose the members to an outside organization than to do the right thing for its airline members. Jim Littles bungling of the contracts, the fact that the company that he hired to go through the companies books missed important information(didnt that company have a history with AA?) that could have changed the vote and the fact that we gave up more than both USAIR and UAL will come back at him. The fact that he is not accountable and can not be removed by the members will help get many cards signed. Jim will soon be a major liabilty to the organization, just as Koziatek had become.The better the company does the worse things will get for Jim Little since the full scope of what we gave up and the fact that it was not necessary will cause an unstopable surge of resentment from the defrauded members. The cat is out of the bag, he cant blame this one on the Presidents council or claim to talk about hard choices (his pay was not affected).

It should be an interesting Summer.

 
amfa International Dictates How Elections will be held!


May 15, 2003
TO: AMFA Local Membership
RE: Local Officer Elections
It has come to my attention that the zip code on the ballot return envelope used for the Local 11 officer election is incorrect. I have contacted the post office and found that in most cases the postal procedures will result in the delivery of the envelopes to the intended post office box. While I am aware that some ballots have been returned to their sender as "undeliverable" this does not seem to be the case with a significant number of ballots.
Based on that information and after consultation with members of the AMFA National Executive Council, I have decided not to delay the vote tally beyond the intended date of Thursday, May 15, 2003. This decision is based in part on the fact that three of the positions open for election have only one candidate and those persons can therefore be certified as duly elected. These three officers can then begin to provide the service of representing the Local's membership
With respect to the positions of President and Safety & Standards Chairman, for which there are more than one candidate, the following guidelines will apply. If after the tally is complete the number of returned ballots indicates that the total number of unreturned ballots could not alter the outcome of the election, the candidate for those positions will be certified as duly elected. If the total number of unreturned ballots could affect the outcome of the election for either of these positions, the balloting for that position will be repeated, with ballots being mailed on May 28 and counted on June 17, 2003.
In accordance with the AMFA Constitution election results may be protested to the National Director or challenged through the Department of Labor.
We regret the inconvenience this error has caused and offer our sincere apology to the members of Local 11.


Respectfully,
NationalSec_Sign.png

Steve Lanier

AMFA National Secretary
cc: NEC





Election Held Over!

5-15-03 Ballots
Received 340
Valid 331

6-17-03
Received 316
Valid 306

Total Members approx. 795
Percentage is less than 48% and second time around even less!

Because amfa National did not like who was voted in!
The election was held over?

Go to: [url="http://www.amfa11.com/Updates/Updates.html"]http://www.amfa11.com/Updates/Updates.html[/URL]

For Complete Details

Now Amfa local 11 has lost over 50% of the Participation! they are know repeatedly asking for Volunteers to Participate!

Is Amfa crying while doing the samething?

TWU SOLIDARITY!


visit.gif
visit.gif
serv
 
----------------
On 6/25/2003 5:45:36 PM Checking it Out wrote:



amfa International Dictates How Elections will be held!



What are you babbling about?

AA appparently is recovering nicely.

Was it really necissary for us to give up uniforms, Holidays, vacations, double time, sick time? AA is already on the rebound and none of the savings from those concessions could have taken a real effect yet, so in other words we gave them up for nothing!

On July 4th our brothers will be working 8 hours for 4 hours pay, nice job Little! Where will Little, Gless and Yingst be July 4th? As our brothers, some with more years with AA than any of those guys have on the face of the Earth are giving away their holiday for half pay will they even reflect for a moment on the thousands of workers they screwed out of Holiday pay? Or will they just see how much they are pocketing on the stock?

We should remember that if they really had full access to the books then they should have known that by the Summer things would likely be better, by selling this BS deal to the workers it would make AA even better off, it would put AA in a position to slaughter its competitors, that leaves stockholders in the know that bought at the bottom an opportunity to make a LOT of money!!!
I dont know what they knew, only what they chose to share with us but it does make a good fictional conspiracy plot.

-Airline sees "Golden opportunity"

-Union and airline make deal,'Hey lets both make money, all you gotta do is,,,,,,

-Union sells members representatives early on to utilize new voting proceedures but then switches voting company from the one they used for demonstration to one where high ranking airline executive sits on the board. (Executive retires the same month that new voting proposal is made from the airline but remains a "consultant").

-Union hires auditing firm that the airline uses.

-Union tells workers that the end is near, pulls out all the stops to give the airline the most concessionary contract in history, uses information from companies firm to"sell" it.. Concessions so deep it would make Frank Lorenzo blush.

-Union conducts negotiations on company property where company can monitor progress without participating.

-"Negotiations" consist of pitting elected local officials against one another. Elected officials urged to come to concensus."Be leaders fellas, this hurts us just as much as it hurts you". Company jumps in to assist union in the sting when necissary. Plays the "Hard Cop".

-Elected officials are kept in the room for long hours to wear them down, told by union "We have to make the company think that we are still working on this"

-Each concensus is rejected until all other options other than original one reach by union and company is reached.

-Elected officials finally agree to predetermined package. "You guys did it, you should be proud of the leaders (suckers) you have shown yourselves to be. Now sell it to your members, if you need any help let us know, we will spare no expense (after all we will make it up later, cha ching, can you say "capital gains?).


-to insure success union makes sure that some voters dont recieve ballotts, uses a pin sequence that is easliy deciphered, and allows votes to be changed, voting company insider who is also airline consultant (very well versed on plausible deniability) lets union know how the vote is going so that enough votes can be changed through the pin numbers without the voters knowledge.

