United help or hinderence?

ForkTime2002

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Nov 27, 2002
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[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 1:04:28 AM DFWCC wrote:
[P]If U goes BK. How do you think it will effect AA? [BR]1] There will be those who are scared to fly an airline in bk and they may move over to AA. That's a help.[BR]2] U will get larger concessions from their workers and with lower cost that will put pressure on AA's labor force to lower wages to compete.[BR]3] Result: When all the airlines have lower their wages to meet U's lower cost. U goes out to pasture. AA gets their pax. AA makes money and the unions fight to get back wages. In 3 yrs we'll be back to where we were <$> 2 yrs ago. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]Hey Tex wake up! U is in bankruptcy already.[EM]UAL[/EM] may be on the fast track there.and if UAL does get there that rosy scenario you painted above goes out the window.UAL goes to court don is coming for your wallet.believe it.[/FONT][/STRONG]
 
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ForkTime2002

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Nov 27, 2002
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[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 1:04:28 AM DFWCC wrote:
[P]If U goes BK. How do you think it will effect AA? [BR]1] There will be those who are scared to fly an airline in bk and they may move over to AA. That's a help.[BR]2] U will get larger concessions from their workers and with lower cost that will put pressure on AA's labor force to lower wages to compete.[BR]3] Result: When all the airlines have lower their wages to meet U's lower cost. U goes out to pasture. AA gets their pax. AA makes money and the unions fight to get back wages. In 3 yrs we'll be back to where we were <$> 2 yrs ago. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG][/STRONG][/P][STRONG][FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]Hey Tex wake up! U is in bankruptcy already.[EM]UAL[/EM] may be on the fast track there.and if UAL does get there that rosy scenario you painted above goes out the window.UAL goes to court don is coming for your wallet.believe it.[/FONT][/STRONG]
 

DFWCC

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Aug 19, 2002
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If U goes BK. How do you think it will effect AA?
1] There will be those who are scared to fly an airline in bk and they may move over to AA. That''s a help.
2] U will get larger concessions from their workers and with lower cost that will put pressure on AA''s labor force to lower wages to compete.
3] Result: When all the airlines have lower their wages to meet U''s lower cost. U goes out to pasture. AA gets their pax. AA makes money and the unions fight to get back wages. In 3 yrs we''ll be back to where we were [$] 2 yrs ago.
 

Doctor Zaius

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Nov 18, 2002
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The major airlines got fat and lazy during the 90's. When revenue was flowing in, cost was irrelevant and staffing grew with little analysis of actual need.

If American is serious about competing with Southwest the resulting staffing model will quickly resemble TWA in it's final years. Instead of 8 workers per gate, expect closer to TWA's 3 per gate, sharing responsibilites at two gates. Pilot efficiency would rise with demand staffing and both sides would benefit from preferential bidding where lines are built to each pilot's likes and dislikes.

Unfortunately the pay will resemble TWA too. (Without Carl Icahn, of course!) But as I am constantly reminded, "At least you would have a job.".

Dr. Zaius
 

Doctor Zaius

Newbie
Nov 18, 2002
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The major airlines got fat and lazy during the 90's. When revenue was flowing in, cost was irrelevant and staffing grew with little analysis of actual need.

If American is serious about competing with Southwest the resulting staffing model will quickly resemble TWA in it's final years. Instead of 8 workers per gate, expect closer to TWA's 3 per gate, sharing responsibilites at two gates. Pilot efficiency would rise with demand staffing and both sides would benefit from preferential bidding where lines are built to each pilot's likes and dislikes.

Unfortunately the pay will resemble TWA too. (Without Carl Icahn, of course!) But as I am constantly reminded, "At least you would have a job.".

Dr. Zaius
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 9:24:00 AM Doctor Zaius wrote:
[P]Instead of 8 workers per gate, expect closer to TWA's 3 per gate, sharing responsibilites at two gates.[BR][BR]----------------[BR][BR][FONT size=1]Where did you get the idea that we staff eight per gate? I've never worked with anything more than a three man crew.At JFK we'd get a P/T'er on a contract carrier[STRONG][EM]if[/EM][/STRONG] we were lucky.[BR][BR]Here at LGA we are gate manned and the covering two gates idea is a nice one, but simply wouldn't work due to the way the gates are plotted over the course of the day.[/FONT][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 9:24:00 AM Doctor Zaius wrote:
[P]Instead of 8 workers per gate, expect closer to TWA's 3 per gate, sharing responsibilites at two gates.[BR][BR]----------------[BR][BR][FONT size=1]Where did you get the idea that we staff eight per gate? I've never worked with anything more than a three man crew.At JFK we'd get a P/T'er on a contract carrier[STRONG][EM]if[/EM][/STRONG] we were lucky.[BR][BR]Here at LGA we are gate manned and the covering two gates idea is a nice one, but simply wouldn't work due to the way the gates are plotted over the course of the day.[/FONT][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
 

FA Mikey

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Aug 19, 2002
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Sorry, with UAL's last round of cuts. There employees were still near the top or above in wages and benefits. AAs cost are below UAL's.

