U and UA: The Domino Effect is commencing!

PITbull

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Dec 29, 2002
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PITbull wrote:
I don't claim to know all the facts about UA. Just that one could easily argue against the doom and gloom scenerio being more purposely planned than a 9/11 misfortune or consequence. Now, look at U being considered the darling airline according to Forbes magazine. I only know that 9 months ago , all the airline analysts stated that U was in the worst position of the Majors and heading for the grave yard. As soon as they hired Siegel (little over 6 months after the merger collapsed) the wheels were turning. ALL the carriers experienced the acute situation after 9/11. ALL were effected.That was the purpose of the Government Bail out monies/grants. Delta has a major presence on the East Coast as well as Southwest. You know they were especially effected just like USAirways. Yes, we have a strong market and presence in DCA, but for the loss in revenue as a concequence of the DCA airport shutdown, after 9/11, U was compensated with grant money from the government, (a freebee, no less, as part of the bailout funding).Within months, U hired these guys (who we know are Union busters and have consulting firms outside of the U corporation, get hired by our Board. I was never opposed to sitting down with the co. and giving concessions to help our co. turn around. I never thought that the answer to U problem was to gut all the contracts and get Labor to basically abrogate their own agreements through threats, intimidation tactics, and FEAR. I knew, way back in August, just through my own experience, what this was all about, and what would come next with regard to the rest of the Industry. U employees set the new bar for the rest of the industry to follow as the perfect plan.
The magazines are writing all about Siegel and his notorious team in a little over 9 months of them being on this property. They are considered Kings in this industry and we helped put them on the map; Forbes magazine no less.
I wrote out as far back as late August of the domino effect, this will now create. These labor concessions to the industry (using the same plan) is worth billions and billions of dollars to the airlines who have unions.
As an airline, losing money now, in order to get out of lease agreements that are usually long-term along with getting out of vender contracts through a bankruptcy, or threaten bankruptcy coupled with the greatest trump card liquidation, would then allow any airline the once in a lifetime opportunity to make billions of dollars in the future. This manuvering and scheming plan would, in the future, allow stock holders, corporate execs. to make millions of dollars. Why wouldn't a Republican Congress go for that. Get the airline employees to pay for the security measures through cost saving concessions. This way they won't get these pressures from the Majors to involve the gov. with this expense. The flying public believes that they won't be touched by this either. Corporations are keeping you all for last. Once they reduce capacity, passengers will have to pay for higher price tickets along with paying for the eminities. For exp. food on planes will be at a cost. U is looking into this now and getting a committee for input, along with talking with food venders. Meanwhile back at the ranch, the rank and file employees will suffer great personal financial loss to themselves and families for many years. It's all relative. When all the airlines get their fresh start, passengers will be paying higher price tickets as a consequence to reducing capacity. Only folks still riding on the gravy train is Corporate Executives!
You have to ask yourself a couple of questions:
1. Why would UA wait so long to implement a plan? Is it it possible that these corporate execs were watching how U was going to pull it off? They watched and waited. When they saw it working...all hell broke loose for UA. Same plan same time same station.They see the potential for big profits by using Labor concessions, bankruptcy, and
letting the defined pension liabilities fall underfunded to get rid of them. Anything that benefits an employee for their 30 year contribution of blood, sweat and tears working for the same co. You know today its a miracle to work for a co. for 30 years. Takes much loyalty and dedication. Now, for many, the reward is...0... to much less than anticipated.
2. Notice American and NW, CO, now looking to hire bankruptcy attorneys? Same plan, same time, same station.
3. Notice McCain trying to revamp the RLA? The worry now is that when ALL THESE CONTRACTS FROM ALL THESE CARRIERS BECOME AMENDABLE AT THE SAME TIME 6-8 years, they could cripple the industry by job actions.
4.Ask yourself this, why in hell would U spend all this time with an alliance with UA (if this management is so ingeneous) which they say is worth $200 million extra in revenues per year, and is part of their emergence plan, if UA has such great potential to go off a cliff and disappear?
UA is not just asking for some givebacks from Labor they are going after everything they have ever dreamed of in those contracts...yea, they will lose money all right. Damn straight they will. When Chip speaks of the UA situation as so severe, he's expressing, misery loves company kind of deal.
No one cares about Labor surviving and supporting their families? A respectable life is only for the rich and famous. There is no more balance.
You have the public advocating for corporations, government advocating for corporations, wall street advocating for corporations, and now even Unions advocating for corporations....WHO THE HELL IS FOR LABOR????
UA is no different than U or American or DL and CO, NW who will all follow this suit. Its a great plan, and if they have to BURN CASH in order to justify going into BK and even threatening Liquidation as the ultimate, which you know causes revenue decline, they don't care. THEY WILL DO IT! And if you think these companies will not go after the passengers for concessions...they will definitely cross that line.
It's already begun.
P.s. I have been all over these posts talking about it and it falls to deaf ears. People are so focused on what they think is the obvious. That is exactly what they want you to believe.
 

a320av8r

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Aug 20, 2002
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UA's time to rearrange leases was up on Friday. I read that the leasors could start to repossess them starting at midnight. Any been repossessed yet? It's the same scenario, who would they (leasors)lease them to?
 

Borescope

Veteran
Jan 10, 2003
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[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 12:43:31 AM PITbull wrote:
U employees set the new "bar" for the rest of the industry to follow as the "perfect plan".


