BillLumbergh
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UAL flight attendants oppose worker bonus plan
UAL flight attendants oppose worker bonus plan
- Thread starter BillLumbergh
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On 7/8/2003 3:35:39 PM BillLumbergh wrote:
UAL flight attendants oppose worker bonus plan
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Good for the AFA ! Where''s the IAM and ALPA ?? This kind of sleaziness sickens me. There is NOBODY that cannot be replaced ! If these people believe they can walk on water, let them walk right out the door ! Usairways pulled the same stunt ! [Took the airline to bankrupcy,,RAPED the employees, Then turned right around and had some slimy judge OK $6 MILLION DOLLARS to a bunch of [so-called]key employees. [Not to mention the $35 MILLION DOLLAR golden parachutes for 3 outgoing executives ! ] Wolf,Gangwal & Nagin..Seems like these companies can always come up with $$$$$ when it suits their own purpose.On 7/8/2003 3:35:39 PM BillLumbergh wrote:
UAL flight attendants oppose worker bonus plan
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N230UA
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Hmmm... without bonuses, UAL will not have enough IT employees, and as a result its effectiveness in the internet marketblace (where most of the transactions for airline tickets are transitioning to) will decline rapidly.
UAL needs those employees for its very survival.
UAL needs those employees for its very survival.
Rational Thought
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On 7/8/2003 7:41:37 PM Fly wrote:
Excuse me for disagreeing but.................hello McFly, unemployment is up and the tech market is the MAIN reason. Soooooo, do you NOT believe we can hire someone, who also owns a pocket protector, to do these jobs?
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On 7/8/2003 7:41:37 PM Fly wrote:
Excuse me for disagreeing but.................hello McFly, unemployment is up and the tech market is the MAIN reason. Soooooo, do you NOT believe we can hire someone, who also owns a pocket protector, to do these jobs?
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Main reason? Unlikely. Yes, the economy overinvested in capacity and what you are experiencing is a capacity overhang being unwound, but that doesn''t mean:
a). that all tech skills are in oversupply
B). that UAL tech skill wages are at or above industry norms
c). that airline specific technology skills are in oversupply
d). that tech skills in areas that UAL operates are in oversupply
Their may be extra resources in San Fran, but not in Chicago. Y
Your analysis is simplistic, but not unexpected.
I can remember talking with a female analyst a few years ago. She had begged for funding to upgrade unimatic..it was denied. She left. Again, management decisions. You can have all the smart people you want, but if they are working with a difficult, outmoded system with no hope in sight, they will move on.
Trust me with the job market the way it is today by letting them go we just might be able to pick a few people that are even "geeker" or better than the ones we're so afraid of losing. Hundreds of thousands of dot.comers out of work and UAL is afraid of not being able to find anyone.
And I love this part of the article:
<<About 16% of United's 1,100 ISD employees left in the first half of 2003, compared with a normal attrition rate of 6.3%, according to the bankruptcy court filing. Company-wide, about 11% of all technical, professional and managerial employees left in the first half of the year.
>>>
We filed bankruptcy--what in-demand geek would stay with a company with a dubious future, especially in that time frame?
Maybe these brains needed to be drained.
IF the upper management REALLY feels that it is ultimately necessary to hang on to those computer geeks, they themselves should take additional paycuts to support this KERP endeavor. What is a few percent of their million $$$'s paycheck?
I do hope the Bankrutcy Court Judge will see the irony and ridiculousness of giving some employees extra bonus, while demanding concession on other employees.
Trust me with the job market the way it is today by letting them go we just might be able to pick a few people that are even "geeker" or better than the ones we're so afraid of losing. Hundreds of thousands of dot.comers out of work and UAL is afraid of not being able to find anyone.
And I love this part of the article:
<<About 16% of United's 1,100 ISD employees left in the first half of 2003, compared with a normal attrition rate of 6.3%, according to the bankruptcy court filing. Company-wide, about 11% of all technical, professional and managerial employees left in the first half of the year.
>>>
We filed bankruptcy--what in-demand geek would stay with a company with a dubious future, especially in that time frame?
Maybe these brains needed to be drained.
IF the upper management REALLY feels that it is ultimately necessary to hang on to those computer geeks, they themselves should take additional paycuts to support this KERP endeavor. What is a few percent of their million $$$'s paycheck?
I do hope the Bankrutcy Court Judge will see the irony and ridiculousness of giving some employees extra bonus, while demanding concession on other employees.
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On 7/9/2003 7:39:01 AM Fly wrote:
We filed bankruptcy--what in-demand geek would stay with a company with a dubious future, especially in that time frame?
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On 7/9/2003 7:39:01 AM Fly wrote:
We filed bankruptcy--what in-demand geek would stay with a company with a dubious future, especially in that time frame?
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You captured the essence here. Even more so, who would come to a company with a dubious future? In the end, its easier and cheaper to keep your own people on with some financial incentive.
