U to terminate pilot''s pension to fund other pensions !

U 737 PILOT

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Feb 5, 2003
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As documented in a recent ALPA letter to all U pilot''s, the terminated pilot pension plan will provide 850 million in savings of which 580 million will go to pension increase funding for all other labor groups. The remaining 260 million will be pocketed by the company, most likely to be used to purchase RJ''s for the U commuters which will be flying routes and passengers that were once flown by U mainline pilot''s who are now in the unemployment line. The U pilot furlough goes to 14 years seniority and compromises 30+ % of the total pilot count. NO other airline comes close to this percent ! Among the majors, 12 % is about the highest ! ALPA has stepped up to the plate over and over again. We have already taken one large hit on the pension. This is the FINAL STRAW !!! You take away our pension and WE PARK ''EM !!! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Bronner !!!
 

OldpropGuy

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Aug 20, 2002
185
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Sooooo......according to you:
The termination of the pilots' pension plan is going to fund the other employees' pensions and buy jets for the wholey owneds.

There's no wonder Dave can't afford to fund your plan. That's a huge amount!!! It's obvious now why the company is in bankruptcy.
 
OP
U

U 737 PILOT

Member
Feb 5, 2003
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Yes...... that's why the company is in BK, because of the pilot pension plan.....nothing to do with the ROBBER BARRONS !!! Let us not forget Wolf's 2 BILLION stock buyback at $ 60 / share !!! Shall I go on ?
 

delldude

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[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 10:05:30 PM U 737 PILOT wrote:

As documented in a recent ALPA letter to all U pilot's, the terminated pilot pension plan will provide 850 million in savings of which 580 million will go to pension increase funding for all other labor groups. The remaining 260 million will be pocketed by the company, most likely to be used to purchase RJ's for the U commuters which will be flying routes and passengers that were once flown by U mainline pilot's who are now in the unemployment line. The U pilot furlough goes to 14 years seniority and compromises 30+ % of the total pilot count. NO other airline comes close to this percent ! Among the majors, 12 % is about the highest ! ALPA has stepped up to the plate over and over again. We have already taken one large hit on the pension. This is the FINAL STRAW !!! You take away our pension and WE PARK 'EM !!! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Bronner !!!
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i'd like to take the time now to thank you for being concerned enough to see fit that i have a meager stipend to survive on in my future retirement.it isn't too often that nice people as yourselves would show the compassion toward others in this not too nice world we live in these days.again,let me extend my heartfelt thanks.
 

simfixer

Member
Aug 19, 2002
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U 737 PILOT
you wrote,
"580 million will go to pension increase funding for all other labor groups"

Well, they can give my labor group a 100% increase in funding and nothing times nothing is still nothing. Get it? Not ALL other labor groups have pensions. We stepped up to the plate and gave ours up in 92 to "secure our future with USAir". While I have sympathy for the pilot situation, it is hard to side with them when someone like you starts hitting the keyboard, obviously ignoring the facts. Have you considered putting in for a job in U management? They seem to value the ability to twist the truth.
 

autofixer

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Aug 20, 2002
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After anylizing the MEC letter this morning, I do not see how the pilot group can continue to work for U. I realize it is easy for me to say, as I have headed for greener pastures; however, I do have 16 years vested retirement at U. It seems to me, that the loss you will take in retirement will be far more than any wages you will earn. While I have sympathy for the other groups, they have had 10 years company match in your 401ks; at least one half of the pilots will not have that option, as they are over 50 with the maditory retirement age of 60. The company is robbing the pilot group--and only the pilot group--of earned and so called vested equity. To some it may be debatable whether it is being used to fund other retirement funds or to buy rjs, the fact is the cash is there and will be used for something other than its intended purpose. This is extremly Lorenzoing and should be opposed at all cost--including the shutdown of the company. Pilots, remember YOU CANNOT RECOVER!!! It does not matter what anyone else here thinks, they either have an axe to grind or have a vested intrest (Their funds are being funded by your hard earned money)! JMHO
 

OldpropGuy

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Aug 20, 2002
185
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I don't think anyone in the company actually wants to see the pilots' pension plan terminated. The dilemma appears to be where the money is to come from.

Even though I don't agree with the creative thinking which says the funds are being used to finance other pension plans, think for a moment. If the other plans aren't funded, will it save the pilots' plan? The answer is NO. If the company doesn't buy RJ's, or replacement parts for the current fleet, or fuel or any other needed common items, will that save the pilots' plan? NO. All these things are needed to continue operations in our hard struggle to survive or only the PBGC benefits will be available anyway.

Again the question seems to be, where is the money to come from? Does anyone have a solution? I've seen much complaining and threatening, but no answers. The assets squandered away by previous managements are gone and unrecoverable.

The guys who are saying "Fund our pension or we'll park 'em" evoke the picture of a guy with a gun to his head saying "Give me what I demand or I'll pull the trigger." It's a bad situation, but you still have the most to lose without a doubt. The "scorched earth" policy you're trying to project doesn't fly! The other employees at the company will survive with much smaller losses than the pilots! Nobody but the competition wins with Chapter 7.
 

lindy

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Sep 11, 2002
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Auto..

You write "According to the MEC Letter"....Is not the MEC making every attempt to spin this situation to their own liking? I know DAVE has stated he will work with ALPA to provide alternate funding for a second generation retirement fund for the pilots. Somewhere, the truth lies between these two statements.

It appears to me to be the typical "sabre rattling/chest beating/line drawn in the sand" type of negotiation. I am sorry your pension was terminated, just as I was sorry when mine was terminated in 1992. However, I choose to make the best of a bad situation. Hopefully, the MEC will do the same for its members. Through negotiations, the MEC will have to extract the best possible deal, especially for those pilots with less than 10 years until retirement.

