Us Air Pilots Union Agrees To Vote On Deal

USA320Pilot

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May 18, 2003
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US Air Pilots Union Agrees to Vote On Concession Deal

By Adrian Schofield, Aviation Daily

The US Airways pilots union finally decided late Tuesday night to send a tentative concession accord to its members for a ratification vote, but the union has been careful to avoid an outright endorsement of the deal. The US Airways unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) voted “overwhelmingly†to send the deal to members, although it took three meetings for a divided union leadership to reach agreement. The union told pilots they will be sent a summary of the deal, along with a list of its advantages and disadvantages. Voting will begin soon and will close Oct. 21. Some ALPA representatives sent letters comparing the deal with the interim cost cuts the airline has asked the bankruptcy court to impose. However, ALPA’s US Airways Master Executive Council (MEC) told members this comparison is “incomplete and misleading†because the interim cuts would be short-term only. If US Airways asks the court to impose long-term concessions, they would be no better — and could be much worse — than the tentative deal, the MEC said. The concession agreement includes 18% pay cuts, benefit reductions and productivity improvements. The MEC said the new agreement will save the airline $1.8 billion through 2009, bringing the total of pilot givebacks to nearly $7 billion.

A meeting with the International Association of Machinists (IAM) union Tuesday did not move the airline any closer to a concession agreement with this group. IAM told airline representatives that “the breadth and magnitude of its proposals were unjustifiable.†According to the union, US Airways “remains adamant that their proposals must be accepted in their entirety despite the fact that they have settled for far less with other employee groups.†An IAM spokesman said the airline has not presented a long-term concession proposal, and no further meetings are scheduled. Until the airline filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, IAM refused to consider another round of contract restructuring. Yesterday, the third group of workers represented by the Transport Workers Union ratified a concession deal. Flight simulator engineers approved concessions worth about $500,000 a year.
 
Bob,

Again, unions don't make decisions to liquidate, we don't make business plans, and we do not manage the airline.

The only decisions we can and do make is what we can and will work for. Those decisions dictate whether we survive personally or not. Through a vote, majority rules and dictates their worth.

The rest of the responsibility to operate an airline and create a plan and be able to execute it is up to the highly paid managment of this company. If they don't have the skills, specifically U who has used BK twice, then the chips will fall where they will.
 
PineyBob,

I find PITbulls logic cogent and wise.

We, as labor, have given twice to the point that we can't forgive ourselves for what we have already given. If this, or any company, can't afford the required skilled and/or licensed professionals, then it deserves to go out of business. The rules of capitalism demand it. To do any other, is just a slow road to slavery.

The Mechanics and Related, the Flight Attendants, and the Gate Agents appear to be solid in this resolve. What the company is paying us now, is the lowest wage we will accept. We are intelligent, motivated workers. Capable of achieving degrees and licenses. Our current wage is our bottom line. We will agree to no less!
 
Bob:

You said: "All company turn arounds that were sucessful required union participation and support. A business plan without buy in from all id a license to fail." in response to Pitbull's remarks. Her remarks were laser sharp and correct. As were yours. Therein lies the problem here.

This management's business plan does not take the employees into account. And that is why it is doomed to fail. They are not looking for a partnership in this. They are looking for the lowest wages possible for as long as possible counting on the fear of job loss as the incentive for the unions to capitulate to the their demands. Note I said demands. As you said no buy in by the workers and you have no company. Something they do not understand. That will be our demise.

The pilots will give in because of their fear. One only needs to read 320's posts to prove that point. But you cannot run an airline with just pilots. Once this 1113e is imposed look for massive resignations on a weekly basis as employees who have not "bought in" find other ways to make a living. That will be our demise. Instead of rallying the troops to change along with the change in our industry they have chosen the low road. No leadership. No positive outlook. No motivation to help this company survive and thrive. Only threats of liquidation and job loss. That is not motivation. That is fear. People do not want to live and work in fear. And they won't. Not at the wages that are coming.

Motivated, content and focused employees are what saves companies. This management had a chance but didn't come through. I give us 6 months or less now. Once you see the massive resignations begin it is just a matter of time. We are short staffed as it is.

And PitBull is correct. These choices were made by management. They chose how to attempt to turn this thing around. And now we all will choose whether we want to work for these cretins. I'm not going to. And, other than a bunch of pilots who think all they can do is fly airplanes, most others won't either.


mr
 
PineyBob said:
That argument is bogus and beneath your intelligence. Deciding what you can work for isn't done in a vacuum. All company turn arounds that were sucessful required union participation and support. A business plan without buy in from all id a license to fail.
[post="189069"][/post]​

Bob,

Try stepping out of yourself for a minute. Read the entire post. Unions do decide by having the opportunity of a vote (YOU DON"T: YOU ARE NOT UNION), and the majority rules the day.
 
That's a great idea, you'll be competing with how many other people for a smaller marketplace of jobs. I'm not saying that you should take it up the pipe, but you need to realize that this might not be the best time in the industry to take a stand.
 
You know what is great about this vote...?

That when this TA gets voted in, that all you suckers that claim the RC4 acted for the majority, and shared the majority of pilot's opinions...

Will have to eat crow knowing that you were wrong.

Sure Blah blah representitives voted in yadda yadda.

But that was never the question, if they were voted in, or if they held a majority vote by roll call. The question was if the RC4 represented the CURRENT and MAJORITY opinion of the pilot group.

If the TA gets voted down, I will admit I was incorrect, but if it gets voted in, then humble pie is waiting to get served to ya'all.

Damn, cannot wait.
 
Rico,
You are factually incorrect. If 51% of, PHL pilots votted for the RC4, knowing they stood against more concessions, that is the majority of pilots they represent. If it was 51% in PIT, same thing. Now if 100% of all other pilots disagree, the "national" vote could be skewed heavily against the RC4 and that does not "prove" they were acting irresponsibly. This is the voting system in place, set by ALPA, if this is wrong it is not the RC4 fault, they are following the rules. They are the voice for their pilots, and their pilots ONLY.

BN
 
You are doing your membership a BIG disservice.

BTW, do you ever fly, or do you collect full flight pay loss for posting on these boards all day and night?

You are incorrect to suggest that labor will not play a significant role in our transformation, and it is pathetic that you fuel the "just shut it down or burn it to the ground" group.

Maybe your membership should sue you too, you have done more damage than anyone I can think of towards morale, and putting out misleading and slanted info.


PITbull said:
Bob,

Again, unions don't make decisions to liquidate, we don't make business plans, and we do not manage the airline.

The only decisions we can and do make is what we can and will work for. Those decisions dictate whether we survive personally or not. Through a vote, majority rules and dictates their worth.

The rest of the responsibility to operate an airline and create a plan and be able to execute it is up to the highly paid managment of this company. If they don't have the skills, specifically U who has used BK twice, then the chips will fall where they will.
[post="189064"][/post]​
 
You are, without a doubt, a broken record. You don't know who I am, what I do in a day, what I fly, when I fly or who pays me and how and what?

No smitchen of a clue! You need to get up pretty damn early to "out do me" and go to bed eally really late!

I'm just living OUT LOUD, sir.

One would think you would have more confidence in your "I'll-take-the-job-at-whatever" position. After all, the majority do think like you, right????