US Airways & Spirit

[SparrowHawk]

Spirit Airlines Bucks Trends, Plans More Growth

Fast-growing Spirit, an anomaly in a U.S. aircraft industry that is captivated by capacity management, said the order would supplement its existing orders for 33 aircraft. The planes would be used in its current markets -- the U.S., the Caribbean and Latin America.

MORE HERE


I posted this here as the article and financials paint a very interesting picture. Throw in Labor relations as well. The picture is one of contrast. The contrast that occurs when one company is run via the wallet and the spreadsheet to the exclusion of all else and another whose senior management are marketeers who have an in depth understanding of exactly who their customer is and how to reach them and GROW the business.

Spirit has 36 planes with a hard order for 33 more and a "Memo of Understanding" for another 75 from Airbus.
US Airways has continually reduced or managed capacity.

Spirit Pilots got a raise! Yes they had a strike also, but a raise none the less
US Airways and their pilots? Well we know the story there

Through the first 9 months of 2011, Spirit on a percentage basis was far more profitable than US Airways.
Neither made their money off fuel hedges.

Spirit is hiring! 39 openings on their web site. There are Pilot and F/A openings that may be for more than one person so the actual number of open positions is unclear.

When you look at the 2 airlines it's easy to see which airline Management team is looking to build and operate an airline and which one is trying to buff up the balance sheet in order to get a merger and a FAT PAYDAY. I'll leave you decide which airline is which 😀
52 Employees got the boot at US Airways

 

[cynic]

Spirit has very poor relations with their labor groups. In fact, the pilots recently had to go on strike to get their new contract completed. They also operate as an ULFC, something US could never do given their cost structure.Yes, they are much more profitable. No, their situation can't be compared directly for a wide variety of reasons. In short, apples and geraniums.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Spirit has very poor relations with their labor groups. In fact, the pilots recently had to go on strike to get their new contract completed. They also operate as an ULFC, something US could never do given their cost structure.Yes, they are much more profitable. No, their situation can't be compared directly for a wide variety of reasons. In short, apples and geraniums.

Business results are measured by ONE standard. Return on Investment or Profit. Spirit does a better job.

I know some folks at Spirit and I'm not hearing the poor labor relations mantra like at US. Be serious! A 6 year struggle and no contract in sight versus a 5 day strike? I think Spirit wins in this case.

IF, and I would question the amount of Labor troubles NK has it's the result of the business model they use. Again the contrast shines brightly. Did NK engage in hard nosed negotiations? You Bet! End result is the pilots make almost if not a bit more per hour then US does.

 

[icehead]

Spirit has very poor relations with their labor groups. In fact, the pilots recently had to go on strike to get their new contract completed. They also operate as an ULFC, something US could never do given their cost structure.Yes, they are much more profitable. No, their situation can't be compared directly for a wide variety of reasons. In short, apples and geraniums.

We have poor labor relations to. Along with a low market cap and a lot of debt. Your right were in a class by ourselves. Not a fair comparison.

http://ycharts.com/companies/SAVE
http://ycharts.com/companies/LCC
http://ycharts.com/companies/UAL

 

[icehead]

dupe

 

[WorldTraveler]

NK is not a legacy airline like US... attempting to compare w/o understanding that basic fact renders the comparison worthless.
That doesn't mean there are some valid comparisons such as labor relations and growth that can be made - but the underlying dynamics are immensely different.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

When you look at the 2 airlines it's easy to see which airline Management team is looking to build and operate an airline and which one is trying to buff up the balance sheet in order to get a merger and a FAT PAYDAY. I'll leave you decide which airline is which 😀

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you hate B. Baldanza when he was at US, and now you seem to worship the ground he walks on? Care to explain the flip-flop?

 

[SparrowHawk]

NK is not a legacy airline like US... attempting to compare w/o understanding that basic fact renders the comparison worthless.
That doesn't mean there are some valid comparisons such as labor relations and growth that can be made - but the underlying dynamics are immensely different.

Renders the comparison worthless?

I see we have our smug arrogant Delta is Jesus hat on today.

I don't care if you're flying a freaking magic carpet or slinging copiers for a living, business is business and Business Models and which one to use is merely another business decision that executives make every day. NK chose a different model. US post merger could have done the same. As could DL post NWA merger. The management teams at the respective airlines made business decisions. Spirit has made the one that is debt free and more profitable then US.

