Ual To Reject Labor Contracts

[Drippy Quill]

November 24, 2004
The parent of United Airlines on Wednesday asked an Illinois bankruptcy judge to allow it to reject labor contracts with its unions if it is unable to achieve additional cost savings by January.

In a filing with the US Bankruptcy Court in Chicago, UAL, which filed for Chapter 11 protection from creditors in December 2002, said the carrier needs an additional USD$725 million of annual savings from its unions.

UAL also asked that all employees' pay be reduced by 4 percent from January 1 until the company emerges from bankruptcy protection. It also wants to remove any requirement in collective bargaining agreements that United maintain any defined benefit pension plans.

A hearing on the motion is expected on January 10, 2005 before US Bankruptcy Judge Eugene Wedoff.

(Reuters)

 

[AMFAMAN]

November 24, 2004
The parent of United Airlines on Wednesday asked an Illinois bankruptcy judge to allow it to reject labor contracts with its unions if it is unable to achieve additional cost savings by January.

In a filing with the US Bankruptcy Court in Chicago, UAL, which filed for Chapter 11 protection from creditors in December 2002, said the carrier needs an additional USD$725 million of annual savings from its unions.

UAL also asked that all employees' pay be reduced by 4 percent from January 1 until the company emerges from bankruptcy protection. It also wants to remove any requirement in collective bargaining agreements that United maintain any defined benefit pension plans.

A hearing on the motion is expected on January 10, 2005 before US Bankruptcy Judge Eugene Wedoff.

(Reuters)

[post="203875"][/post]​

Let the games begin......

 

[Bob Owens]

I said it before and I'll say it again. "When the first contract is voided every union airline worker should walk off the job". Did you hear that Little!

If you guys had laid this threat out two years ago we wouldnt be in this mess.

The last time I said this Jim Little demanded that I retract the statement. He claimed that I was putting the membership in danger and that "we dont want to end up in court".

Twenty years ago Frank Lorenzo used the bankruptcy scam to void contracts at Continental. He then slashed wages by 50% and ruined thousands of lives.

Labor was promised that it would not happen again. It is a promise that will be broken.

All through the nineties we held our end of the bargain, watching our standards of living decline under concessionary contracts as the airlines enjoyed record profits.

However the airlines refuse to live up to their end of the bargain and just keep taking and taking. And the courts are just playing along because they know if they screw us our unions will do nothing, except for a few of them that is. And its not the brave macho pilots, or the tough guy mechanics or baggage handlers, its the flight attendants. Leave it to the group with the most women to show the men who really has the balls!!!

ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!!! NO MORE!!!!!! Dont bother waiting for the likes of Little to lead the call, he has lost nothing, in fact he has recieved raises and a promotion for his industry leading concessions. You have to demand it!!!! IF the Unions will not lead, then dont pay them. Stop check-off now, make them come to you for the money, and tell them when they start act like union leaders, like the AFA, APFA, and Local 556 of the TWU that you will start paying them again.

 

[Bill]

Always blaming someone else aren't ya' Bobby????


Still think BK was the best way to go boys????? Delle got you in this mess, what the hell's he doing to get you out???? Oh, that's right, no one knows where the little man is!! I bet his retirement is safe!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Always blaming someone else aren't ya' Bobby????
Still think BK was the best way to go boys????? Delle got you in this mess, what the hell's he doing to get you out???? Oh, that's right, no one knows where the little man is!! I bet his retirement is safe!!!

[post="204928"][/post]​

Hey if you want to be the leader then you have to accept responsibility for your lack of action.

You can bet that Little & gangs retirement is safe too.


So far the difference is that those who went BK still get Holiday pay, shift differential, Longevity, vacation and sick time.

According to the International once UAL gets rid of their pension ours is gone too.

 

[Drippy Quill]

I personally do not require the OK from Mr. Little to back the stews, nor do I need a union's blessing.

Perhaps all unions missed the boat years ago, but as long as lives were going "status quo" no one complained or were affected. Now that we are being beaten down we want to lay blame, instead of fighting back...makes sense to me...HAHAHA!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

I personally do not require the OK from Mr. Little to back the stews, nor do I need a union's blessing.

Perhaps all unions missed the boat years ago, but as long as lives were going "status quo" no one complained or were affected. Now that we are being beaten down we want to lay blame, instead of fighting back...makes sense to me...HAHAHA!!!