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[/blockquote]

Thanks a lot, you set the bar all right......in the wrong direction. You should of had some cajones. Wait and see how we do it at UA. Our bar isn't going as low as yours.
 
OP
PITbull

PITbull

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Dec 29, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 5:40:49 PM Borescope wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 12:43:31 AM PITbull wrote:
U employees set the new "bar" for the rest of the industry to follow as the "perfect plan".


----------------
[/blockquote]

Thanks a lot, you set the bar all right......in the wrong direction. You should of had some cajones. Wait and see how we do it at UA. Our bar isn't going as low as yours.
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[/blockquote]
Bore,

That is why I posted the message above on your UA Boards.

Wanted to give you guys "heads up". I wish you ALL at UA
Collective strength, resistance, perseverance and solidarity; this is what U lacked!

 

tug_slug

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
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LMAO Bore...

Soooo...

Your going to show the U employees how its done in bankruptcy court huh?

I would think that if your going to show everyone how big your cajones are you would have started by saying no to the pay cuts you just took or did you just give them 13% of your wages because you were feeling generous that day?

Truth of the matter is even before UA went in to bankruptcy management was having their way with you. In the last round of contract negotiations before UA went into bk the Machinists had a provision that address the quality of work life.

Imagine that... negotiating a clause into your contract that says management will treat the employees better and now your going to tell the employees at U how to handle the company you work for while their in bk?
 

wings396

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
3,672
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 5:40:49 PM Borescope wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 12:43:31 AM PITbull wrote:
U employees set the new "bar" for the rest of the industry to follow as the "perfect plan".


----------------
[/blockquote]

Thanks a lot, you set the bar all right......in the wrong direction. You should of had some cajones. Wait and see how we do it at UA. Our bar isn't going as low as yours.
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[/blockquote]
Don't kid yourself on that one buddy, your bar may go past basement level...
 

tug_slug

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
550
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www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 7:53:31 PM Borescope wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 6:58:39 PM tug_slug wrote:


I would think that if your going to show everyone how big your cajones are you would have started by saying no to the pay cuts you just took or did you just give them 13% of your wages because you were feeling generous that day?


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[/blockquote]


Slug,

If I remember correctly we voted down the company's request for the pay cut. The court imposed it.
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[/blockquote]

UA wasn't in bankruptcy at the time you voted it down was it?

If memory serves me correct D-141/M voted down a proposal and within a day of the second vote United filed for bankruptcy. Being UA was now in BK the Union saw no reason for another vote.

Borescope my apologies for my previous post. When I read what you posted about cajones I took it personal and I shouldn't have.

You guys are in for a hell of ride, hopefully you wont have to go thru half the hell were currently going thru.

Best of luck

Tug
 

Borescope

Veteran
Jan 10, 2003
1,130
24
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 6:58:39 PM tug_slug wrote:


I would think that if your going to show everyone how big your cajones are you would have started by saying no to the pay cuts you just took or did you just give them 13% of your wages because you were feeling generous that day?


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[/blockquote]


Slug,

If I remember correctly we voted down the company's request for the pay cut. The court imposed it.
 

diogenes

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
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PITbull,

Very well said.

It'd be very easy for the labor movement to roll over and die.

I'd rather us get our act together and take this country back. Won't be easy, won't be soon, won't be cheap.

But it must be done.
 
OP
PITbull

PITbull

Veteran
Dec 29, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
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On 2/9/2003 7:39:54 PM diogenes wrote:

PITbull,

Very well said.

It'd be very easy for the labor movement to roll over and die.

I'd rather us get our act together and take this country back. Won't be easy, won't be soon, won't be cheap.

But it must be done.
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[/blockquote]

Dio,

Your lips to God's ear, words from a true unionist.

I would like to marry you....
 

airlineorphan

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 5:40:49 PM Borescope wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/9/2003 12:43:31 AM PITbull wrote:
U employees set the new "bar" for the rest of the industry to follow as the "perfect plan".


----------------
[/blockquote]

Thanks a lot, you set the bar all right......in the wrong direction. You should of had some cajones. Wait and see how we do it at UA. Our bar isn't going as low as yours.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Borescope,

It would do all in the industry well to heed PITbull's words here. PITbull is one of those folks who stuck their neck out to resist and oppose the lowering of the bar.

Pittsburgh base is the only base where f/a's voted down the concessions (liquidation-lightning-round this winter) and PITbull is one of those who has made a strong case for not lowering the bar here at U. PITbull has indeed been shining a light of warning for everyone who does the work in the airline industry.

I really hope that y'all are able to resist the lowering of the bar better than we were able to do at U. It will require a real strategy of solidarity amongst the different work groups and beyond your airline as well. It will probably also require reaching beyond the airline industry for solidarity!

It will also require a different attitude from the one that says "We have to do whatever it takes to make our company competitive with other companies." That road leads to beggaring oneself with the goal of beggaring someone else. It is a race to the bottom. In my opinion, it will require the attitude that a company that cannot pay its employees a livable wage doesn't deserve to be in business.

I suspect you get this. Those of us who are setting the alarm about the concessions tornado that is about to tear through the industry are your allies and your friends. Learn from what we have gone through, what we observe and conclude from the experience, and I wish y'all the best of luck and the strength of solidarity as you face the insatiable appetite of the concessions beast!

Good luck to you and good luck to all of us.

-Airlineorphan