Union elections and the RLA....POLL!

Should union elections under the RLA be like every other election where you can vote YES/NO and the

  • YES

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • NO

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
Dignity, Jim is correct.

The membership votes for the MEC.

The MEC is every LEC President. So at NWA, the 10 Council Presidents make up the MEC.....they then vote for the 3 MEC officers. But the MEC officers carry no votes, only the LEC Presidents have votes.

So YOU DO vote for the MEC!
that is all spin jalbalpa!

I do not vote for MEC, so I think you should stop honking that horn that we do!

(know what Im sayin)

we vote only for LEC, if you do not vote for the LEC or a particular slate and who actually ends up being elected.. your voice or choice is not made for MEC.

(the particular slate's idea of who should do what does)

we should vote for every office and deep down.. I believe you think that is the right thing to do.

furthermore the LEC Presidents can use a roll call vote and use the number of members at the base and turn around
and over ride 7 other LEC Presidents if they want to get their way, so I know what stunts are pulled!

so these its the "membership votes" is total nonsense.

its actually a handful of people, who use the way it is currently set up to their advantage.

(some act like we just forget what ya'll did the last time)

I didnt!

All offices should be elected by the members.

:hugs:
 
you see it as complaining and a negative connotation, I simply clarified that I do not see it that way,

at all.

those who care are actually the ones who make the most noise.

those who dont care dont do anything.

I said that "complaining" indicated caring about the thing complained about, but you apparently don't believe me. But as you say, those who care make the most noise - you can call it caring, complaining, spouting off, making waves, or whatever term you like but it's all the same thing to me - caring means vocalizing that caring.

Jim

ps - jalbalpa, thanks for clearing that up.
 
I said that "complaining" indicated caring about the thing complained about, but you apparently don't believe me. But as you say, those who care make the most noise - you can call it caring, complaining, spouting off, making waves, or whatever term you like but it's all the same thing to me - caring means vocalizing that caring.

Thanks Jim for clearing that up...

however you said nothing that complaining indicated caring, you just stated "complaining" I am the only one who clarified
what "complaining" meant to me! it has nothing to do with believing you or not, its was simply a clarification of how I feel about the issue that is interpreted "complaining" by you!


ps - jalbalpa, thanks for clearing that up.
I know exactly how it plays out and its not the same as told on paper or what you happen to choose to
believe.


PS:

its not cleared up its spinning like a top!
 
we vote only for LEC, if you do not vote for the LEC or a particular slate and who actually ends up being elected.. your voice or choice is not made for MEC.

The MEC (Master Executive Council) is all of the LEC Presidents...thats what the MEC is. Those Presidents vote and elect the MEC President/VP/Sec-Treas

Those 3 individuals that the MEC elects...have absolutely no voting power.

The LEC Presidents (who make up the MEC) also carry their votes to the annual AFA Board of Directors meeting, where once again....they are the only ones who can vote on items.

Do I think members should get to vote on who the 3 MEC officers are?

Honestly, I thnik its fine the way it is. Why? Because those 3 officers have absolutely no voting power on any agenda iteam...they essentailly do as they are told by the LEC Presidents.

Do those 3 MEC officers have influence? I'm sure they do, but ultimately it is the responsability of the elected LEC Presidents (who make up the MEC) to carry out the will of their members.

Perhaps not knowing how your own union works Dignity is part of the problem?
 
Thanks Jim for clearing that up...

however you said nothing that complaining indicated caring, you just stated "complaining" I am the only who clarified
what "complaining" meant to me! it has nothing to do with believing you or not, its was simply a clarification of how I feel about the issue that is interpreted "complaining" by you!

Take a look at post 328 where I said "You apparently see "complaining" as having a negative connotation but people generally don't complain about things they don't care about. I have no doubt that you care greatly about these subjects..."

I think that clarified my interpretation of "complaining" pretty well.

PS:

its not cleared up its spinning like a top!

The election process of the MEC and MEC officers is for me, which was the purpose of jalbalpa's post. Like I thought - US FA's are AFA after all and I was around them for 27+ years - the MEC is elected by the membership but the MEC officers are not. What kept confusing me was your insistence that the MEC wasn't elected by the membership - I thought something might have changed since I retired. But apparently not. Now, before you take offense at this statement, I mean no endorsement of the current system of electing officers. Frankly, I see the merit in having union officers elected by the membership but also realize that 99% of union members won't have a clue about the people running for national officer positions and probably 50% or less will know anything about those seeking MEC officer positions.

