U- PENSION PLANS SHORT ON FUNDS

[delldude]

FROM IAM AGC BILL FRYBURGER:COMPANY MET WITH UNIONS ON AN APPARENT PENSION FUND SHORTFALL.DISCUSSED WAS HOW MUCH SHORTFALL WAS....IN THE NEIGHBORHOD OF 800 MILLION..DUH...ASKED FRYBURGER:HOW MUCH OF IT IS IAM?
RESPONSE WAS 100 MILLION......DUH....WHO IS REMAINING 700 MILLION?DUH..PILOTS UNION....WELL THEN WHY DON''T YOU GO TALK TO THE PILOTS THEN? ANY COMMENT CHIPMUNN?

 

[autofixer]

Why don't they just give us what is ours in a deposit to the 401k. Then do a company match. Problem solved.

 

[A320 Driver]

More pilot bashing DELLDUDE? Aren't we past this yet?

A320 Driver

 

[delldude]

what we heard from our AGC was our help was needed for your shortfall.

 

[chipmunn]

Delldude,

As I have said, due to the double dip recession, the company no longer qualifies for the loan guarantee and requires additional cuts from all stakeholders to obtain further DIP financing and the loan guarantee.

In addition, these cuts must be obtained by December 9, which is the day the final Plan of Reorganization must be submitted to the bankruptcy court, without extension, to be discussed at the December 12 Omnibus hearing.

ALPA has engaged in discussion with the company on potential changes including productivity, pensions, and RJs. The RJ talks are designed to resolve Freedom Air issues between Mesa, US Airways, and the two pilot groups.

The challenge is US Airways cannot get any, zero, none, additional financing per last Thursday's court order until it meets all of the loan guarantee requirements.

Time is short, but the liquidation threat is now real. In fact, I understand DL, NW, and CO are privately saying that the failure of US would be a tremendous boost to these carrier's.

Each unions pension is covered by ERISA and can be taken over by the PBGC. ALPA will do its part to protect its pension and the IAM must do the same for its portion.

December 9 is a critical day in the future of the company and the liquidation threat is real, without further cuts, which would give the company access to $940 million.

Chip

 

[gilbertguy]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/12/2002 3:27:16 AM DELLDUDE wrote:

FROM IAM AGC BILL FRYBURGER:COMPANY MET WITH UNIONS ON AN APPARENT PENSION FUND SHORTFALL.DISCUSSED WAS HOW MUCH SHORTFALL WAS....IN THE NEIGHBORHOD OF 800 MILLION..DUH...ASKED FRYBURGER:HOW MUCH OF IT IS IAM?
RESPONSE WAS 100 MILLION......DUH....WHO IS REMAINING 700 MILLION?DUH..PILOTS UNION...."WELL THEN WHY DON'T YOU GO TALK TO THE PILOTS THEN? ANY COMMENT CHIPMUNN?

Chip...A320.....DELLDUDE asks a good question....how much does ALPA have in pension funds? Are his figures right? I'd asked how much CWA has but....!!

 

[usfliboi]

Chip , As i asked in another thread, if the dec 9 is such an important date, why did afa release the info in their last website msg/eline stating that management may at some point need to ask for productivity changes in the future. J Glass also quoted as saying management would not extend or seek further cuts from management. If this is such an important date ie Dec 9, and today is Nove 12 that leaves less than 4 weeks.. why would the company say t hat and why wouldnt the company be putting these requests on the fast track?

 

[chipmunn]

Each pension fund is separate and its up to each employee group to fix its problem. Retirement plan actuary information is provided to US by Towers & Perrin mid-summer, for the previous year.

Therefore, you cannot place a real-time fund market value. The problem is big corporate payments will likely be due in 2004 and 2005 to raise plan levels to required levels, thus this issue has to be addressed to obtain the guarantee.

Therefore, each individual union must address their own pension problem so the company can obtain the loan guarantee and emerge.