-Company repeatedly announces bankruptcy intentions. Says that they may go BK even with concessions,upon news of companys distress stock price plummets. Company and Union officials suck up as much stock as possible without triggering suspicion through non-connectible means. ( Hey Vito, remember me? Listen I'm going to give you a hot tip, I'll put my house on it, buy as much as you can, at least $500,000 give me 20% of the take, if it flops you take my house).
-Problem
Financial report due out reveals that companys position not as dire as claimed'
-Solution
Diversion, Unions focus in on executive compensation as an outrage. Senior executive dramatically resigns- (retires to live very comfortably off the spoils). Union claims that they forced resignation, "Look at how we fight for you guys!!! Hooray!! Hip Hip Hooray! WE showed them not to mess with us!!! This helps to keep employees from looking too deep into financial report.

-Stock rebonds

-Its a Miracle!!!

-Employees start to realize that they have been had.

-Union deflects blame on elected officials.

-Union says "Hey guys, dont blame us, "the Presidents Council" did it!! Blame them not us!

Why bother blaming us, you cant vote us out anyway, we dont work for you!!!!

Hey, YOU GUYS VOTED FOR IT!

ITS YOUR FAULT BECAUSE YOU DONT GO TO UNION MEETINGS.

IT'S BUSH'S FAULT-YOU DIDNT GIVE ENOUGH TO COPE!!

ITS AMFA"S FAULT! IF THEY HAD NOT RAISED THE BAR TO $35 THEN YOU WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE THAT MUCH AND YOUR PAY CUT COULD HAVE BEEN LESS!!

CAN YOU BELEIVE IT? THE COMPANY LIED TO US!! THEY SAID THAT AFTER THE "ME TOO" DEBACLE OF 95 THAT THEY WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO US AGAIN!! BUT DONT WORRY,,
WE WILL GET THEM NEXT TIME!

UNITED INVISABLE!!

SOL-LIDAR-ITY La la la la lala.

2009 is just around the corner!!



 
----------------
On 6/25/2003 11:28:54 AM Buck wrote:


----------------​


Gee, maybe it''s not a failing of this particular union, BUT UNIONS IN GENERAL?  They entropically deteriorate to this point eventually...

TANSTAAFL

----------------





  1. Symbol S For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.
    A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
    A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
    The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
    Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
Is this the one you mean?

Are they deteriorating twice?


----------------

Actually, all of those definitions apply very nicely to this union.

1) There sure is a lot of thermal energy (especially hot air expended in whining) that is not available to do work (otherwise this airline would be doing a heck of a lot better).

2) Disorder and randomness. Yep, that about sums it up pretty well.

3) Loss of information in a transmitted message. It sure gets lost trying to get anything through some union members'' thick skulls.

4) Evolving toward a state of inert uniformity.. So in other words having to actually do as little as possible? That''s a pretty good definition.

5) Steady deterioration of a system or society? Yes, unions deteriorate from an active, dynamic system designed to protect the workers into the "I got mine brother" attitude prevalent in leaders and senior rank-and-file. And they cause the system to either require huge amounts of money to operate (sports, the East Coast "union" (breaks every half-hour, triple time, etc. -- the caricature of unionism) or they break down the system entirely (steel, shipbuilding)

You can change unions all you want, but you will end up back in the same place eventually; unhappy because the company can''t give you everything you want to live like kings because there is no more money. Deal with it.

TANSTAAFL
 
----------------
On 6/27/2003 10:05:39 AM WXGuesser wrote:


----------------
On 6/25/2003 11:28:54 AM Buck wrote:


----------------​


Gee, maybe it''s not a failing of this particular union, BUT UNIONS IN GENERAL?  They entropically deteriorate to this point eventually...

TANSTAAFL

----------------​







  1. Symbol S For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.

    A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.

    A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.

    The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.

    Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
Is this the one you mean?

Are they deteriorating twice?


----------------


Actually, all of those definitions apply very nicely to this union.

1) There sure is a lot of thermal energy (especially hot air expended in whining) that is not available to do work (otherwise this airline would be doing a heck of a lot better).

Expressing an opinion is now whining? So the next time you make a comment to form an opinion you will be whining.... The mechanics have not changed anything they do except respond to the moral that management has created.

2) Disorder and randomness. Yep, that about sums it up pretty well.

Yep management has created disorder and randomness.

3) Loss of information in a transmitted message. It sure gets lost trying to get anything through some union members'' thick skulls.

Again if we do not see it your way we are wrong.

4) Evolving toward a state of inert uniformity.. So in other words having to actually do as little as possible? That''s a pretty good definition.

You sound as if you know every employees work ethic?

5) Steady deterioration of a system or society? Yes, unions deteriorate from an active, dynamic system designed to protect the workers into the "I got mine brother" attitude prevalent in leaders and senior rank-and-file. And they cause the system to either require huge amounts of money to operate (sports, the East Coast "union" (breaks every half-hour, triple time, etc. -- the caricature of unionism) or they break down the system entirely (steel, shipbuilding)

You have no idea...

You can change unions all you want, but you will end up back in the same place eventually; unhappy because the company can''t give you everything you want to live like kings because there is no more money. Deal with it.

You know nothing of what is going on..

TANSTAAFL

----------------
Of course everthing you say is an opinon, so you are just whining!
 
Thank you! So it''s been a while! Do you feel this generation has the backbone to Strike? If warrented? I know I have my oppinon!
 
----------------
On 6/27/2003 12:49:49 PM MCI transplant wrote:

Just currious, When was the last time the TWU sroke the Airline Industry???

----------------​
I believe that it was February 27, 1969, at least the mechanics.