Jim
 
The MEC (Master Executive Council) is all of the LEC Presidents...thats what the MEC is. Those Presidents vote and elect the MEC President/VP/Sec-Treas

Those 3 individuals that the MEC elects...have absolutely no voting power.

The LEC Presidents (who make up the MEC) also carry their votes to the annual AFA Board of Directors meeting, where once again....they are the only ones who can vote on items.

Do I think members should get to vote on who the 3 MEC officers are?

Honestly, I thnik its fine the way it is. Why? Because those 3 officers have absolutely no voting power on any agenda iteam...they essentailly do as they are told by the LEC Presidents.
you think its fine, I do not.

there you have at, if its OK for you, there is no problem!

Do those 3 MEC officers have influence? I'm sure they do, but ultimately it is the responsability of the elected LEC Presidents (who make up the MEC) to carry out the will of their members.
you think they have influence? last I noticed they are the ones writing letters to the "CEO" and "Seniority Committees"
stating exatly what they are not going to do and what they should!

Perhaps not knowing how your own union works Dignity is part of the problem?
Well at least you didnt go on about not attending union mettings or "caring"!

PS:

Is this the thank you for for helping you guys get TA3 passed securing the equity claim and paying all my dues?

short memories huh?
 
It hasn't changed Jim, the structure of AFA mirrors the structure of ALPA. We have Presidents and ALPA has Chairmans.

As it clearly states in the AFA Constitution & Bylaws under Local Council President...

(5) The President shall be a member of the Master Executive Council of the airline
and a member of the Board of Directors.
 
you think its fine, I do not.

there you have at, if its OK for you, there is no problem!

My voice is just as loud as yours....us it.

you think they have influence? last I noticed they are the ones writing letters to the "CEO" and "Seniority Committes"
stating exatly what they are not going to do and what they should!

Correct. Those letters were written at the request of the MEC (Local Council Presidents). The MEC President acts as a liason between the union and the company...

Is this the thank you for for helping you guys get TA3 passed securing the equity claim and paying all my dues?

short memories huh?

...and this is where the problem lies. You didn't help anyone get anything passed. You are the union, and the sooner your group and the DL flight attendants realize that....the better off we will ALL be!
 
Take a look at post 328 where I said "You apparently see "complaining" as having a negative connotation but people generally don't complain about things they don't care about. I have no doubt that you care greatly about these subjects..."

I think that clarified my interpretation of "complaining" pretty well.
Jim, its OK!

The election process of the MEC and MEC officers is for me, which was the purpose of jalbalpa's post. Like I thought - US FA's are AFA after all and I was around them for 27+ years - the MEC is elected by the membership but the MEC officers are not. What kept confusing me was your insistence that the MEC wasn't elected by the membership - I thought something might have changed since I retired.
they are elected by the LEC. that is not the way it should be done.. IMO

But apparently not. Now, before you take offense at this statement
I have not taken offense to anything you have written, you are just assuming I would!

I mean no endorsement of the current system of electing officers. Frankly, I see the merit in having union officers elected by the membership but also realize that 99% of union members won't have a clue about the people running for national officer positions and probably 50% or less will know anything about those seeking MEC officer positions.
now that is an assumption, people dont have a clue who they are voting for?!

Lets give people a little more credit than that!
 
they are elected by the LEC. that is not the way it should be done.. IMO

The only 3 people NOT elected by the members are the 3 Master Executive Council Pres/VP/Set-Treas

Do you know who makes up the Master Executive Council? The LEC Presidents

They tell those 3 officers what they want done.

BoeingBoy said:
I mean no endorsement of the current system of electing officers. Frankly, I see the merit in having union officers elected by the membership but also realize that 99% of union members won't have a clue about the people running for national officer positions and probably 50% or less will know anything about those seeking MEC officer positions.

I agree with you 100%.

It would be great to have direct elections for ALL officers, but would it really benefit the membership at the end of the day? Probably not.

How is anyone from UsAirways going to know ANYTHING about someone from Alaska Airlines who is running for international Vice President? Its not like there are campaign funds like in government elections....all the money you spend is yours, maybe you get some donations from other flight attendants...but thats it.

I see where you are coming from Dignity...trust me I really do, but look at what happened in MSP recently. I think that like 15-20% of the membership voted for the LEC President position there? Now all you hear is people whine about how Bruce Retrum is the LEC President....ask them if they voted, 80% of them will tell you NO.
 
