TWU vs. AMP Debate Comments

[Ralph]

This thread will be available to enable any of you who wish to comment on posts in the TWU vs. AMP debate (found in the new Debate Forum). We are just now getting the debate set up; so, it may be a day or two before you see the debate actually begin. A couple of items to remember...

1. Your comment should include the number of the post in the debate thread. The post number is found in the upper right hand corner of the post. Please do not quote the entire post. If the post is half a page long, and you want to comment on one sentence, it is not necessary to copy the entire post. Thanks.
2. Do not get personal in your comments. Each of the debaters has a right to his position and belief as to what is best for the represented workers in the future. Respect that position.

Any post which violates either one of these items will be deleted. Time off may be given--especially for violations of item #2.

Here is a link to the Debate Forum thread...
TWU vs. AMP Debate

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ralph,

You wrote "He is simply someone who believes strongly for his position and is willing to state his position on the subject in this forum.".

I would respectfully ask that the person on each side of this debate identify themselves prior to the beginning of this debate. As you point out both people believes strongly in their position. As such they should not use an alias. During televised debates candidates do not stand behind curtains. I do not buy into the argument that an alias allows a person a certain amount of freedom. To that I say bologna. I know aapitbull is fully capable of standing up and being heard for what he believes in and knowing who is speaking lends credibiblity to that person. (Deleted by Moderator: Violation of Rule #2. Last chance.) Thank you.

 

[TWU informer]

Who in the world would be foolish enough to attempt to defend the TWU in public and have their name known?

I do think however that if CIO is really confident enough in his ability to defend the undefendable then he should have his Union Officer Wife and his 680 vote Local President have the company open the proxy to this site at work and let everyone concerned read the debate forum.

AA allows the TWU open proxy to their websites from work via company computers and prohibiting AMP the same access will once again start legal action of company interference in our rights under the Railway Labor Act.

There is already an anti-AMP letter on front page of http://twu514.org/ and this letter is available on all Tulsa Based Company Computers during working hours. It doesn't take long for the company and the company union to violate the Railway Labor Act.

Next thing you know AMP will preparing another Motion for Summary Judgement

 

[High Speed Steel]

The debate has not even begun and I already see violations to Ralph's Rules of Order...

 

[aapitbull]

The debate has not even begun and I already see violation to Ralph's Rules of Order...

Typical cry foul to the people in charge, try another tatic please.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Why not, that is what rules are for...

 

[aapitbull]

Why not, that is what rules are for...

Well my Dad always told me to stand up for myself but whatever floaats your boat.

 

[CIO]

I volunteered to debate with no hesitation.

Members of this board who want AMP to represent them challanged the TWU first and then joked about it. The board became silent when they found out a TWU member had already put their name in the basket.

Let the debate begin!!!!

 

[Ralph]

Some of you are teetering on the brink already. If you think you would like to call my bluff, please feel free. One more coward comment out of any of you, and you will be on moderator preview until the cows come home. Do I need to make myself more clear?

Now, one of the debaters has already suggested that they use their real names in the debate. I have nixed that idea. There are too many loonies out there today who feel the need to go after anyone who dares to disagree with whatever paranoid belief they are holding at the moment. If you don't like that decision, if you feel you can not form an opinion without knowing exactly who is posting what, then I would suggest that Internet bulletin boards are not for you. Don't read the debate. Ok?

It doesn't matter who they are, it matters what they believe and stand for.

The purpose of this thread is to give you the opportunity to comment on posts made in the debate forum. If you start attacking the posters or each other, you will be suspended and possibly banned from AirlineForums.com.

I want this debate format to work. It doesn't matter who suggested it. It's an intriguing idea. Thanks, Eolesen for your suggestion. Try to turn this into your usual "attack the poster, not the post" kind of childish argument, and the thread will be closed.

 

[Ralph]

Well, I've already had to delete a post. None of you has sufficient Extra-Sensory Perception to determine the motives behind another member's actions or beliefs. I thought I made clear that you are to respect each member's right to his position on the topic. Evidently not. So, let me make this clear...debate the post, not the poster.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I volunteered to debate with no hesitation.

Members of this board who want AMP to represent them challanged the TWU first and then joked about it. The board became silent when they found out a TWU member had already put their name in the basket.

Let the debate begin!!!!

Who became quite?

If you are so confident about your belief of the twu's structure and undemocratic ways step out into the light and state your name. Credibility should be something you are concerned about.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Ralph,

"Now, one of the debaters has already suggested that they use their real names in the debate. I have nixed that idea. There are too many loonies out there today who feel the need to go after anyone who dares to disagree with whatever paranoid belief they are holding at the moment. If you don't like that decision, if you feel you can not form an opinion without knowing exactly who is posting what, then I would suggest that Internet bulletin boards are not for you. Don't read the debate. Ok?"

I disagree with your position that there are too many loonies out there. I like the idea of a debate and like ANY debate the people doing the debate do not have paper bags over their heads nor do they debate from secret rooms.

Does it strike you as strange that aapitbull is willing to identify himself and cio is not? Don't offer to hold a debate, (and the format of questions and seperate thread so readers can post comments on the debate is a good way to handle it), and then turn it into something the twu would do.

A debate should be between two people standing under a light so all listening can see the truth clearly. Internet bb's are for people to come and exchange ideas and using an alias is up to the poster. I can accept that and always take the poster with a grain of sand in their postings. However, a debate is not a bb it is a debate.

 

[The Goose]

Reading CIO's "historical" opening statement says quite a bit - I see an organization (the TWU) attempting to rest on its laurels rather than address present times and the "football bat" of a contract brought back for approval by the International hopefuls.

Nothing is wrong with a history lesson at the appropriate time but most of us are concerned with the "here and now" and the rather obvious "bedroom antics" of American Airlines and the TWU presently - not what happened 50 years ago.

 

[Ralph]

Ralph,

I disagree with your position that there are too many loonies out there. I like the idea of a debate and like ANY debate the people doing the debate do not have paper bags over their heads nor do they debate from secret rooms.

Ok, you've put in your two cents on the subject. My decision stands. This is for the protection of both debaters from both the union members and the company. I would add that your insistent curiosity about the identity of CIO simply confirms my decision. End of discussion. If you want to continue this, do it via pm. Further public posts will earn you a suspension.

 

[eolesen]

Looks like the "history lesson" posted by CIO is more than just a little outdated:

American, TWA, Northwest, Continental, Simmons, United, Southwest, Flagship, Executive Air, Wings West, UFS Inc., AMR Services, Dynair, Ogden Allied, Johnson Controls, Aloha, Hawaiian, Horizon and Alaska Air.

Someone might want to tell Jim Little that TWA, Northwest, Simmons, Flagship, Wings West, UFS and Aloha are no longer in business.

I'm shocked they didn't leave Pan Am or Eastern in their list of successes.