United Fleet Plans

since UA itself ordered and flies a large fleet of various types of Airbus aircraft, the problem is obviously with the specific model.

OTOH, it was not the current mgmt. team that made that decision.

so who knows what they believe - or if they are just being coy to get discounts from anyone and everyone.
 
From what I hear, the A321NEO isn't a true 757 replacement as some keep saying. Even though the fuel savings (and operating expense) of the NEO is supposed to be the selling point, and it is supposed to easily handle Trans-Atlantic, (albeit with less cargo), UA feels that the proven technology of the 757 is better right now. If the 321NEO can do ALL of the things that a 757 can, like short field performance; hot and high performance; and true Trans Atlantic range (even though we've been taking Westbound tech stops in the winter), UA will wait and see if all of the claims are true and will weight it. This sis not a knock on Airbus, it just that they can extend the 320 Family to match a great bird like the 757. I think that AA will use them on cross country flights in a premium config. 
 
The 747-8 isn't a big seller for anyone (I think that LH is the only passenger operator?) IMHO, I think it would be a better seller as a freighter.
We will see what happens about the 777x. There has been talk that UA is interested in the 773, but it's just rumors right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
I suspect that a couple years of low fuel prices will help the case for keeping more 757s around.
 
jimntx said:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-sees-fit-boeing-035716803.html
 
Interest in 777-300.  No interest at this time in 777X.  No interest in 747-8  Would like to know what "problems"  UA sees in A321NEO.  Anyone know?
Could be anything. Some number doesn't work. 
Could be timing
or it could be that even a 321NEOLR isn't a 757. United Rolls powered 757s are pretty young so they probably will wait a few years to see if Boeing does anything (757NG/MAX) or (Y1/NSA). 
 
swamt said:
Could it be the Fly by wire probs?  You know the dark cock-pit?  I know it's been awhile, but who knows...
Unlikely. Ua has a fleet of A32S and has A350s on order. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
since UA itself ordered and flies a large fleet of various types of Airbus aircraft, the problem is obviously with the specific model.

OTOH, it was not the current mgmt. team that made that decision.

so who knows what they believe - or if they are just being coy to get discounts from anyone and everyone.
When you start getting into what makes the most sense you have to remember every airline is different. 
What works for United may not for Delta. 
What works for Delta may not for United
 
but keep in mind, I don't believe one 321NEOLR has been ordered. 
 
T5towbar said:
From what I hear, the A321NEO isn't a true 757 replacement as some keep saying. Even though the fuel savings (and operating expense) of the NEO is supposed to be the selling point, and it is supposed to easily handle Trans-Atlantic, (albeit with less cargo), UA feels that the proven technology of the 757 is better right now. If the 321NEO can do ALL of the things that a 757 can, like short field performance; hot and high performance; and true Trans Atlantic range (even though we've been taking Westbound tech stops in the winter), UA will wait and see if all of the claims are true and will weight it. This sis not a knock on Airbus, it just that they can extend the 320 Family to match a great bird like the 757. I think that AA will use them on cross country flights in a premium config. 
 
The 747-8 isn't a big seller for anyone (I think that LH is the only passenger operator?) IMHO, I think it would be a better seller as a freighter.
We will see what happens about the 777x. There has been talk that UA is interested in the 773, but it's just rumors right now.
KE and CA operate them also FWIW. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
I suspect that a couple years of low fuel prices will help the case for keeping more 757s around.
Age will then become the issue sadly. 
 
The A350 order was the previous management's doing. I remain skeptical the A350-1000 will ever be delivered in UA colors, and reasoning behind changing the order from A350-900's back in 2013 was probably to buy more time to try and get out of the contract entirely.

Deliveries aren't until 2018. That leaves two years to work out something with Boeing or another carrier to assume the delivery positions, or to negotiate those 35 shells down to a comparable value of A32x's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
eolesen said:
The A350 order was the previous management's doing. I remain skeptical the A350-1000 will ever be delivered in UA colors, and reasoning behind changing the order from A350-900's back in 2013 was probably to buy more time to try and get out of the contract entirely.

Deliveries aren't until 2018. That leaves two years to work out something with Boeing or another carrier to assume the delivery positions, or to negotiate those 35 shells down to a comparable value of A32x's.
 
I would wager on your first take as accurate - UA management (read sCAL management) have continued to remind anyone who's listening that they were an all Boeing airline, something they're quite proud of .... and still haven't shut up about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
or you end up with a certain amount of fleet and order trading between airlines, such as between DL and UA, such that DL takes the Airbus widebodies and UA takes DL's 787 orders.

DL can substitute other aircraft for its 787s but is still going to have to obtain a high enough value of aircraft...and Boeing clearly isn't willing to allow DL to swap every aircraft order or else the 787s would have been converted as part of the 737-900ER order.

UA doesn't say they have substitution rights.

if UA really doesn't want Airbus products and DL doesn't want specific Boeing products, it is possible that they could do a transaction that would allow them to change the order to make the products compatible for sale.
 
eolesen said:
The A350 order was the previous management's doing. I remain skeptical the A350-1000 will ever be delivered in UA colors, and reasoning behind changing the order from A350-900's back in 2013 was probably to buy more time to try and get out of the contract entirely.

Deliveries aren't until 2018. That leaves two years to work out something with Boeing or another carrier to assume the delivery positions, or to negotiate those 35 shells down to a comparable value of A32x's.
I don't. I believe they would have dumped them then if it wasn't going to happen. As it is now UA has nothing on order than can replace the 35J in its fleet. (78J lacks range) 
Even with a 77W order it would be a convert of 787 orders and still not nearly enough to replace United 747 fleet. 
 
WorldTraveler said:
DL can substitute other aircraft for its 787s but is still going to have to obtain a high enough value of aircraft...and Boeing clearly isn't willing to allow DL to swap every aircraft order or else the 787s would have been converted as part of the 737-900ER order.
 
Not sure who told you that but they lied. 
That wasn't even on the table at the time. 
 
Delta might switch the 787 order now, but that order was a key part of negos for the last wide body deal. 
 
As it is though they still have plenty of wide bodies needs when 2020 rolls around. I imagine its a bargaining chip for 789s later down the road...... 
 
it comes right out of DL's 10K which was just filed with the SEC less than a month ago.

You make sure and get yourself over to the GO and tell them that is wrong - before you head to Washington and tell them DL lied.

DL's 787 order is still listed on the books as a commitment which does allow substitution.

and DL's 10K was prepared long after the Airbus order was announced.

I would be very surprised if you will see a 787 at DL. There simply is not enough of a difference between it and the 350 to justify multiple types.
 
topDawg said:
I don't. I believe they would have dumped them then if it wasn't going to happen. As it is now UA has nothing on order than can replace the 35J in its fleet. (78J lacks range) 
Even with a 77W order it would be a convert of 787 orders and still not nearly enough to replace United 747 fleet.
We'll see, but as TSH noted, the new management seems to be intent on maintaining the "all Boeing" approach that CO had. The decision to have an orphan fleet of 35 aircraft or getting another 35 77W's and having all of the commonality with the other 77's on property seems like a pretty simple decision to me, but getting out of the contract will take a little more effort.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person