Just my thoughts..
 

OldpropGuy

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
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If you feel you must, then park 'em and walk away with the oil fields burning in the background. That'll show 'em! No, wait, that didn't work either!
 

delldude

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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 8:24:38 AM OldpropGuy wrote:

If you feel you must, then park 'em and walk away with the oil fields burning in the background. That'll show 'em! No, wait, that didn't work either!
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like the alpa website says:please remember,"we have 1700 pilots on furlough" who will trip over themselves to fly and work again when the others walk off and abondon their jobs....not to mention the rest who will not walk.
 

autofixer

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 8:44:26 AM DELLDUDE wrote:

[blockquote]

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On 2/8/2003 8:24:38 AM OldpropGuy wrote:


If you feel you must, then park 'em and walk away with the oil fields burning in the background. That'll show 'em! No, wait, that didn't work either!

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[/blockquote]

like the alpa website says:please remember,"we have 1700 pilots on furlough" who will trip over themselves to fly and work again when the others walk off and abondon their jobs....not to mention the rest who will not walk.
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Actually it is over 1800 on furlough. Who is going to work here? I think you over estimate the desire to fly. U is a third rate airline, with third rate working conditions and no future. I contend, the only thing keeping most pilots here is the pension. At least if a pilot went to pensionless Southwest, you may have had a future in aviation (If that is your desire). They offer their pilots a 401k --with match, and profit sharing. U is only offering a mythical new retirement.

"Trust us, we know how to run an airline...and we will replace your pension with something else."

I assure you that the pilots are quite capable of making their way outside of USAirways. So I do not believe the scare tactics and threats of the stampede of unemployed pilots will matter much. Again, it would take the company in excess of 90 days to train a scab workforce.
 

tug_slug

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Sep 9, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 10:05:30 PM U 737 PILOT wrote:

As documented in a recent ALPA letter to all U pilot's, the terminated pilot pension plan will provide 850 million in savings of which 580 million will go to pension increase funding for all other labor groups.

Among the majors, 12 % is about the highest ! ALPA has stepped up to the plate over and over again. We have already taken one large hit on the pension. This is the FINAL STRAW !!! You take away our pension and WE PARK 'EM !!! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Bronner !!!
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[/blockquote]

If you think your getting screwed wait till United and American finish with their Pilots, you aint seen nothin yet.

Once you "park em", you park em for good!
 

delldude

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Oct 29, 2002
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autofixer:i feel seigel is the straw that broke the camels back as far as aviation is concerned.he will go down in history probably as the one single person
who implemented drastic change in an industry so out of hand financially and structurally as ours.Time ought to look into "man of the year"...
every move davey makes and every change he gets with us has dire ramifications for every other carrier's workers out there.
this guy is changing the shape of our industry pretty much single handedly.as to the alpa walk threat....i don't think it will come to that and seigel will give you guys some half way contribution toward your pension.it won't be what you were figuring on getting,but it will fill the gap none the less.then alpa will have to decide whether to take it or leave it.
you won't get 50% support for a strike,either.
 

delldude

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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 10:01:32 AM PITbull wrote:

I just can't believe what I am reading.

When is it "enough"? I don't look at this managment as any kind of heros of the Industry. I look at them as Pirates who raided all of us of everything we ever worked for and only thing that is left is a barely livable wage.

None of us have the ability to do a job action, otherwise, the picture may look different. Why else do you think there is this huge movement by Senator McCain to amend the RLA?

Why in God's name do people think that no body can go out there and either a) get another decent paying job, or B) open up a business? Why does most of this board sound so beaten down that they can't live without U? And don't start with the attacking and say "go find another job" cause 85% of the 4,700 f/as on Voluntary furlough are doing just that. Many many have extended their furlough on purpose. So don't give me cowardly answers.

I don't understand you folks. Thank god we are not living in the 1700. The American Revolution was fought over Independence from King George and the impedus to the Revolution was over Tea Tax. If you all were living then, I'd be seeing on this board, "Hey, live to fight another day", or "Better to just drink hot milk and just don't buy the tea", and forget going to battle.

If you think of the Civil Rights Movement, what would it be like if Rosa Parks WENT to the back of the bus as she was told....instead of not?

Yea, guess we're lucky our forefathers fought the Revolution instead of us and gave us our Independence and a Constitution so we could behave just like we do; afraid of protest or worse yet, critisize those that do.
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i think you need theme music[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif']
 

PITbull

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Dec 29, 2002
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I just can't believe what I am reading.

When is it "enough"? I don't look at this managment as any kind of heros of the Industry. I look at them as Pirates who raided all of us of everything we ever worked by bulling us with fear tactics and made this their "viable plan".Only thing that is left for most is a barely livable wage.

None of us have the ability to do a job action, otherwise, the picture may look different. Why else do you think there is this huge movement by Senator McCain to amend the RLA?

Why in God's name do people think that no body can go out there and either a) get another decent paying job, or B) open up a business? Why does most of this board sound so beaten down that they can't live without U? And don't start with the attacking and say "go find another job" cause 85% of the 4,700 f/as on Voluntary furlough are doing just that. Many many have extended their furlough on purpose. So don't give me cowardly answers.

I don't understand you folks. Thank god we are not living in the 1700. The American Revolution was fought over Independence from King George and the impedus to the Revolution was over Tea Tax. If you all were living then, I'd be seeing on this board, "Hey, live to fight another day", or "Better to just drink hot milk and just don't buy the tea", and forget going to battle.

If you think of the Civil Rights Movement, what would it be like if Rosa Parks WENT to the back of the bus as she was told....instead of not?

Yea, guess we're lucky our forefathers fought the Revolution instead of us and gave us our Independence and a Constitution so we could behave just like we do; afraid of protest or worse yet, critisize those that do.