[post="205048"][/post]​

So basically you are saying that we dont need unions?

You are saying that the whole concept in "organized" labor is invalid, that we dont need to be organized to fight back. While it may be true that we can fight back without organization its also true that our chances for success are low, thats why we organize. Thats why we have unions.

Your arguement sound like its coming from someone who is anti-union becauase basically you are saying that we do not need unions to fight back. Well if we dont need them during the worst of times we certainly dont need them during the best of times right?

Or is this merely a way of admitting that the leaders of the TWU are useless? That we cant really count on them to provide leadership ?

Why have them then?

 

[Hopeful]

Didn't Little say that concessions were necessary to save jobs?

 

[twuer]

Hey if you want to be the leader then you have to accept responsibility for your lack of action.

You can bet that Little & gangs retirement is safe too.
So far the difference is that those who went BK still get Holiday pay, shift differential, Longevity, vacation and sick time.
According to the International once UAL gets rid of their pension ours is gone too.

[post="204970"][/post]​

There it is again. As long as you have a few extra bucks in your pocket RIGHT NOW it makes NO difference how BK affects anyone else. You and your amfa types are so narcissistic it's sickening. It is this kind of attitude that has put the industry in the predicament it is in now!!!!!!

And in regards to your second highlighted comment. . . .
Tell me Bob, WHY and WHAT do you think has caused this to happen? Go ahead, charm us with your BS Bob. Tell us how it is the TWU's fault that UAL is in the shape it is in now. Delle and all his cronies took the militant stance (and this includds you and the other amfa wannabes on this board) and now it's coming back to bite them in the butt. You can't pin this crap on anyone but the self serving jerks who thought they derserved more than the next guy. I knew that amfa sucked but now we all know!!!!!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

There it is again. Delle and all his cronies took the militant stance (and this includds you and the other amfa wannabes on this board) and now it's coming back to bite them in the butt.

[post="205132"][/post]​

Kind of hard for Dell to do what you claim when the IAM was the union on the property at the time. Should I bring out the IAM rally against concessions pictures again, you know the one at SFO just weeks before the first concessions vote. Hell I heard that even Buffy was there.

I can understand your fear of a militant stance, typical of a twu coward. Kind of explains the turd of a contract we have. That's right, the twu militant stance is, "at least I have a job, I don't care what the benefits or pay is."

Still, why no mention of US Airways, the ones who started this concession BS in the first place.

 

[Bob Owens]

twuer,Dec 1 2004, 04:03 PM]
[b]There it is again. [/b] As long as you have a few extra bucks in your pocket RIGHT NOW it makes NO difference how BK affects anyone else.

Tell that to the 5000 mechanics at AA who no longer have jobs thanks to the TWU. AA is only keeping the amount of workers on the job that it needs to complete the work, so if we take pay cuts or not it makes no difference, if they dont have the work they are out the door and you know that, the question is why do you spread the same lies that the company does?

You and your amfa types are so narcissistic it's sickening.

We're the ones who are narcissistic? So I guess that Little, Gless and Yingst are the selfless ones. Tell me how much of a cut in pay did any of these guys see? Did Little ever approach you with the idea of a shared layoff? A layoff where we would all take a few weeks off without pay like the electricians and other union workers do instead of just dumping the bottom guy to the street until his labor is needed? I'll bet he didnt, he was too busy getting the company the industry leading wages so that the TWU could continue to collect their $3million!

It is this kind of attitude that has put the industry in the predicament it is in now!!!!!!

My concern is for the workers in the industry. As the TWU runs around trying to make sure that the industry is profitable our wages have been in a steady decline. The day nobody flies anymore is the day that workers should start worrying about the industry. But as long as people choose to fly we, and our unions, should focus on making sure that we get a decent wage.

And in regards to your second highlighted comment. . . .
Tell me Bob, WHY and WHAT do you think has caused this to happen?

Be more specific, what do you mean by "this"?

Go ahead, charm us with your BS Bob. Tell us how it is the TWU's fault that UAL is in the shape it is in now.

Of course it is. When UAL got the concessions they got during the first round it only brought their costs more in line with our costs. UAL did not have OSMs, Junior fleet Service clerks and part timers like AA did. Then once UAL got those savings the TWU goes and guts our contract, to an outsider, they would assume that with all we lost that the union must have been decertified because most non-union jobs pay some sort of differential, holiday pay and a minimum of two weeks vacation.

