US Airways Pilots Labor Thread 4/21-4/28

[Richard]

I have decided to start the new thread for the week today rather than wait until tomorrow.

It still appears some of you choose not to follow the rules of the board. As a reminder, you MAY discuss the issues, but you may not comment on, insult, or otherwise attack the POSTERS. You may NOT call names, you may NOT use profanity, even if disguised, and you may NOT post flame bait.

We have deleted too many posts from the last thread due to violation of the rules above. Please be reminded that ANY post which contains material not conforming to the rules of the board will be DELETED without comment or notification, and the poster subject to further action.

Finally, again, we do realize this is a passionate issue, but we ask you ONE MORE TIME to think before you post. The posts on these pilots' threads do NOTHING to enhance your position or standing, and actually do a disservice to your profession, your company, and whichever side you take on the issue at hand.

PLEASE OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD.

 

[prechilill]

Just scanned the motions of lemine and the trend of this case is still the same- everything AOL wanted was accepted and practically everything Seham wanted was rejected, mostly for being irrelevant but also because the Harvard trained judge couldn't figure out what Seham even wanted in a few of his arguments. I guess Seham is so incoherent he has trouble putting an argument together.
There really is no wonder SSMP is the legal team for USAPA, and I say it without sarcasm. I am believing now the reason the two ended up together is simply because no successful law firm would take USAPA's case, or at least talk the talk Brafford, Theuer, King et al. wanted to hear. Kind of like they were meant for one another. It really is starting to look like USAPA's ambitions are about to get pounded into the ground. They have created their own problems and we are where we are today because the East pilots voted out ALPA. In retrospect, that was probably the best single event to preserve Nicolau- Prater was scary and wanted the west to buckle. Thank god that goof is out of my life! So I owe the east guys a thank you, and probably another thanks for hiring one of the most incompetent law firms around.
After the trial, and assuming the west prevails, we are still far from over. The remedy phase will be just as crucial for fixing this mess which the intransigent east pilot leaders have set up. Hopefully Judge Wake will deal with them directly.
Next week is going to be fun.

 

[Elevation]

moot and denied, repeat.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I am believing now the reason the two ended up together is simply because no successful law firm would take USAPA's case, or at least talk the talk Brafford, Theuer, King et al. wanted to hear. Kind of like they were meant for one another.

You are 100% correct. There's only a handful of labor attorneys in the country experienced in RLA cases so they're all well known. Johnnie Mac (the former AWA MEC Chairman) stated that Seham repeatedly contacted him looking for business. We weren't interested.

It's absolutely shocking that a lawyer looking for business would tell a potential client they have a good case. Shocking, I tell you.

Just think, had every lawyer told USAPA they would lose do you think they would've done anything different?

 

[700UW]

Seeham lost his cash cow with the McCormick Group who controls AMFA when NW went out on strike, he has to replace that money.

He also lost the PFAA which was also controlled by the McCormick Group when NWA's FAs voted them out.

He also lost a landmark case when representing AMFA at ACA, he lost the case that a company has to remain status quo during a first CBA negotiation, where before that case every company had to remain status quo until Seeham entered the pic and lost the case badly for AMFA.

He also represented EL AL and I think Alitalia when they locked out US based employees.

I guess USAPA did not research his background.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I guess USAPA did not research his background.

No, I'm sure they did. He told them what they wanted to hear and that was enough.

 

[ClueByFour]

Quote of the week from the judge:

“No evidence will be admitted to challenge the process, procedure, or decision of the Nicolau Award.â€￾

Can't wait to hear how they will then get Sully/Skiles onto the stand to say anything of substance.

 

[Megasnoop]

You are 100% correct. Johnnie Mac (the former AWA MEC Chairman) stated that Seham repeatedly contacted him looking for business. We weren't interested.

100% incorrect. when Johnnie Mac was organizing his own DOA union, AWAPA (not to be confused with AWAPPA), guess who he hired as his attorney? Lee Seham.

To Nic4Us: one of your former MEC Chairmen has turned down 4 East pilot JS requests in the past couple weeks. Were not RIK, but Im not sure I can blame any of our CAs who follow that example.