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On 7/9/2003 6:02:19 AM Rational Thought wrote:
Main reason? Unlikely. Yes, the economy overinvested in capacity and what you are experiencing is a capacity overhang being unwound, but that doesn''t mean:
a). that all tech skills are in oversupply
B). that UAL tech skill wages are at or above industry norms
c). that airline specific technology skills are in oversupply
d). that tech skills in areas that UAL operates are in oversupply
Their may be extra resources in San Fran, but not in Chicago. Y
Your analysis is simplistic, but not unexpected.
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H-e-l-l-o, Anybody in there ?? In case anyone has forgotten, This company is in bankrupcy...Hundreds of people are laid off for good,,The people that are left have and are still taking HUGE concessions..This kind of behavior by management is needlessy driving the wedge further into the divide.. So go ahead,get your [in the pocket]judge to OK these bonuses for a chosen few..I''m sure this decision will work wonders in the already depleted MORALE department...On 7/9/2003 6:02:19 AM Rational Thought wrote:
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On 7/8/2003 7:41:37 PM Fly wrote:
Excuse me for disagreeing but.................hello McFly, unemployment is up and the tech market is the MAIN reason. Soooooo, do you NOT believe we can hire someone, who also owns a pocket protector, to do these jobs?
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On 7/8/2003 7:41:37 PM Fly wrote:
Excuse me for disagreeing but.................hello McFly, unemployment is up and the tech market is the MAIN reason. Soooooo, do you NOT believe we can hire someone, who also owns a pocket protector, to do these jobs?
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Main reason? Unlikely. Yes, the economy overinvested in capacity and what you are experiencing is a capacity overhang being unwound, but that doesn''t mean:
a). that all tech skills are in oversupply
B). that UAL tech skill wages are at or above industry norms
c). that airline specific technology skills are in oversupply
d). that tech skills in areas that UAL operates are in oversupply
Their may be extra resources in San Fran, but not in Chicago. Y
Your analysis is simplistic, but not unexpected.
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On 7/9/2003 7:17:13 PM insp89 wrote:
H-e-l-l-o, Anybody in there ?? In case anyone has forgotten, This company is in bankrupcy...Hundreds of people are laid off for good,,The people that are left have and are still taking HUGE concessions..This kind of behavior by management is needlessy driving the wedge further into the divide.. So go ahead,get your [in the pocket]judge to OK these bonuses for a chosen few..I''m sure this decision will work wonders in the already depleted MORALE department...
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On 7/9/2003 7:17:13 PM insp89 wrote:
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On 7/9/2003 6:02:19 AM Rational Thought wrote:
Main reason? Unlikely. Yes, the economy overinvested in capacity and what you are experiencing is a capacity overhang being unwound, but that doesn''t mean:
a). that all tech skills are in oversupply
B). that UAL tech skill wages are at or above industry norms
c). that airline specific technology skills are in oversupply
d). that tech skills in areas that UAL operates are in oversupply
Their may be extra resources in San Fran, but not in Chicago. Y
Your analysis is simplistic, but not unexpected.
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On 7/9/2003 6:02:19 AM Rational Thought wrote:
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On 7/8/2003 7:41:37 PM Fly wrote:
Excuse me for disagreeing but.................hello McFly, unemployment is up and the tech market is the MAIN reason. Soooooo, do you NOT believe we can hire someone, who also owns a pocket protector, to do these jobs?
----------------
On 7/8/2003 7:41:37 PM Fly wrote:
Excuse me for disagreeing but.................hello McFly, unemployment is up and the tech market is the MAIN reason. Soooooo, do you NOT believe we can hire someone, who also owns a pocket protector, to do these jobs?
----------------
Main reason? Unlikely. Yes, the economy overinvested in capacity and what you are experiencing is a capacity overhang being unwound, but that doesn''t mean:
a). that all tech skills are in oversupply
B). that UAL tech skill wages are at or above industry norms
c). that airline specific technology skills are in oversupply
d). that tech skills in areas that UAL operates are in oversupply
Their may be extra resources in San Fran, but not in Chicago. Y
Your analysis is simplistic, but not unexpected.
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H-e-l-l-o, Anybody in there ?? In case anyone has forgotten, This company is in bankrupcy...Hundreds of people are laid off for good,,The people that are left have and are still taking HUGE concessions..This kind of behavior by management is needlessy driving the wedge further into the divide.. So go ahead,get your [in the pocket]judge to OK these bonuses for a chosen few..I''m sure this decision will work wonders in the already depleted MORALE department...
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Here''s the kicker for all the bright people out there who think they are worth something.
If you are in a profession that will pay higher wages and they are kept high by the amount of people in those professions, you can get the bonuses.
This is the tech field right now for computer people at Ual.
I am sure they did not take a big hit on lay-offs, but took the same pay decreases as everyone else.
They went to other jobs that would pay as much or more than what they were making at Ual. Ual tries to hire replacements and finds no one willing to work for the wage they want to pay, so they are short in a critical field.