What UAL is asking for now is what the TWU gave to AA outside of BK a year and a half ago. Thats the TWU way-Industry leading concessions!

Delle and all his cronies took the militant stance (and this includds you and the other amfa wannabes on this board) and now it's coming back to bite them in the butt.

Oh really how? It looks the AFA is finally taking a militant stance, TWU Local 556 too. Too bad they didnt take it two years ago, then maybe we would not have had to see our contracts gutted.

It looks as if your passive submission did not work over at USAIR or UAL, and its not working here either.At what point would the TWU say NO? I know, when they stop paying them the $3million and refuse to do check off.

You can't pin this crap on anyone but the self serving jerks who thought they derserved more than the next guy. I knew that amfa sucked but now we all know!!!!!!!

The fact is people like you suck, right up to the company that is. Self serving jerks? No just people who were willing to fight to keep what they earned, people who were let down by the crooks at the ATD. You pretend to be unionist but you do the companys work for them, conning the members to accept a declining standard of living just so you can swell the ranks of dues payers. Sure you publish all the rhetoric about how evil the Republicans are and how workers have to work two jobs to get by while at the same time promoting the same conditions that they do.
By the way TWUer how much of a paycut did you take?If you are a worker from Tulsa how is it that you can be these boards during overhauls normal working hours?

 

[Decision 2004]

There it is again. As long as you have a few extra bucks in your pocket RIGHT NOW it makes NO difference how BK affects anyone else. You and your amfa types are so narcissistic it's sickening. It is this kind of attitude that has put the industry in the predicament it is in now!!!!!!

And in regards to your second highlighted comment. . . .
Tell me Bob, WHY and WHAT do you think has caused this to happen? Go ahead, charm us with your BS Bob. Tell us how it is the TWU's fault that UAL is in the shape it is in now. Delle and all his cronies took the militant stance (and this includds you and the other amfa wannabes on this board) and now it's coming back to bite them in the butt. You can't pin this crap on anyone but the self serving jerks who thought they derserved more than the next guy. I knew that amfa sucked but now we all know!!!!!!!

[post="205132"][/post]​

Why don't you really come clean and tell all of us HOW LITTLE you are willing to work for, and how much you will personally forfeit to subsidize unskilled labor, and an over manned work force?

I am really just dying to know the truth regarding your bottom dollar work ethic.

BTW, I think the TWU non-militant stand is about as worthy of support as the French, Germans, Russians, and Canadians. The TWU has something in common it appears. The TWU sells out workers pay and benefits for jobs, and the Fabulous Four Countries named above, were involved in very unethical oil-for-food program while the people of IRAQ were starving. I see the connection. Do you? Someone starving while dictators get rich....

Think about it.

 

[Drippy Quill]

So basically you are saying that we dont need unions?

No, basically that is your statement.

You are saying that the whole concept in "organized" labor is invalid, No, basically that is your statement. that we dont need to be organized to fight back. No, basically that is your statement.While it may be true that we can fight back without organization its also true that our chances for success are low, thats why we organize. Thats why we have unions. Thanks, now step down slowly off your platform

Your arguement sound like its coming from someone who is anti-union becauase basically you are saying that we do not need unions to fight back. No, basically that is your statement. Well if we dont need them during the worst of times we certainly dont need them during the best of times right? This is your post, you tell me!

Or is this merely a way of admitting that the leaders of the TWU are useless? That we cant really count on them to provide leadership ?
So basically, you are stating you cannot act in a union manner without leadership, 24/7...so basically you are stating, you are a sheep.

Why have them then?
I'm sorry, you put me to sleep...why have who Bob?

[post="205103"][/post]​

 

[Bob Owens]

No, basically that is your statement.

No Dummy, I mean Drippy, thats a question.


This is your post, you tell me!

Thats right, and its in response to your statement that you do not need a union.

...why have who Bob?

Exactly!

 

[Drippy Quill]

Booby...put down that Evelyn Woods speed reading course in accounting 101...(FWAAA tore you up)...and reread my post. You are so used to disecting and forgetting to reassemble members' posts that now even you believe your nonsense.

My statement was simple..I do not need a union to lead me in my battle against union busting...such as the judges in BK courts..and AMFA.

So if I stated..."Booby, you have a queer sense of humor"...you read it as ..."Booby, have another queer"....taken out of context, but definately in the ballpark....HAHAHA!!!