And to Susie, thanks for paying up. We got legal bills to pay. Snoop

 

[Ardenian]

Although this next few weeks will be interesting, there is little the average pilot can do about the outcome. It's in the lawyer's hands.

Now, there exists something on which we all can have an effect...

Any thoughts on how Jan 01, 2010 will turn out?

 

[700UW]

To disclose what the Seham law firm gets from AMFA and whether he knows that the Seham firm has long represented airline managements in opposing workers and their unions. According to a source inside the labor movement, Martin Seham and/or Lee Seham have represented Varig Brazilian Airlines on a continuing basis; the Sperry Gyroscope Company against the Engineers Association; Pan American Airways against the Seafarers International Union of North America; Vantage Steamship Corporation against the National Maritime Union of America; Maritime Overseas Corporation against the Masters, Mates and Pilots and the International Longshoreman’s Association; and Jackson Engineering Company against the Marine and Shipbuilders Workers. And The Seham firm also has represented El Al Israeli Airlines, Air Lingus, SAS Scandinavian Airlines, TWA. Mt. Vernon Tanker Company, Seatrain Lines, Inc., Delta Steamship Lines, Zapata Bulk Transportation, Inc., Wabash Transport, the Maritime Association, Airfreight Express Limited, A. Millner Company and the Owners Committee on Electric Rates.

 

[nic4us]

the Seham firm has long represented airline managements in opposing workers and their unions. According to a source inside the labor movement, Martin Seham and/or Lee Seham have represented

Pan American Airways against the Seafarers International Union of North America;

Which workgroup at PanAm were Seafarers?

 

[nostradamus]

Quote of the week from the judge:



Can't wait to hear how they will then get Sully/Skiles onto the stand to say anything of substance.

How about if they are asked if they feel their vote for USAPA was due to the years of ineptitude by ALPA, not a knee jerk reaction. Maybe they may be asked about their encounters with the west, including jump seat requests.

You can not represent those who do not want to be represented.

There has been no reorder of any list as of yet. The transition agreement calls for separate operations, including separate furloughing. Has the west been cooperative in negotiations concerning all pilots? Did the attempted sabotage of USAPA,s daily chores, cause a delay in representing pilots? This delay was not caused by only a few west pilots, there were many.

This will all be eventually decided by legal means. Regardless of the result there will be appeals.

Those who are selling their crops in April before the fall harvest, will be disappointed.

I therefore render the discussions on this board moot due to Paradigm Paralysis by both sides.

 

[nic4us]

To Nic4Us: one of your former MEC Chairmen has turned down 4 East pilot JS requests in the past couple weeks. Were not RIK, but Im not sure I can blame any of our CAs who follow that example.

Snoop

were not RIK? I take that to mean... we are not Reciprocating In Kind...correct?

Well all I can say is we have had some really lousy MEC chairmen, So I would not be surprised if it is true, but hey, we have also recalled or attempted recall of just about every one of them.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

How about if they are asked if they feel their vote for USAPA was due to the years of ineptitude by ALPA, not a knee jerk reaction. Maybe they may be asked about their encounters with the west, including jump seat requests.

You can not represent those who do not want to be represented.

There has been no reorder of any list as of yet. The transition agreement calls for separate operations, including separate furloughing. Has the west been cooperative in negotiations concerning all pilots? Did the attempted sabotage of USAPA,s daily chores, cause a delay in representing pilots? This delay was not caused by only a few west pilots, there were many.

This will all be eventually decided by legal means. Regardless of the result there will be appeals.

Those who are selling their crops in April before the fall harvest, will be disappointed.

I therefore render the discussions on this board moot due to Paradigm Paralysis by both sides.

How about if they are asked whether its obvious that USAPA was formed so that the East could weenie out of their agreed to binding arbitration (which both sides agreed to)?

 

[ClueByFour]

How about if they are asked if they feel their vote for USAPA was due to the years of ineptitude by ALPA, not a knee jerk reaction. Maybe they may be asked about their encounters with the west, including jump seat requests.

Not at all relevant to the DFR.

I therefore render the discussions on this board moot due to Paradigm Paralysis by both sides.

I love how you waited until after the judge said:

No evidence will be admitted to challenge the process, procedure, or decision of the Nicolau Award.

to "render the discussion moot."