Correct. Those letters were written at the request of the MEC (Local Council Presidents). The MEC President acts as a liason between the union and the company...
well jalbalpa, we dont need positions that hold no voting power and are just passing letters to the company supported by our dues that pays a real salary and benefits, that is just wasting money and resources.

I know they, MEC are more involved than what you are trying to portray online.

...and this is where the problem lies. You didn't help anyone get anything passed. You are the union, and the sooner your group and the DL flight attendants realize that....the better off we will ALL be!
I am a NW Flight Attendant and was a full supporter of the AFA tentative agreement(s) two and three securing that equity claim and talked to so many people on my own time and online, and furthermore this is not the first time I have been "Dignity" so you can just go and choose to believe what you want. Just because the whole website was deleted and people wont come forward because of the reaction you get from the Union militants regarding a different opinion.. doesnt mean I never did my part to help what I thought was best for that situation or supported my Union.

I fully supported AFA at the beginning of this merger.. up until I saw you were all intent to carry through what we need to leave behind in the past.

I am not anti-Union, I am not supporting your tactics any longer.
 
I fully supported AFA at the beginning of this merger.. up until I saw you were all intent to carry through what we need to leave behind in the past.

I am not anti-Union, I am not supporting your tactics any longer.

My tactics? I'm not even a dues paying member...I just look at the big picture. The big picture is not to just pave way to all of managements requests and just complete the merger forgetting that there is a contract in place. Your elected officers have done EVERYTHING to preserve your collective bargaining rights and are doing everything possible to make sure you keep those rights moving forward.

Sure you could have had your election 6 months ago. Would that have been the best choice in order to protect those collective bargaining rights? No.

Would that have been the best thing for management? Yes.

The only way you will carry through what has happened in the past is if you keep electing the same officers. Someone had to elect these people....over and over and over and over. Blame your coworkers, not the system.
 
dignity, perhaps you are currently too wrapped up in te emotions of these issues...

You made an accusation, I refuted it and now you say

Jim, its OK!

they are elected by the LEC. that is not the way it should be done.. IMO

My confusion arose from your use of "MEC" as the "they" in the above. "They" are the MEC officers, not the MEC.

I have not taken offense to anything you have written, you are just assuming I would!

Maybe not offense, but you have made an unfounded accusation or two...

now that is an asumption, people dont have a clue who they are voting for?!

Lets give people a little more credit than that!

Read what I said again - with membership election of all officers the "who" will be on the ballot so anyone should know who they're voting for. What I said is that most (99%) won't know anything about those running for national office allthough I should have added "unless those running are seeking re-election". Where do you think information about those running for national office comes from? They may well be from a different airline entirely, so there's no personal knowledge about the individual seeking election. Heck, how many PMDL FA's do you have personal knowledge about their view on various issues? How many MSP based PMNW if you're DTW based (or vice versa)? A few percent of them maybe? So most members will know little except for what may be in campaign literature, which is basically whatever the person running wants the membership to believe. Even at the same base with the same airline, there are those that would vote for a certain person in a heartbeat and those that would banish that same person from union positions permanently. It's just the nature of the beast.

Jim
 
dignity, perhaps you are currently too wrapped up in te emotions of these issues...

You made an accusation, I refuted it and now you say
I did not make an accusation, I clarified what complaining means to me.

why are you intent to make this personal?

My confusion arose from your use of "MEC" as the "they" in the above. "They" are the MEC officers, not the MEC.
you have received your clarification correct?

Maybe not offense, but you have made an unfounded accusation or two...
I have made no accusations at all.

please show me by a quote and I will certainly clarify my stance on any of my comments.

Read what I said again - with membership election of all officers the "who" will be on the ballot so anyone should know who they're voting for. What I said is that most (99%) won't know anything about those running for national office allthough I should have added "unless those running are seeking re-election". Where do you think information about those running for national office comes from? They may well be from a different airline entirely, so there's no personal knowledge about the individual seeking election. Heck, how many PMDL FA's do you have personal knowledge about their view on various issues? How many MSP based PMNW if you're DTW based (or vice versa)? A few percent of them maybe? So most members will know little except for what may be in campaign literature, which is basically whatever the person running wants the membership to believe. Even at the same base with the same airline, there are those that would vote for a certain person in a heartbeat and those that would banish that same person from union positions permanently. It's just the nature of the beast.

Jim
I have read everything you have written and appreciate all input just like everyone else.
 
The only way you will carry through what has happened in the past is if you keep electing the same officers. Someone had to elect these people....over and over and over and over. Blame your coworkers, not the system.

We share that sentiment - the union is made or broken by the membership.

Jim