US Airways Pilots' Labor Thread 5/19-5/26 READ THE FIRST POST

[Richard]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Another week, another thread..and another record of deleted posts on the pilots' thread....many of which never saw the light of day, and only served to extend some posters' period of time on preview.

As we pass into a new phase of the discussion (argument) here, I will remind you that NO personal remarks, insults, comments or namecalling will be permitted. If you make such remarks, EVEN if part of a much longer post, the ENTIRE post will be deleted without comment, and you will face a suspension of posting rights.

In addition, flaming, or making posts just intended to rile up the opposing side of the issue will not be tolerated either, and will carry a mandatory 14 day suspension.

A final note--one of your bretheren saw fit to create a new screen name for himself in order to skirt a suspension or preview period. That, good members, is easy for us to track, and is a blatant violation of the rules which may result in termination of ALL accounts, and blockage of ALL IP addresses associated with the accounts.

Again-while we realize this is a sensitive issue, we expect ALL of you to discuss or argue it in an adult manner without resorting to the childish behavior which had prevailed on this thread for so long. Such posting does little to help your respective causes and brings discredit and disrespect upon your profession.

Thank you.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

This whole situation came about because ALPA was preparing for a United or Continental combination with US Airways. This was ALPA's attempt to advantage the future merger or acquisition seniority using two pilot "neutrals", one from United and one from Continental. The US Airways ALPA rep puppets were ready to get national jobs if this farce would have taken place. They picked the Neutrals that ALPA national wanted.

America West pilots refused to budge on the Nicolau fiasco. The most important aspect of the transition agreement is a contract before the seniority could be taken off the shelf. They were led to believe by ALPA not to budge because ALPA expected to cram the rest down by receivership methods against the US Airways pilots.

When you hear the drum beat by the West pilots with chants of lets move on, lets get a contract that is better for all pilots and mankind, lets run a mock bid, their eyes are always on the prize of the imminent merger or acquisition.

The fact of the matter is that West Pilots are out of money and will not be able to fund an appeal. Watch for the anonymous contributor to step in to help them shortly. Follow the money trail and you will find the main benefactors.

An appeals court will allow evidence that ALPA or the West pilots did not want the public to know.

Nostro-

Why is it always the West didn't/wouldn't budge on the Nicolau?

The east wouldn't budge either.

Any comment on this-

http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/Welcome_and_M..._Statement.html

Seems there are some questions being asked about the $$ issue. :blink:

And why does Ciabattoni's name appear in the recent usapa update with the 'carry on at all costs' resolution? I thought he was an ALPA boogey man. :huh:

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

The truth shall set you free!!!

PHOENIX DOMICILE SPECIAL UPDATE
May 19, 2009

Fellow pilots,
We apologize for lack of communication on our part, but it's not for lack of trying (IN OUR OPINION). We put out an update, but it has been held up by the mothership (IN OUR OPINION) because it supposedly violates the USAPA communication policy. USAPA says that we may not put out items as fact if the Association doesn't see them as fact, and wanted us to insert "in our opinion" in several places. This is rather funny (IN OUR OPINION) considering that USAPA's update after the verdict told the membership that USAPA had to, "quite literally," argue their case with two hands tied behind their backs. We were in court throughout the trial and never did we see anyone with hands tied at all (OUR OPINION). We will continue to try to put out our message to our membership, but (IN OUR OPINION....oh, and the opinion of nine members of a federal jury) we seem not to be represented.


Fraternally,

 

[hp_fa]

I'm alternating between laughing and thinking that is incredibly sad.

 

[Atlantic]

Right back at you HP. We have a dog's breakfast now.

 

[Tiger 1050]

The truth shall set you free!!!

PHOENIX DOMICILE SPECIAL UPDATE
May 19, 2009

Fellow pilots,
We apologize for lack of communication on our part, but it's not for lack of trying (IN OUR OPINION). We put out an update, but it has been held up by the mothership (IN OUR OPINION) because it supposedly violates the USAPA communication policy. USAPA says that we may not put out items as fact if the Association doesn't see them as fact, and wanted us to insert "in our opinion" in several places. This is rather funny (IN OUR OPINION) considering that USAPA's update after the verdict told the membership that USAPA had to, "quite literally," argue their case with two hands tied behind their backs. We were in court throughout the trial and never did we see anyone with hands tied at all (OUR OPINION). We will continue to try to put out our message to our membership, but (IN OUR OPINION....oh, and the opinion of nine members of a federal jury) we seem not to be represented.


Fraternally,

I'm sure I'll see the corn field for this but anyone who believes USAPA is fair and balanced with integrity as its core value is a COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!!

 

[beachboy]

Sit back guys and gals. You are witnessing the meltdown of an airline and history.

 

[Richard]

You're close Tiger--if you had aimed that at an individual the corn field it would have been.

We're trying to be fair here, folks, please don't test us.

Thank you.

 

[Mike]

Well....here we go again. 400 Posts, same 12 people saying the same things for another week. Sigh.....

 

[exB717Flyer]

Have you looked at the list a few years down the road. Seems like you all always disregard that part.

Doesn't matter what I regard or disregard. I agree with Nicolau's reasoning.

The purpose of an arbitrator is to make a decision based on one side vs the other side, not as a negotiator.

Only if he has to. Every arbitrator prefers the parties to come to an agreement for obvious reasons.

The resulting arbitrated decision must follow guidelines which we all know were not followed.

You're wrong and I can prove it: I know ALPA Merger Policy was followed completely. The fact that you don't agree with Nicolau's decision doesn't mean ALPA policy wasn't followed. Oh, and a federal judge and jury agree with me. Your man Seham is smarter than Judge Wake? Good luck with that (read sarcasm).

The membership was fully aware of the arbitrator's request to come off DOH.

Perhaps, but was the East membership aware that Nicolau had no intention of giving you DOH? I gotta believe you wouldn't have needed CIRP activation had your expectations been managed properly.

Seems to me also that it is the west that is keeping USAPA from negotiating a new contract, with lawsuits, election snafus etc.

Very perceptive. Drop the attack on our seniority and that'll change.

Keeping your union battling itself is counterproductive.

True. Is President Cleary listening? Or is he "supremely confident" it's not a problem?

Get involved, pay dues, read the conditions and restrictions, get older, watch attrition happen , move up the list, fly to europe then finally retire with your DOH. What a concept .

I'm a member in good standing and from the beginning I've advocated the same for my AWA colleagues. I believe we can be far more effective influencing USAPA from the inside than out. As far as the future attrition, well, the future doesn't always turn out as expected. In 1999 when I was hired at TWA I was told to expect a five-year upgrade. Instead I've been furloughed for seven years. Nicolau understood the distant future wasn't his concern because too much can happen. Witness also the NW/DL arbitration. Long-term fences are a thing of the past because all they do is foster prolonged conflict. I may get that attrition you think I will and I may not. I wouldn't bet on it in any case.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

I'm sure I'll see the corn field for this but anyone who believes USAPA is fair and balanced with integrity as its core value is a COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!!

I'm sure I'll see the corn field for this but anyone who believes NICOLAU is fair and balanced is a COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!!

 

[boeingplt]

Well....here we go again. 400 Posts, same 12 people saying the same things for another week. Sigh.....

NO SHIZEL, DIZEL!

 

[cleardirect]

I'm sure I'll see the corn field for this but anyone who believes NICOLAU is fair and balanced is a COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!!

You forgot to say "in my opinion". That is the key phrase in usapa land.

 

[Nicstolemyjob]

I find it interesting that the same handful of west posters' continue the daily barage of propaganda even after the court case is over and waiting for round 2. I guess it has something to do with the fact that regardless of the nature of the remedy Wake cooks up, he can't make it happen without a ratified CBA. Maybe that's what drives the prolific posting of the "victors" in the court case.
"It's the Nic!...PERIOD!...END OF STORY...GAME OVER....YOU LOSE.....TIME TO SIGN THE KIRBY DEAL.....(ad infinitem)..lets hold hands and walk forward together and get ol' Dougie...

Maybe we can have a spelling bee instead, because the drivel on and on about who, what, how, why, and when means nada. We'll see what Wake conjures up next month in the form of ironclad language that neuters the East pilots and jams the Nicolau list into the next joint CBA that the East won't be able to vote down via a democratic process....(even though thats exactly what he said he can't intervene in)....meantime: what are you guys so wound up about? That Wake is still going to allow for a ratification vote on any CBA containing the Nic?
You should be.

That he may be considering Seham's suggestion as outlined in the transcripts?

(wouldn't that just be a hoot?)

Could it be that the West has figured out that the Nic allows them to RUN from the shrinking markets out there and fall into the cockpits of some juicy 76's or 330's? Is that what all the ferver is about? I guess I don't get it.

 

[oscarjazz]

I wonder if there are any moderate views on either side of this issue. I know that web boards in general attract the most caustic comments, but I wonder if there any lurkers that have some balanced view of this deal. It seems that just about every outside observer sees the train wreck of this situation but the pilots on both sides seem willing to engage in this mutual suicide pact.

Every one has some "principle" that they are standing on, but from an outsider's point of view that "principle" seems based on stubbornness rather than any true principle. I guess the closest thing that I can get to a principle is about money.

There is an easy solution, build some fences for the East and the Nicolau list stands. Get a contract, get a pay raise, move on with your lives. Probably need to find some payback for the West pilots that were furloughed.

Delta recognized the advantages of combined operations and gave us pay raises, retirement, and a pretty good slug of stock to get it done quickly. Why don't you guys work this out and make Dougie pay up?

If the hardliners keep controlling this mess you all lose. At some point, your airline will become a target. They can't get financing for their A-330's, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel with the convertible market. They admitted in their last conference call that they couldn't even afford to hedge anymore. These are the signs of a company heading to bankruptcy, believe it I have seen it before, got the T-Shirt.

If someone with some sense doesn't take hold of this situation, you will all look back on it and regret it. This seems so sad.