United posts $28 million net loss for November (excluding special items)

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Jan 5, 2003
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Other majors have predicted huge losses for the fourth quarter - UAL is on track for a small-medium net loss (excluding reorg and special items) for the fourth quarter:

UAL Reports November Results

Wednesday December 21, 11:42 am ET

Operating Earnings of $9 Million, a $197 Million Improvement Year-Over-Year Despite a $124 Million Increase in Fuel Expenses due to Higher Fuel Prices
Mainline CASM Down 1 Percent on 3 Percent Lower Capacity Year-Over-Year Excluding Fuel, Mainline CASM Down 15 Percent
Mainline PRASM Up 15 Percent Year-Over-Year

CHICAGO, Dec. 21 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- UAL Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: UALAQ - News), the holding company whose primary subsidiary is United Airlines, today filed its November Monthly Operating Report with the United States Bankruptcy Court. The company reported operating earnings of $9 million for November 2005 (filing entities only), an improvement of $197 million over the same period last year, despite higher fuel prices resulting in $124 million increase in fuel costs year over year for mainline and United Express operations. In November 2004, the company reported an operating loss of $188 million. For November 2005, the company reported a net loss of $187 million, including $159 million of largely non-cash reorganization expenses driven by aircraft-related transactions. Excluding reorganization expenses, the company reported a net loss of $28 million.

As previously disclosed, the company will continue to record large non- cash reorganization items as it moves towards exit. It is common for the results of operations of companies progressing through Chapter 11 to be impacted by non-cash charges related to their reorganization, especially as restructuring work nears completion. Charges based on the claims of our creditors are recorded at the amount expected to be allowed by the court. However, as shown in our Plan of Reorganization, these claims are expected to be settled at exit for a minor fraction of the amount of the charges recorded.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051221/cgw013.html?.v=36

Pretty good results considering the fuel costs.

If UAL can contain the number of meltdowns (ala ORD last weekend), it has a fighting chance.

October's net loss (excluding reorg and special items) was $114 million:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051123/cgw024.html?.v=33

With December fuel prices way down over October and November levels, and the heavy holiday travel season, December's results should come in much better than the previous two months.
 
I'm surprised we did that well, especially for November. Fourth quarter is not shaping up to be as terrible a quarter as I thought.
 
It's easy when you don't have to pay your bills

you keep saying the same thing everytime. do you have any clue what you're even talking about, or is that the only phrase you know how to type on you mom and dad's computer?
 
United reports $187 million net loss in November

United Airlines (UA) reported Wednesday that it lost $187 million in November, including $159 million in reorganization expenses.

UA has lost $15.1 billion since it last reported a profit in the second quarter of 2000, and has lost more than $5 billion this year alone.

Not to shabby??? Pathetic would be more like it. UAL will prevail? You sound like you want to UAL to distroy more retirement dreams, steal more pensions, rob its employees thru more ESOP con jobs...

They will prevail alright, at taking my tax dollars to make good on their failed pension promises. They will prevail at fully funding the CEO's pension. They will prevail at laughing all the way to the bank while the employees foot the bill.
 
you keep saying the same thing everytime. do you have any clue what you're even talking about, or is that the only phrase you know how to type on you mom and dad's computer?
I agree its pretty easy to skate when you dont have to pay your bills. And they still showed a loss. The bankruptcy was preplanned back when they accepted the Employee Stock Ownership Plan or E.S.O.P. If your a taxpayer how does it feel having to pay all of uals retirement plans to the employees. Its coming out of your pocket. I give them 6 months and they will be right back in Bankruptcy. Go ahead buy some stock. Jake Brace the cfo is the keeper of secrets why do you think they never fired him.....Its run by Management Misfits.......And their maintenance is done in Mexico....Both tires were blown, the rim of the left tire was ground all the way down to the axle. The right tire rim was ground down too, but not as far. The rest of the plane remained undamaged.

Although the maintenance was performed by a contract facility, UAL JICs were used......Good Luck.
 
