US Airways nonstop LGA to PHX in the future?

[Diamondbacks2004]

US Airways doesn't have served daily nonstop between NY-LaGuardia Airport and Phoenix. But US Airways (operated by America West Airlines) have 3 daily nonstop flights from NY-Kennedy Airport to Phoenix only.

Because believe it or not, LGA prohibits direct flights originating over approx 1,800 miles from LGA, that is why there are no direct flights to LGA from West Coast cities either.

The distance restriction is 1500 miles. Occasionally excemptions are granted to this rule. Denver has a permanent exemption. Exemptions are also issued from time to time for Los Angeles LAX.

How do they get around the rules? Does a special law have to be passed? What other exceptions are there for LGA?

United Airlines goes most daily nonstop flights to Denver from LGA about 1619 miles everyday.

Delta Airlines goes 2 nonstop flights to Salt Lake City from LGA about 1991 miles on Saturday only.

US Airways go nonstop flight to Aruba from LGA about 1961 miles on Saturday only.

ATA Airlines discontinued nonstop flight from LGA to San Francisco on Saturday only after filed bankruptcy.

Why not to add nonstop flight on US Airways from LGA to PHX about 2146 miles on Saturday only in the future?

 

[nycbusdriver]

The perimeter rule for LGA is only in effect on weekdays.

The Port Authority of NY and NJ (not the FAA or Congress as many believe,) the operator of all three NYC airports, is responsible for the implementation of the perimeter rule for LGA.

The PANYNJ has granted exemptions from this rule in the past to allow an airline to serve its own hub non-stop from LGA (hence, DEN gets non-stops.)

USAirways is in negotiations with PANYNJ to acquire an exemption from the LGA perimeter rule to serve PHX and LAS (their hub cities) non-stop from LGA. The discussions are ongoing.

Sadly, inexplicably and incredibly, USAirways is making noises about trying to use Airbuses on these routes which only make sense with 757's (given the relatively short LGA runways, the amount of fuel necessary to serve the route and the likely popularity of non-stops to PHX and LAS.) Word is that an A321 on the route would have to block 80+ seats each flight! Why bother?

The perimeter rule was instituted ages ago when the PANYNY (then called the Port of New York Authority) decided to force passengers to use JFK and EWR, which were much less popular for domestic flights at the time. Since both airports now have plenty of service to pretty much everywhere, the perimeter rule makes no sense. But the PANYNJ is an arrogant pseudo-government bureaucracy not known for sense, logic or swift action.

 

[FCYTravis]

If they put 757s on the route they better put a bunch of F seats back - there'll be a lot of premium traffic PHX-LGA, and 8/14F aircraft won't cut it.

 

[700UW]

I do remember some HP Planes at LGA over the years, where did they fly too?

CMH?

 

[Art at ISP]

HP had service between LGA and their hub in CMH if I recall correctly. They were never able to fly nonstop to PHX or LAS.

DL was turned down for LGA-SLC daily service, and I believe they sued the Port Authority and lost over the perimeter rule.

US did announce Saturday only service to LAS a while back, but I don't think it was ever started.

NYCBusdriver, you are almost 100% right, except that the only day which is exempted from the perimeter rule is Saturday-Sunday is subject to the restrictions as well.

Although it may be time to reconsider this antiquated rule, I also agree that 757's make the most sense from LGA long range. DL just announced Sat service to LAS and LAX from LGA, using 757's. The A321's just don't have the legs to make it with the short runways at LGA. Blocking 80 seats on a 321 would be a waste--why not then just use the 319 or 320? I do believe they have the legs to make the trip full even with a 7000 foot runway--am I correct?

My best to you all.......

 

[lowfareair]

I do remember some HP Planes at LGA over the years, where did they fly too?

CMH?

Yup

 

[john john]

http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseact...Content_id=1601
Doug needs to call his friend or has he

 

[LGA777]

A couple comments. The DEN service is allowed under grandfather rights. When the perimetor rule was iniated both UA and CO where serving their then respective hubs at DEN. The Port Authority grandfathered the route at that time. CO has not flown the route in many years since they dismanteled their DEN hub but F9 was able to serve DEN-LGA as a new carrier because of the grandfather status.

As far as 319/320's serving LGA-PHX/LAS non-stop there would be restrictions, especially in the Summer or when the westbound headwinds are strong. If US is able to aquire additional 757's they would be the ideal aircraft and I believe the demand to fill 3 757's a day in each market is there !

Regards

LGA777

 

[mga707]

I do remember some HP Planes at LGA over the years, where did they fly too?

CMH?

CMH-LGA came later, with the CMH 'hub', but before that HP ran some one-stops from PHX to LGA. Their original LGA routings (late 80s) were PHX-ICT-LGA and PHX-OMA-LGA.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

The perimeter rule applies to all... Denver was grandfathered. I think that if they granted exceptions, they'd have to grant exceptions to everyone. Maybe they could extend the perimeter to include SLC, PHX and LAS, but it would re-raise the issue about why not the pure west coast.

PA can manage their airport system in congested conditions with reasonable measures, but when it starts picking and choosing cities, it sounds like determining rates and routes which is illegal under the deregulation act and probably constitutionally pre-empted.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways officials have held two recent meetings with Port Authority of New York and New Jersey officials at the LGA US Airways Club in regard to obtaining slots to fly to both PHX and LAS from LGA.

In my opinion, this service could replace current US Airways service operated by pre-merger America West flights from JFK to PHX and LAS. According to LGA CSA personnel the JFK to PHX and LAS service does not have very strong yield.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually, the PHX yields aren't that bad considering the distance and that B6 serves that market (as well as LAS) which depresses yields. HP has the largest market share NYC-PHX and achieves a yield of just over 10.1 cents (that's 3Q05 data).

The average yield NYC-LAS is just over 9.4 cents, but that not HP specific - B6 has both the largest market share and lowest average fare, so the HP average fare isn't given.

Jim

 

[Flying Titan]

B6 runs these routes from JFK w/ A320s, seems like they would be no problem at all operationally for A319s - even with full loads and the short LGA runways.

 

[GroundedBoricua]

NYCBusdriver, you are almost 100% right, except that the only day which is exempted from the perimeter rule is Saturday-Sunday is subject to the restrictions as well.

Although it may be time to reconsider this antiquated rule, I also agree that 757's make the most sense from LGA long range. DL just announced Sat service to LAS and LAX from LGA, using 757's. The A321's just don't have the legs to make it with the short runways at LGA. Blocking 80 seats on a 321 would be a waste--why not then just use the 319 or 320? I do believe they have the legs to make the trip full even with a 7000 foot runway--am I correct?

My best to you all.......

Acutally the runways at LGA are shorter than 7000. they are in the 6000 range. Forget the A321 for this. 757 is the plane for the job.

To get the port athority to change the rule, good luck. The rule sucks. So many rpofitable routes that can be served from LGA which are just over 1500 miles away

LGA-LAS
LGA-PHX
LGA-SJU
LGA-MBJ
LGA-SDQ

to mention just some of them. The only problem with MBJ and SDQ is you have to have customs which LGA lacks.

 

[Art at ISP]

GB,

LGA runways are 7002 feet in length-they were extended years ago.

There are however weight limits due to the fact that parts of the airport are actually built on piers.