AMR is cutting 4 billion in annual expenses. This a big company to turn around. With the changes made so far. With the savings we continue to find in our operation. With a healthier balance sheet. The strongest willed employees, commited to our long term survival. AA will maintain a better cost advantage over its weaker rivals U and UAL.
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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miami
goldwatermiller08.com
Sorry, with UAL's last round of cuts. There employees were still near the top or above in wages and benefits. AAs cost are below UAL's.

AMR is cutting 4 billion in annual expenses. This a big company to turn around. With the changes made so far. With the savings we continue to find in our operation. With a healthier balance sheet. The strongest willed employees, commited to our long term survival. AA will maintain a better cost advantage over its weaker rivals U and UAL.
 

WingNaPrayer

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Aug 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 9:24:00 AM [STRONG]Doctor Zaius [/STRONG][EM]wrote[/EM]:
[P]Instead of 8 workers per gate. . . . . . . . [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha [BR]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!![BR][BR]I have never seen 8 workers per gate at ANY airline! In fact, many times at AA gates in MIA, I've seen only two, and sometimes only ONE![BR][BR]Don't try to make it sound like it takes 8 people to do the job of one at AA because from what I've seen, on the front line, you could learn a lot about what it means to [EM]bust your ass [/EM]to get the job done![BR][BR][/P]
 

WingNaPrayer

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Aug 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/5/2002 9:24:00 AM [STRONG]Doctor Zaius [/STRONG][EM]wrote[/EM]:
[P]Instead of 8 workers per gate. . . . . . . . [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha [BR]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!![BR][BR]I have never seen 8 workers per gate at ANY airline! In fact, many times at AA gates in MIA, I've seen only two, and sometimes only ONE![BR][BR]Don't try to make it sound like it takes 8 people to do the job of one at AA because from what I've seen, on the front line, you could learn a lot about what it means to [EM]bust your ass [/EM]to get the job done![BR][BR][/P]
 

Doctor Zaius

Newbie
Nov 18, 2002
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I stand corrected. I must've misunderstood one of my line service buddies down here in the STL ghetto. He was expessing amazement at the staffing levels at the American gates that were being operated independently from the regular TWA LLC gates.

But do you deny that there are ways to become more efficient in staffing the airline? If not, what are your suggestions?

I have been surprized at how inefficient the pilot staffing has been. Lots of pilots idled by training each month. Tons of reserves on the international side for an operation with TWO international flights per day. Several of us flew absolutely zero hours last month. Am I complaining? Yeah! Lots of my friends are being furloughed because I generated no revenue for American last month.

But at least I still have a job.

Dr. Zaius

P.S. How long did it take you to type all those "ha's"? I was impressed!
 

Doctor Zaius

Newbie
Nov 18, 2002
7
0
I stand corrected. I must've misunderstood one of my line service buddies down here in the STL ghetto. He was expessing amazement at the staffing levels at the American gates that were being operated independently from the regular TWA LLC gates.

But do you deny that there are ways to become more efficient in staffing the airline? If not, what are your suggestions?

I have been surprized at how inefficient the pilot staffing has been. Lots of pilots idled by training each month. Tons of reserves on the international side for an operation with TWO international flights per day. Several of us flew absolutely zero hours last month. Am I complaining? Yeah! Lots of my friends are being furloughed because I generated no revenue for American last month.

But at least I still have a job.

Dr. Zaius

P.S. How long did it take you to type all those "ha's"? I was impressed!
 

AAquila

Senior
Sep 22, 2002
357
0
If it's any indication Wall Street is reacting positive to the UAL news with respect to AMR's future. The stock is moving up again and was up 5% today over yesterdays close. There may be concessions on future wage increases, but I believe Carty will not rock the boat too much. As soon as the nation locks up future oil reserves (I mean take care of Saddam) the economy will be poised for a quick recovery.
AMR has great routes, an increasing load factor, and a opportunity to recruit many of fleeing UALs business flyers.

AMR's future would be helped immensely by a weaker UAL and subsequent weaker Star Alliance and stable oil prices.

A recent New York Times article makes reference to CAL's Bethume as the Airline "Don" of the Airline CEO "Soprano " family. They're wrong, we have our own " Don".

UAL goose will have to lay some "golden eggs " ( routes) to stay alive, and not become a belated Thanksgiving meal for the likes of Carty, Bethume and family.
 

AAquila

Senior
Sep 22, 2002
357
0
If it's any indication Wall Street is reacting positive to the UAL news with respect to AMR's future. The stock is moving up again and was up 5% today over yesterdays close. There may be concessions on future wage increases, but I believe Carty will not rock the boat too much. As soon as the nation locks up future oil reserves (I mean take care of Saddam) the economy will be poised for a quick recovery.
AMR has great routes, an increasing load factor, and a opportunity to recruit many of fleeing UALs business flyers.

AMR's future would be helped immensely by a weaker UAL and subsequent weaker Star Alliance and stable oil prices.

A recent New York Times article makes reference to CAL's Bethume as the Airline "Don" of the Airline CEO "Soprano " family. They're wrong, we have our own " Don".

UAL goose will have to lay some "golden eggs " ( routes) to stay alive, and not become a belated Thanksgiving meal for the likes of Carty, Bethume and family.
 

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