It's easy when you don't have to pay your bills
Does anyone EVER take you seriously? Because you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Companies in bankruptcy pay bills. They pay all their bills. What a shock! Go ahead, ask someone that actually KNOWS something about bankruptcy. I DARE YOU. :shock:

SERIOUSLY, how many vendors would be supplying United with labor, goods and services if they didn't pay their bills over the past three years? What IDIOTS would continue to provide labor, goods and services for YEARS without getting paid? PLEASE, tell me ONE.
 
Does anyone EVER take you seriously? Because you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Companies in bankruptcy pay bills. They pay all their bills. What a shock! Go ahead, ask someone that actually KNOWS something about bankruptcy. I DARE YOU. :shock:

SERIOUSLY, how many vendors would be supplying United with labor, goods and services if they didn't pay their bills over the past three years? What IDIOTS would continue to provide labor, goods and services for YEARS without getting paid? PLEASE, tell me ONE.


All of them!!! That is why they call it "Bankruptcy Protection". The court FORCES unwilling creditors to allow UAL to continue to utilize services, equipment and leases WIITHOUT paying for them. They have to fight tooth and nail to reposess their assets from UAL. In some cases UAL has even gone to court to get money back for services provided prior to filing. In fact companys in bankruptcy can stop paying almost all of their bills. Payroll is one area that does get paid. The point is vendors are FORCED to keep suppling UAL with services/equip. Even it it causes the eventual bankruptcy of that company as well. Your comment is truly clueless and without any idea of the process known of as Bankruptcy. Pay all the bills...GET A CLUE. What do you think is going on with the UAL pensions? Complete default. LACK OF PAYMENT. You and I will now be paying that bill. The rest of the creditors are going to get pennys on the dollar. PENNEYS. I owe you a buck, but here is a penny, now go away. That does not equal paying all their bills in my mind.
 
All of them!!! That is why they call it "Bankruptcy Protection". The court FORCES unwilling creditors to allow UAL to continue to utilize services, equipment and leases WIITHOUT paying for them. They have to fight tooth and nail to reposess their assets from UAL. In some cases UAL has even gone to court to get money back for services provided prior to filing. In fact companys in bankruptcy can stop paying almost all of their bills. Payroll is one area that does get paid. The point is vendors are FORCED to keep suppling UAL with services/equip. Even it it causes the eventual bankruptcy of that company as well. Your comment is truly clueless and without any idea of the process known of as Bankruptcy. Pay all the bills...GET A CLUE. What do you think is going on with the UAL pensions? Complete default. LACK OF PAYMENT. You and I will now be paying that bill. The rest of the creditors are going to get pennys on the dollar. PENNEYS. I owe you a buck, but here is a penny, now go away. That does not equal paying all their bills in my mind.

I have a clue, you certainly don't. I'm talking about ongoing obligations. Pensions AREN'T an ongoing obligation, sorry, but they aren't.

Last 1/4's numbers and last month's numbers, are all about ongoing obligations and United would have to pay for all of those!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Creditors only fight tooth and nail for items owed when the company went into bankruptcy. That was 3 years ago. Staying in Bankruptcy for a longer time doesn't reduce the amount of ongoing bills you owe.

No, No, No, you certainly don't understand bankruptcy at all. Go talk to someone with knowledge, not just someone that is pissed about their pension.

Bankruptcy allows you to END ongoing obligations and make structure changes you otherwise wouldn't. For example, rejecting aircraft leases, shedding pensions, renogiating contracts with vendors. You don't have to wait for the contract to be UP!
 
All of them!!! That is why they call it "Bankruptcy Protection". The court FORCES unwilling creditors to allow UAL to continue to utilize services, equipment and leases WIITHOUT paying for them. They have to fight tooth and nail to reposess their assets from UAL. In some cases UAL has even gone to court to get money back for services provided prior to filing. In fact companys in bankruptcy can stop paying almost all of their bills. Payroll is one area that does get paid. The point is vendors are FORCED to keep suppling UAL with services/equip. Even it it causes the eventual bankruptcy of that company as well. Your comment is truly clueless and without any idea of the process known of as Bankruptcy. Pay all the bills...GET A CLUE. What do you think is going on with the UAL pensions? Complete default. LACK OF PAYMENT. You and I will now be paying that bill. The rest of the creditors are going to get pennys on the dollar. PENNEYS. I owe you a buck, but here is a penny, now go away. That does not equal paying all their bills in my mind.