They can''t afford to lose more of these workers, so they bring wages back up to a point they will stay and others will hire on for.
For the groups that aren''t getting these bonuses, maybe you should be grateful to have a job. And count yourself as lucky.
Rational Thought
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On 7/9/2003 7:17:13 PM insp89 wrote:
H-e-l-l-o, Anybody in there ?? In case anyone has forgotten, This company is in bankrupcy...Hundreds of people are laid off for good,,The people that are left have and are still taking HUGE concessions..This kind of behavior by management is needlessy driving the wedge further into the divide.. So go ahead,get your [in the pocket]judge to OK these bonuses for a chosen few..I'm sure this decision will work wonders in the already depleted MORALE department...
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On 7/9/2003 7:17:13 PM insp89 wrote:
H-e-l-l-o, Anybody in there ?? In case anyone has forgotten, This company is in bankrupcy...Hundreds of people are laid off for good,,The people that are left have and are still taking HUGE concessions..This kind of behavior by management is needlessy driving the wedge further into the divide.. So go ahead,get your [in the pocket]judge to OK these bonuses for a chosen few..I'm sure this decision will work wonders in the already depleted MORALE department...
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The wedge is only being driven by those who so choose to see everything through the prism of organized labor. For a company to exit bankruptcy, it must have a viable business model. If it doesn't, it should be liquidated. In order to have a viable business model, you will need technical staff. You may pretend that UAL doesn't or that a programmer is as interchangeable as a ramper, but they are not. That's the fact. Furthermore, for technical employees, the wage rate is set by the market and not by contract. The reason that union employees are taking a paycut is that their wage rate needed to be recalibrated to account for lower revenues. Everyone who takes a paycut has the opportunity to seek alternative employment. The problem with unionized airline employees is that for the most part, their skills are industry specific and their wages tied to seniority. The wages for a programmer are neither.
The labor unions are making political hay out of this. Any rational person with one course in economics can see what is happening and the logic behind.
No wedges. No conspiracies. Just the market at work.
Seniority is the evil glue that holds the organized labor thing together.
Problem is, it is no longer practical in this day in age to not only pin your entire future on one career, but to one company. Competition is intense and businesses come and go.
Imagine anywone being able to pick long term winners in any business sector - If I could do that, then I would be like Warren Buffett.
Problem is, it is no longer practical in this day in age to not only pin your entire future on one career, but to one company. Competition is intense and businesses come and go.
Imagine anywone being able to pick long term winners in any business sector - If I could do that, then I would be like Warren Buffett.
I haven''t posted anything here in quite sometime, been way to busy with that dubious "second career". United is only my night job now after all these years, not my career or the future per se, just a second job that pays decent for what it is at the hours I have to be there. For what it''s worth, I had a friend at United that had more senority than me. He left our area and went into the "tech field". He literally wrote the entire program for our overtime, which automated the entire system. It had been done by hand since I ever had been at UAL. He wrote the bid programs, set up the websites we all view today etc etc. Very talented, very smart guy with a masters degree in programming. He looked for quite awhile to find another job while working at the lazy U. We all thought he could have been the next software millionare in the big boomtime and that he was wasting his time at United. It''s hard to leave the United nipple, but he finally left for just a little more money than he was making here. This bonus money would not have changed his mind. After all this crap we all have endured, after watching countless inept individuals who McDonalds wouldn''t hire make managerial decisions that have no business application, he departed. He set up my website and boosted my business 100%, now I have enough going that United is just a fart in the wind. And as uncertain a times we all live in, when I spoke to him last he said leaving was the best thing he had ever done. He is respected, valued and appreciated where he is. I wish him all the best.
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On 7/8/2003 6:38:27 PM insp89 wrote:
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The IAM always wants to go off on their own and ALPA....... what can you say. They never had the backbone and never will. Their not a true union in the sense. thus the name Airline Pilots "ASSOCIATION" shouldn''t it be ALPU?On 7/8/2003 6:38:27 PM insp89 wrote:
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On 7/8/2003 3:35:39 PM BillLumbergh wrote:
UAL flight attendants oppose worker bonus plan
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Good for the AFA ! Where''s the IAM and ALPA ?? On 7/8/2003 3:35:39 PM BillLumbergh wrote:
UAL flight attendants oppose worker bonus plan
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On 7/18/2003 6:54:45 PM ual06 wrote:
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030718/1925000876_1.html
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On 7/18/2003 6:54:45 PM ual06 wrote:
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030718/1925000876_1.html
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I see they will get the retention raises. Good for them.
Again the marketplace determines the pay for certain qualafied personel.
This is not what Ual management wanted to do, but what they had to do to keep key people who work on critical systems to stay.
I am surprised to see Ual management realize what they had to do before the whole crew left and they would have to start all over again with new employees.
Could they be getting smarter? Let''s hope so.
Now how are they going to turn attitudes around on the people who feel they have been screwed by management? When they do this, the company will have a chance of surviving.
