US Airways Aircraft Lease Information

C

chipmunn

Guest
WASHINGTON (Aviation Daily) - The market value of US Airways’ leasing obligations to GECAS stands at $828.7 million for in-service aircraft and, $10.9 million for stored aircraft, Airclaims reports. The airline’s total leasing obligations for in-service aircraft are $970 million.
Chip asks: Do you think GECAS has a vested in US Airways remaining a on-going concern?
Chip comments: During this environment with depressed EETCs, 1000 jets parked, and the risk of UA entering bankruptcy, US and its consulting firm the Seabury Group, has signficant leverage over aircraft lessors, which has only been possible to restructure lease agreements by filing for bankruptcy. Do you believe the US lease restructuring achievements that will exceed the company's cost reduction target, could influence the UAL board at tomorrow's meeting?
 

Black Wind

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Sep 21, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 10/22/2002 1:44:13 PM chipmunn wrote:

WASHINGTON (Aviation Daily) - The market value of US Airways leasing obligations to GECAS stands at $828.7 million for in-service aircraft and, $10.9 million for stored aircraft, Airclaims reports. The airlines total leasing obligations for in-service aircraft are $970 million.

Chip asks: Do you think GECAS has a vested in US Airways remaining a on-going concern?

Chip comments: During this environment with depressed EETCs, 1000 jets parked, and the risk of UA entering bankruptcy, US and its consulting firm the Seabury Group, has signficant leverage over aircraft lessors, which has only been possible to restructure lease agreements by filing for bankruptcy. Do you believe the US lease restructuring achievements that will exceed the company's cost reduction target, could influence the UAL board at tomorrow's meeting?


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[/blockquote]


black wind asks:

what color is the sky in your world?

black wind comments:

the seabury group may find the lessors not as benevolent when the company comes looking for another helping of rate reductions.

black wind comments:

arent you the same guy that swore 'northwest will never allow ua to get its hands on u again'?

looks to me like northwest got its hands on delta instead


black wind comments:

Chip comments:
Do you believe the US lease restructuring achievements that will exceed the company's cost reduction target, could influence the UAL board at tomorrow's meeting?

since when is stiffing your creditors an achievement?

oh yeah, were gonna be way swayed by you deadbeats.
 

Black Wind

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Sep 21, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/23/2002 7:56:39 AM geo1004 wrote:
[P]Thanks for your post Chip.  I see your point and agree that:[BR][BR]1. Under its BK filing, US has been able to acheive cost-cutting measures that would have been impossible without the BK filing.[/P]
[P][STRONG]yes,walking away from your bills is quite the achievement.[/STRONG][/P]
[P][BR]2. That US's BK filing has saved the airline from liquidation (for now).[/P]
[P][STRONG]i wonder what the leasing companies will think now that they have to eat another 400 million[/STRONG][/P]
[P][BR]3. Given the horrid losses being filed by the majors in the U.S. airline industry, I agree that every major U.S. airline (especially UA) is looking at what US has been able to accomplish as far as cost reductions (both labor and aircraft lease costs).[/P]
[P][STRONG]what is this 'acomplishment'? saying screw the bills is an acomplishment the other majors are looking at? the 'majors' have long term plans that dont include killing the banks.[/STRONG][/P]
[P][BR]4. US is in a much stronger possition than many realize because it is the first major to have begun the process of true and meaningful cost reductions that address the current airline market situations (OK, maybe they haven't addressed the fuel cost issue as well as they could have but...)[/P]
[P][STRONG]so much stronger another 400 million is needed,so much stronger that 'true and meaningful' concessions came at gunpoint from employees and debtors.[/STRONG][/P]
[P][BR][BR] [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P][img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/14.gif']
 

AOG-N-IT

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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JFK777, You are absolutely correct. U/Dave knows this all too well. I still say the best thing we can do in the long term , is to send the A330-300's packing too!! U has not made the proper moves to support them in either the short or long term. We do however have a world of expierience with B767's with CF6 Engines. Rationlization of the fleet was a big issue..and still should be!! The purchase of the A330 not only breached that from an airframe standpoint..it scuttled it in regard to a hybrid P&W 4168A engine being used. I keep hoping that we can strike a deal for the Asiana B767-300's in the desert. This will not only be a bargain...it will give us cross-utilization of countless spare parts and aquired knowledge from both the Maintenance and the Piloting aspects. The 767 is a much easier plane to support abroad too. This will allow us to capitolize on our Pooling Agreements when these things break across the Atlantic.
 