I challenge you to NAME A BILL for the last 1/2 of this year that United is pay pennies on the dollar! :eek: Good luck. Here are some things that can't be on your list:
Labor
Fuel
Aircraft Leases
Airport Leases
Food
Government Fees (taxes, etc . . .)
All others not worth listing.

so AGAIN, WHERE!!!! Name a bill or a VENDOR. Please! I want to work with that vendor that gives free stuff for years without a service interruption.
 
For all the truly clueless people who believe that a company doesn't pay their bills in bankruptcy:


It costs MORE to be in bankruptcy because of lawyer fees than it costs to stay out.

If it were such a great deal, wouldn't every company just file????

Think people!

B)
 
For all the truly clueless people who believe that a company doesn't pay their bills in bankruptcy:
It costs MORE to be in bankruptcy because of lawyer fees than it costs to stay out.

If it were such a great deal, wouldn't every company just file????

Think people!

B)
Thanks for the backup (on facts).

All of them!!! That is why they call it "Bankruptcy Protection". The court FORCES unwilling creditors to allow UAL to continue to utilize services, equipment and leases WIITHOUT paying for them.
dead wrong

They have to fight tooth and nail to reposess their assets from UAL. In some cases UAL has even gone to court to get money back for services provided prior to filing.
even if true, doesn't make a darned bit of difference for 2005 operating results.

In fact companys in bankruptcy can stop paying almost all of their bills.
dead wrong again

Payroll is one area that does get paid. The point is vendors are FORCED to keep suppling UAL with services/equip. Even it it causes the eventual bankruptcy of that company as well.
Vendors are forced to comply with existing contracts. The bankrupt company can reject a contract, but the healthy vendor doesn't have the same option. got that?

Your comment is truly clueless and without any idea of the process known of as Bankruptcy.
wrong, I've got the clue. Do some real research.

Pay all the bills...GET A CLUE. What do you think is going on with the UAL pensions? Complete default. LACK OF PAYMENT.
United doesn't have a pension payment, bill or obligation anymore. Therefore, there is no bill they aren't paying.

You and I will now be paying that bill. The rest of the creditors are going to get pennys on the dollar. PENNEYS. I owe you a buck, but here is a penny, now go away. That does not equal paying all their bills in my mind.
? why do I bother ?
 
For all the truly clueless people who believe that a company doesn't pay their bills in bankruptcy:
It costs MORE to be in bankruptcy because of lawyer fees than it costs to stay out.

If it were such a great deal, wouldn't every company just file????

Think people!

B)

One of UALs bills was the pension. Ten Billion dollars. They now gave that bill to me, the tax payer. But wait, you say legal bills are more than what they shed thru bankruptcy. So the legal bill for filing this bankruptcy is more than ten billion dollars. Get a grip on reality. Exactly, think about it. You owe a ton of money, but filing for bankruptcy will end up costing you more money? NOT... UAL has screwed everyone out of TENS of BILLIONS of dollars. They have left even small Mom and Pop businesses with the unpaid tab. One resturant in Aspen is holding an $83,000.00 UAL bill. NOT PAID. Somehow they will have to take up the slack. And think. These people get upset when some one walks out the door without paying for a sandwich. Imagine how they feel at being owed 83k and having UAL tell them to take a hike!!!!
 
One of UALs bills was the pension. Ten Billion dollars. They now gave that bill to me, the tax payer. But wait, you say legal bills are more than what they shed thru bankruptcy. So the legal bill for filing this bankruptcy is more than ten billion dollars. Get a grip on reality. Exactly, think about it. You owe a ton of money, but filing for bankruptcy will end up costing you more money? NOT... UAL has screwed everyone out of TENS of BILLIONS of dollars. They have left even small Mom and Pop businesses with the unpaid tab. One resturant in Aspen is holding an $83,000.00 UAL bill. NOT PAID. Somehow they will have to take up the slack. And think. These people get upset when some one walks out the door without paying for a sandwich. Imagine how they feel at being owed 83k and having UAL tell them to take a hike!!!!

Amen brother :up: