TWU

[UAL_TECH]

A battle between unions to represent mechanics may leave carrier the biggest winner


Excerpt:

Besides putting 50 organizers into the fray and knocking on the doors of over 4,000 United mechanics in recent weeks, the Teamsters' effort has been helped by an organizer from the Transport Workers Union, or TWU. The situation is unique in that the TWU also represents aircraft mechanics and belongs to the AFL-CIO, the labor federation that the Teamsters quit several years ago.

Bites doesn't it?

Probably answers the questions regarding the IBT dropping an AA drive.

What are these clowns really trying to do? <Insert Satire Here>...

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

A battle between unions to represent mechanics may leave carrier the biggest winner


Excerpt:


Bites doesn't it?

Probably answers the questions regarding the IBT dropping an AA drive.

What are these clowns really trying to do? <Insert Satire Here>...

JMHO,
B) UT

Good to see their spending more of our dues money for useless ventures. Hey maybe the IBT can send an organizer to AA when we start up our next card drive real soon to boot the twu.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Good to see their spending more of our dues money for useless ventures. Hey maybe the IBT can send an organizer to AA when we start up our next card drive real soon to boot the twu.

Thanks and keep that money flowing
Good thing that AA could not vote in AMFA or the IBT would not get the support from the AA/TWU.

Face it, The 'Industry Wide' M&R are too comfortable with their life and could not give a tinkers damn as to whom they paid their dues to.

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks and keep that money flowing
Good thing that AA could not vote in AMFA or the IBT would not get the support from the AA/TWU.

Face it, The 'Industry Wide' M&R are too comfortable with their life and could not give a tinkers damn as to whom they paid their dues to.

Take Care,
B) UT

Well I guess that the airlines are comfortable with record numbers of open items and maintenance delays.

The airlines still think they can get the "can do" attitude out on the line when they have made it that we can pay our bills.

About a week ago the company had a "MEL DAY". They cancelled all regular maintenance and just had everyone work MEL items. Didnt hear if it was much of a success but now they are sending people from Tulsa out to the line to ask guys how to improve aircraft reliability. When I was asked I told him that there was no economic incentive for me to offer any such advice. The more unreliable they are, the longer it takes to clear MELs, the more often they go out of service because a MEL has run out of time the more of an opportunity I have to recoup some of my losses by working OT. The more they break the more I make, and I need the money. Why on earth would I tell anyone to buy more ladders, bowsers, equipement, or parts when the lack of those items easily translates into more money in my pocket?

Please guys, use your head. When members of management come to your station and ask what they can do to make your job easier and the planes more reliable tell them to pay you more. Pay us enough so that we dont have to work OT to make ends meet. If they say they cant or wont do anything about that then simply dont say anything at all to these people. Tell them to go back where they came from and that even if you knew how to improve reliability you wouldnt tell them, just as the company refuses to pay us a livable wage. Why should we help the company take even more money out of our pockets? If you start telling them that you need more equipement or bigger lockers or chocolate milk in the vending machine then they go back to Tulsa believing that pay is still not a critical issue. You have to send them back thinking that we are totally fed up and could not give a damn, if they think you still care then they figure they are paying you more than enough.

Show us the money first, not just enough to get Tulsa and MCI to vote YES, but enough to get East and West coasts to vote yes, then we will talk. If not, get used to well shingled log books, MELS that become NFNFs that cause cancellations and a work force that does just enough not to get fired.

 

[local 12 proud]

AA Buy new (more) equipment to improve our jobs Bob?

You have got to be kidding....

 

[Ed Norton]

This is a classic example of "Business Unionism." Organized labor shilling for corporate america. What a bunch of scum bags! :down:

 

[FWAAA]

Show us the money first, not just enough to get Tulsa and MCI to vote YES, but enough to get East and West coasts to vote yes, then we will talk. If not, get used to well shingled log books, MELS that become NFNFs that cause cancellations and a work force that does just enough not to get fired.

Is it possible that line OT is a small price to pay to avoid overpaying the overhaul bases? Is it realistic to think that AA will ever boost the pay of the overhaul guys to a level sufficient to make you line guys happy? To raise your pay would require that AA overpay thousands of overhaul guys, right? I don't think so, but perhaps you disagree.

By "overpay," I'm referring to the fact that the overhaul work is getting done and the overhaul mechanics keep showing up for work for their greatly reduced pay since 2003 and will likely keep showing up everyday even if they get no raise or a small raise.

Think about it - rather than formalize a line COLA, which might never be approved by your crappy union or your TUL, MCI and AFW colleagues, your frequent line OT constitutes a de facto COLA. The airplanes get fixed, the high cost of living area line mechanics make more money and the overhaul guys make less money. Only big problem is that the line mechanics have to spend a lot more time at work to make what they need to live a normal life in NYC, BOS, SAN, etc.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

When members of management come to your station and ask what they can do to make your job easier and the planes more reliable tell them to pay you more. Pay us enough so that we dont have to work OT to make ends meet.

Eureka! Bob, this is exactly what my union-member-firefighter-father should have said when his brother died in Arizona and he had to take a loan to buy a ticket out to PHX. Of course this was during the days of airline regulation but hey -- the airlines and their employees didn't care because you were all fat-n-happy!

Some impressions ya just never forget....

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Is it possible that line OT is a small price to pay to avoid overpaying the overhaul bases? Is it realistic to think that AA will ever boost the pay of the overhaul guys to a level sufficient to make you line guys happy? To raise your pay would require that AA overpay thousands of overhaul guys, right? I don't think so, but perhaps you disagree.

By "overpay," I'm referring to the fact that the overhaul work is getting done and the overhaul mechanics keep showing up for work for their greatly reduced pay since 2003 and will likely keep showing up everyday even if they get no raise or a small raise.

Think about it - rather than formalize a line COLA, which might never be approved by your crappy union or your TUL, MCI and AFW colleagues, your frequent line OT constitutes a de facto COLA. The airplanes get fixed, the high cost of living area line mechanics make more money and the overhaul guys make less money. Only big problem is that the line mechanics have to spend a lot more time at work to make what they need to live a normal life in NYC, BOS, SAN, etc.

The fact remains we must spend more time at work in order to make more money. I dont really want to be here more than 40 hours but the OT helps pay the bills.
The line COLA would help but I also bet the OT will allways be a part of the system. The problem with the OT is that it is not a guarentee.

last night I worked OT. They pretty much call OT here every night.

All I had to do was lube a Stab actuator that was all ready installed and put the panel back on.
What should have taken 30 minutes took close to three hours.
Here is why...

No grease guns at the hanger
No vehicles to get to the terminal to get a grease gun.

After about 30 minutes I borrowed a vehicle from a buddy and drove to the terminal to get a grease gun.

After getting back to the hanger I went to acquire a lift truck to get up to the tail on the 777

First truck DEAD

Second truck Hydraulic leak out Of Service

Third truck started so I drove it out to the 777 parked it just right lowered the outriggers climbed into the bucket and presto the bucket didnt work.


No more lift trucks available.

So I take the stairs truck off of an A-300
But i have to tow a potable stand to the A-300 to replace the stair truck I am stealing.
But there arent any vehicles to tow the stand around with.
I go back to my buddy and borrow his vehicle in order to tow the stand to the A300

I then take the stairs truck to the tail of the 777 walk up and lube the actuator and reinstall the panel.
It is a good thing I am tall or else the stair truck wouldnt have worked either. I was barley able to install the panel.

needless to say this is a daily occurence on any shift.

Bob is correct the visitors were here in MIA asking us the same BS
The usual retards were telling them what we need. But what we need will cost them money so it probably wont get done anyway.
Weather its money for equipment or money in our pockets they have to spend and that just wont happen.
So keep calling OT and I will keep working it. Either way its pay me now or pay me later

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Eureka! Bob, this is exactly what my union-member-firefighter-father should have said when his brother died in Arizona and he had to take a loan to buy a ticket out to PHX. Of course this was during the days of airline regulation but hey -- the airlines and their employees didn't care because you were all fat-n-happy!

Some impressions ya just never forget....

So whats your point.

Are you saying we should subsidize the cost of fuel so you can have a cheap ticket

I remember when My grandfather died and we got the tickets for half price on DAL


Now you get a cheap ticket and we dont care if you make it on time or if your flight ever leaves the ground.

my bet is the service on the carriers back when your fathers brother died were far superior than they are today.
But the people of today dont care about service they just care about the cheapest seat.

As long as we subsidize your cheap seat expect the service to be ... well how should I put it...
Ah yes

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

 

[FWAAA]

The fact remains we must spend more time at work in order to make more money. I dont really want to be here more than 40 hours but the OT helps pay the bills.

And that's not right. At some point, lost free time and time away from family will cause this to be unacceptable.

As for the rest of your post: Who's in charge of MIA maintenance? Plays with Cods? Sounds like a third class operation. :down:

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

As for the rest of your post: Who's in charge of MIA maintenance? Plays with Cods? Sounds like a third class operation. :down:

I wish you wouldnt have mentioned that name
:down:

And to say MIA is a third class operation

well...
thats an understatement

but then again it is MIA

 

[Bob Owens]

Is it possible that line OT is a small price to pay to avoid overpaying the overhaul bases? Is it realistic to think that AA will ever boost the pay of the overhaul guys to a level sufficient to make you line guys happy? To raise your pay would require that AA overpay thousands of overhaul guys, right? I don't think so, but perhaps you disagree.