geo1004

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
288
0
Thanks for your post Chip. I see your point and agree that:

1. Under its BK filing, US has been able to acheive cost-cutting measures that would have been impossible without the BK filing.
2. That US's BK filing has saved the airline from liquidation (for now).
3. Given the horrid losses being filed by the majors in the U.S. airline industry, I agree that every major U.S. airline (especially UA) is looking at what US has been able to accomplish as far as cost reductions (both labor and aircraft lease costs).
4. US is in a much stronger possition than many realize because it is the first major to have begun the process of true and meaningful cost reductions that address the current airline market situations (OK, maybe they haven't addressed the fuel cost issue as well as they could have but...)

 

AOG-N-IT

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
1,132
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www.usaviation.com
Blackwind, You calling us Dead Beats when your fanny is as deep in the boiling kettle as it is , is absolutely hilarious!! I'll bet if restructuring leases was the only thing available to save your job?, . you would say No to such a deal? Right Buckwheat!! Right now I'm willing to bet that you will grasp onto a twig , if it looked like a lifeline for UA. Tell me how wrong I am? Please!! I can use a good laugh right about now. Let's see how many more cuts take place at UA? Let's see what you have worked at trickle away. Then we will see you sweating like a pig watching a Richard Simmons video. It's real easy to talk trash until the reality of things really slaps you across the face. We never saw ourselves in such a position until the UA/US Merger failed...and our past leaders admitted to the world of finance that they had no Plan B. Things have a nasty way of coming back to you my friend...So be careful!! People that live in glass houses shouldn't be casting stones! Your own house of cards is looking pretty shakey too...so be prepared to face some real tough facts. Remember this when Tilton has to make some tough choices for you in the immediate future. P.S. Do the right thing..change your screen name from Blackwind ..to Breakwind!! You stink on Ice!!
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G4G5

Advanced
Aug 21, 2002
164
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And you don't think that GECAS has thought of this. They have smart people over their too. They fully understand that in this economy planes are going to be returned and in most cases they have prepared for this. They are not the only one leasing aircraft. You may want to sit down for this. Their will always be someone lineing up to lend you money. It's the percentage/interest or as Tony refers to it, Da Points. If U comes forward with a solid restructering plan and proves that it can pay it's bills then getting financing for aircraft from someone other then GECAS should not be a problem. Their loss is not U's problem at this point.

The problem will come when/if UAL goes BK. It would be in Daves best interest to get this behind him. Because, if UAL stops paying it's bills, the whole industry in going to be turned around and U will likly get placed on the back burner.
 

JFK777

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Aug 20, 2002
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What is GECAS going to do with a bunch of 1980's built 737, 757 or 767? They are better off taking a shave on the payment then repossesing the planes and putting then in Arizona. The market for 15 years 737-300/-400 is not robust.
 

Black Wind

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Sep 21, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/23/2002 8:29:54 AM JFK777 wrote:
[P]What is GECAS going to do with a bunch of 1980's built 737, 757 or 767?  They are better off taking a shave on the payment then repossesing the planes and putting then in Arizona.  The market for 15 years 737-300/-400 is not robust.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][STRONG]worth more for scrap aluminum [/STRONG][/P]
 

UAL777flyer

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Aug 20, 2002
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Black Wind,

Based on some of your previous posts, I assume that like me, you're also a UA employee. I wouldn't be so quick to condemn the actions of US Airways relative to filing bankruptcy and seeking protection from creditors. Considering that today is October 23 and our first debt payment is due on November 17, there is a strong likelihood that UA will shortly follow US into Ch.11. I hope it doesn't happen. But with each day that passes without the necessary cost saving agreements in place, we inch closer to bankruptcy.

Of course filing for bankruptcy and not being able to pay creditors isn't something to brag about. But it is a legal remedy for a failing business. As for the lessors being stiffed for even more cost savings, that is the nature of the game. They significantly mark up lease rates during a booming economy because it's a seller's, or in this case, lessor's, market. They know that when they enter into business with an airline that it is a risky proposition when you consider how volatile this industry is and how it operates on razor-thin profit margins even in the best of times. And I'm sure those leasing companies will get a nice taxi write-off. US isn't the only airline doing this. Right this moment UA, along with probably every other major, is actively seeking to lower its leasing costs, as well as the rest of its costs. There is no shame in attempting to do that when your #1 goal is to save your company. UA will do the very same thing if put in that position, which could be VERY soon if something doesn't give quickly.