The underlying dynamics are different because the Management teams at BOTH carriers made conscious business decisions based upon what they felt was in the best interests of the shareholders. Frankly I'm tired of the hand wringing "OH, we're a legacy carrier and it's different you can't really compare" EXCUSE ME! Who decided that US was a network carrier? A Pound Puppy? The Duke of Dubuque? Or was it Fearless Leader Doug Parker?

B. Ben Baldanza & Barry Biffle, both former US executives decided to change business model and they are living with their decision and doing quite well. All we get from the Tempe clown posse is excuses. It would be of interest to note both carriers rely of the A/319/320/321 aircraft so if the planes are essentially the same, the ATC, Weather, Fuel Costs, runway length are the same then it must be that one carrier has built a better mouse trap.

 

[flybynite]

MORE HERE


I posted this here as the article and financials paint a very interesting picture. Throw in Labor relations as well. The picture is one of contrast. The contrast that occurs when one company is run via the wallet and the spreadsheet to the exclusion of all else and another whose senior management are marketeers who have an in depth understanding of exactly who their customer is and how to reach them and GROW the business.

Spirit has 36 planes with a hard order for 33 more and a "Memo of Understanding" for another 75 from Airbus.
US Airways has continually reduced or managed capacity.

Spirit Pilots got a raise! Yes they had a strike also, but a raise none the less
US Airways and their pilots? Well we know the story there

Through the first 9 months of 2011, Spirit on a percentage basis was far more profitable than US Airways.
Neither made their money off fuel hedges.

Spirit is hiring! 39 openings on their web site. There are Pilot and F/A openings that may be for more than one person so the actual number of open positions is unclear.

When you look at the 2 airlines it's easy to see which airline Management team is looking to build and operate an airline and which one is trying to buff up the balance sheet in order to get a merger and a FAT PAYDAY. I'll leave you decide which airline is which 😀
52 Employees got the boot at US Airways

Okay...lets have a look at this.

Spirit is almost a commuter airline when it comes wages and benefits. Sad but true...if those pilots got a raise I can just about tell you it wasn't much. Maybe enough for an extra bag of groceries.

39 openings is pitiful and you know it. Please don't get so exited as to invest your money there.

Spirit is probably hoping and praying that someone will take some interest in them and buy them. I don't see that happening. Let it die a nice quite death. ( No offence to the employees..by the way..)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Okay...lets have a look at this.

Spirit is almost a commuter airline when it comes wages and benefits. Sad but true...if those pilots got a raise I can just about tell you it wasn't much. Maybe enough for an extra bag of groceries.

Speaking only of pilots...Spirit 12 year A320 captain rate $153...12 year A320 f/o rate $91. East 12 year A320 rate $125...12 year A320 f/o rate $85. West 12 year A320 captain rate $138...12 year A320 f/o rate $91.

Jim

 

[SparrowHawk]

Okay...lets have a look at this.

Spirit is almost a commuter airline when it comes wages and benefits. Sad but true...if those pilots got a raise I can just about tell you it wasn't much. Maybe enough for an extra bag of groceries.

39 openings is pitiful and you know it. Please don't get so exited as to invest your money there.

Spirit is probably hoping and praying that someone will take some interest in them and buy them. I don't see that happening. Let it die a nice quite death. ( No offence to the employees..by the way..)

Actually the pilots hourly wage with the new contract is very close to US. I'm told that at certain points it actually exceeds US East.

Take a Look before you speak

Top of Scale A319 Captain - NK = $164 and change
Top of Scale A319 Captain - US = $141 and change

Roughly a $23/hr differential and a 72 hour line that's about $1,656.00! That's a big assed bag of groceries 😀 😀

 

[BoeingBoy]

Top of Scale A319 Captain - US = $141 and change

That's old and apparently reflects the west rates in 2009. East rates are lower.

Jim

 

[SparrowHawk]

That's old and apparently reflects the west rates in 2009. East rates are lower.

Jim

Nice catch! It did say West rates on the web site. Pretty pathetic, yet somehow Spirit is debt free and more profitable on a percentage basis. How could that be? What with all that scary talent in Tempe, US should be running rings around Spirit. Hell, what could two "Dummies" from old US know? Except how to grow a business.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Nice catch! It did say West rates on the web site. Pretty pathetic, yet somehow Spirit is debt free and more profitable on a percentage basis. How could that be? What with all that scary talent in Tempe, US should be running rings around Spirit. Hell, what could two "Dummies" from old US know? Except how to grow a business.

There are far more than two from the old US.

 

[SparrowHawk]

There are far more than two from the old US.

Oh YES! Quite a few. I think three of the top four are ex-US and it goes all the way down to mechanics and the like.