According to airline analyst reports, DL, NW, & UA have the biggest industry problem. In the case of UA, the UA ATSB presentation team is likely discussing this issue today with the ATSB.

Chip

 

[autofixer]

DELLDUDE, Well I thought YOU were part of U? Are U or are U not? You can't have it both ways! I personally wish corporations would do away with defined contribution pensions and let each individual have their money. That way these kind of mind games would never occur at management's convenience. Individual Resposibility = Freedom!

 

[Slam&Click]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/12/2002 10:18:52 AM chipmunn wrote:

As I have said, due to the double dip recession.....
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]

Chip -
We are not currently in a double-dip recession. It could very well happen at some point in the near future, however, it has not happened yet.

 

[lindy]

Chip,
Please quit with the double dip recession scenario.
Not one credible market analyst has categorized what is happening in the economy as a double dip. You bring
much deserved repudiation of your views when you make such
a statement that is not based on any facts. You seem to be the type of person who just loves to embellish a discussion with terms that makes one sound knowledgeable, when in fact, there is no basis for the view presented.

 

[cat 111]

Chip,

It's all FUZZY MATH.

 

[chipmunn]

Airline industry revenue models predicted a decline in September revenue due to the September 11 anniversary. However, across-the-board ATA member airlines, did not expect the September decline would not fully recover, especially with the business traveler, thus creating a double dip airline revenue recession.

While it has been difficult for industry observers to identify a specific cause, where for example UA's cash burn rate has grown from $7 million per day in Q2 to approximately $8.5 million per day in Q4, some causes are continued Middle East violence, the potential war with Iraq, the sluggish economy, domestic and international terrorist threats, short-haul alternatives, and the airport security “hassleâ€￾.

Virtually every airline and industry observer is predicting these lower traffic levels will continue throughout 2003 and maybe into 2004, creating unprecedented revenue pressure.

Meanwhile, the US AFA told its members on Nov. 5, 2002, the members of the AFA US Airways Master Executive Council met with representatives of management to get an update on the bankruptcy process and our airline's current financial condition. Management's basic message was that the airline is not meeting revenue projections that were in its application to the Air Transportation Stabilization Board for a $1 billion loan guarantee. Management said that revenue shortfall could be problematic if the trend continues.

To make up the difference between its revenue projections and the shortfall, management suggested that it may come to the unions and ask for productivity improvements in labor contracts, but reiterated that it will not ask the bankruptcy court to make more cuts.

US is required to file its final plan of reorganization by December 9, so it can have all motions in front of the court at the December 12 Omnibus Hearing. Therefore, all stakeholder agreements must be in place by December 9 if US is going to meet its fast track emergence schedule, which is considered essential if war breaks out in Iraq.

In addition, all union members have signed confidentiality agreements and cannot comment to the rank-and-file, therefore, there may be union leadership ratified concessionaire agreements that may be required to obtain further DIP financing, the loan guarantee, and Chapter 11 emergence.

Chip

 

[usfliboi]

After hearing the financial update, MEC President Perry Hayes, sent CEO Dave Siegel a letter clearly stating that AFA and the flight attendants will NOT consider the new financial crisis to be serious until management takes further wage and benefit cuts, extends those cuts through the term of the ATSB loan process (like the flight attendant concessions are), and management concludes negotiations with the other labor groups on the property concerning productivity concessions.

In the meeting, Glass said that management would not be extending its concessions through the term of the ATSB loan guarantee, nor would they be taking more concessions. Thus, your MEC believes that management does not believe the additional cost savings are necessary.

We will continue to update you as new information comes to our attention.


his is the rest of Perry Hayes Afa Presidents letter ...

 

[N628AU]

Double dip recession, confidentiality agreements, There is reason to beileve, all important date of XXX Why does this all sound so familiar? Yawn.

If it is true, and the ALPA pension is 700 out of the 800 million pound liquidity gorilla, how does ALPA plan to rectify this Chip? You can't get any more from me, I'll be in the line for the soup kitchen soon enough anyway.