By "overpay," I'm referring to the fact that the overhaul work is getting done and the overhaul mechanics keep showing up for work for their greatly reduced pay since 2003 and will likely keep showing up everyday even if they get no raise or a small raise.

Think about it - rather than formalize a line COLA, which might never be approved by your crappy union or your TUL, MCI and AFW colleagues, your frequent line OT constitutes a de facto COLA. The airplanes get fixed, the high cost of living area line mechanics make more money and the overhaul guys make less money. Only big problem is that the line mechanics have to spend a lot more time at work to make what they need to live a normal life in NYC, BOS, SAN, etc.

From what I've been led to believe there is usually more OT offered at the bases than the line. What else is there to do in Oklahoma?

Line mechanics dont expect to have the same material standard of living as guys in OH, we just expect a reasonable standard such as the ability to provide food, shelter and other essentials on a 40 hour paycheck. In New York thats a minimum of $80k a year.

The point is that the line used to pump out the work as needed to keep them flying, now planes that probably would have been fixed and flying sit and generate OT. A few still do pump out the work, however thats probably coming to an end since one of the guys on that crew was recently hurt while trying to bang out an engine change in 4 hours, came back to work too soon because the company stripped us down to 10 IOD days and was then removed from service by corporate security for sleeping.

Do the savings in wages, after being offset by OT and lost revenue, really add up? Only 69% of AA trips made it out on time last year and it will likely be even worse this year.

As far as the pay rates and the difference between line and OH the fact is that the cuts that were imposed in 2003 were targeted towards line workers. Line workers took bigger paycuts than OH so the line is perfectly justified in holding back from going above and beyond(like SWA workers do) and letting planes sit. Having planes sit is the only way to get the message to the company other than quitting. When I was a union rep I can remember on several occasions bringing a problem to management and telling them of the dissastisfatcion of the guys and they would say "All my planes went out this morning, it must not be that much of a problem". I would usually say "I'll have to let the guys know thats how you feel" and they would usually back off and be more receptive.

The more the planes sit the more the line makes. In the past we would either repair the tools and equipement as needed or find a way to get it done without it. In fact the company counted on it, thats why half the tools that the paperwork calls for the company usually didnt even own. Now with the pilots being unhappy and reporting more problems it makes it even easier to get more OT. Since 2003 the pilots have been "ON Board" with the "Pull Together-Win Together" scam and they would take anything. Now they are being a little more fussy and the fussier they get, the more opportunity we have to get OT without getting blamed or targeted.

We need that $80k to survive. Even with the OT I didnt even come close to that, so I've had to work two jobs. Having a second job has a side benifit-it makes company threats much less intimidating. If the company is Ok with 69% (and going down) "on time" thats their choice, however if they want to really work together, give us what we need in 40, I am more than willing to go above and beyond to keep them on schedule. Always was.

69% and going down, its their choice, not ours.

MIA-keep up the good work!

 

[FWAAA]

We need that $80k to survive. Even with the OT I didnt even come close to that, so I've had to work two jobs. Having a second job has a side benifit-it makes company threats much less intimidating. If the company is Ok with 69% (and going down) "on time" thats their choice, however if they want to really work together, give us what we need in 40, I am more than willing to go above and beyond to keep them on schedule. Always was.

69% and going down, its their choice, not ours.

MIA-keep up the good work!

You may be willing to go the extra mile if your pay was raised to $40/hr, but I can understand if management is skeptical that others would do the same. After all, talk is cheap. But even assuming that everyone at the line stations would work like dogs in 40 hours if they made $40/hr, that doesn't address the problem in the next paragraph:

Although $40/hr would still leave you (and the other line workers) underpaid (relative to the cost of Big-City living), I don't see AA willing to give the OH guys that kind of raise just so the line guys can make a fair wage.

How do you overcome that? The OH guys have a lot of votes - and they might not be willing to take $1/hr raise so you could get a $10-12/hr raise.

 

[MCI transplant]

You may be willing to go the extra mile if your pay was raised to $40/hr, but I can understand if management is skeptical that others would do the same. After all, talk is cheap. But even assuming that everyone at the line stations would work like dogs in 40 hours if they made $40/hr, that doesn't address the problem in the next paragraph:

Although $40/hr would still leave you (and the other line workers) underpaid (relative to the cost of Big-City living), I don't see AA willing to give the OH guys that kind of raise just so the line guys can make a fair wage.

How do you overcome that? The OH guys have a lot of votes - and they might not be willing to take $1/hr raise so you could get a $10-12/hr raise.

<_< ------- Sounds to me more a Company problem than a Union one! Why always put it on the backs of Union members? The reality of it is: Is the Company willing to pay a living wage to keep it's Aircraft flying? Simple as that? :huh: