Us Partner Ua Misses Payments

USA320Pilot

Veteran
May 18, 2003
8,175
1,539
www.usaviation.com
United turned down a concession package in Denver

S&P: “United has missed payments on most of its airport revenue bonds and said it has stopped making any such payments since Aprilâ€￾


DENVER (Reuters) - Bankrupt United Airlines about a month ago rejected an offer from the city of Denver that would have given it $10 million in concessions in exchange for ceding some gates at Denver International Airport, the mayor's spokeswoman said on Thursday.

Complete Story
 
Yesterday Reuters reported Standard & Poor's analyst Philip Baggaley in a report issued on Thursday said United has missed payments on most of its airport revenue bonds and said it has stopped making any such payments since April. "The ongoing disputes with a wide range of creditors are likely to make potential lenders cautious in future dealings with United if and when it reorganizes successfully," Baggaley said.

Chip asks: During the recent US Airways MEC meeting ALPA President Captain Duane Woerth said United was just making its DIP covenants. I wonder how United’s financial results and its ability to meet strict DIP requirements would be effected if the airline would be making all of its payments?

Respectfully,

Chip
 
Chip asks: During the recent US Airways MEC meeting ALPA President Captain Duane Woerth said United was just making its DIP covenants.

I know, isn't that wonderful. I bet you're trying to figure out how we have managed to make them EVERY SINGLE TIME yet U never met one. Probably because we are a BETTER company.
 
Fly:

Fly said: I know, isn't that wonderful. I bet you're trying to figure out how we have managed to make them EVERY SINGLE TIME yet U never met one. Probably because we are a BETTER company.

Chip responds: Fly, to my knowledge US Airways did not have DIP covenants that had specific revenue and cash flow targets. Can you show me one article that made this statement?

I do not believe it is appropriate to “shoot the messengerâ€￾ or try to compare the companies, however, since you started this type of debate can you answer a few questions?

Which airline received a federal loan guarantee and which airline did not? Which airline has seven post bankruptcy investors and which airline has none? Why did Duane Woerth tell the US Airways MEC that United’s only access to the capital markets is through the ATSB (which could mean there is no traditional exit financing at this time), whereas US Airways had TPG and RSA offer to invest in the Arlington-based airline?

If United was a better company, why would seven investors provided funds to US Airways and not have invested in United instead? It appears Wall Street does not agree with your view of a better company.

Respectfully,

Chip
 
Duh, I give up, Chip, which airline and why would 7 investors have given money to U? :lol:
 
Chip responds: I do not believe it is appropriate to “shoot the messengerâ€￾ or try to compare the companies, however, since you started this type of debate can you answer a few questions?

Ok, what would you suggest I use? Better watch out for my ENTER key, and don't turn or I just may use the SHIFT key on you


Are you friggin serious??????? :shock: What would you call it?
 
Chip Munn said:
Chip asks: During the recent US Airways MEC meeting ALPA President Captain Duane Woerth said United was just making its DIP covenants. I wonder how United’s financial results and its ability to meet strict DIP requirements would be effected if the airline would be making all of its payments?
Chip, I think the simple answer is UAL could not be making the DIP requirements if they were paying all their bills. They have really have no choice though. If they don't make the DIP requirements, they loose their money. They are gambling that things will get better and a deal can be worked out with those they still owe money. Frankly, it's bullsh*t. The rest of us have to pay our bills. Bankruptcy should be a short term good deal......get your house in order and get out of BK, or liquidate. Its not fair to all the well run airlines to allow UAL to skip on its bills.
 
Chip, I think the simple answer is UAL could not be making the DIP requirements if they were paying all their bills. They have really have no choice though. If they don't make the DIP requirements, they loose their money. They are gambling that things will get better and a deal can be worked out with those they still owe money. Frankly, it's bullsh*t. The rest of us have to pay our bills. Bankruptcy should be a short term good deal......get your house in order and get out of BK, or liquidate. Its not fair to all the well run airlines to allow UAL to skip on its bills. [/quote]
Mike,
You seem to have a missconception about DIP requirements and BK law. whether or not we pay our current obligations has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with meeting DIP requirements

DIP Requirements:

EBIDTAR earnings before interest, depreciation, taxes, amortization, and rent. Pretty much operating profit PLUS the leases and depreciation (in other words add those balance sheet costs back in to get an even higher "profit") No where does it say "and oh by the way stuff you don't feel like paying". With the judges approval, ORD and DEN could evict UAL for nonpayment. But thats how it works. We use our leverage, the other companies use theirs, and we NEGOTIATE a solution under the supervision of the court. Can we stay in BK forever? NO. There are competing interest. As long as we are making progress toward a more viable vibrant UAL, the judge and the CC will allow us to stay in. If it appears there is no more progress to be made, and we aren't viable, then we'll have a fire sale. As far as "bullsh*t", if BK was such a smoking deal, why doesn't your company do it? Why were our competitors lobbying for our ATSB rejection if BK would be "good" for UAL? they had some alltruistic love for taxpayers? BK sucks. You lose customers, you downsize, you lose prestige. On balance, staying out is much better than going in. But it's the LAW. There is NOTHING underhand going on.
 
Busdrvr said:
You seem to have a missconception about DIP requirements and BK law. whether or not we pay our current obligations has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with meeting DIP requirements
Ok, I don't fully understand the DIP requirements. But I do understand BK law. The fact is, you are not paying all your bills while in BK. Some debt/bills will be written off entirely, some will be restructured so that the people you owe money will not receive their full amounts. Shareholder equity is wiped out. Airlines that are not in CH11 don't have this luxury.

BTW my company did go CH11 and we are now back out. If we can't make it now, then we should not be allowed CH11 a second time. That is the failure of BK laws. CH11 should be a one time, short term chance to restructure. Fail again, and you are CH7.

PS, the ATSB loans and BK are independent of each other. Being BK is not a requirement for the ATSB loans, nor is the ATSB loan a requirement to exit CH11. No doubt, staying out of BK is better than going in, but that does not change the fact that it is too easy to declare CH11, and while in CH11, the advantages you get are too much.
 
Dilligas said:
We pride ourselves on Narcissism over here, sista. :D
Hey, another member of the Narcissistic Survivor's Club! :up:

A word to the wise though... be careful not to directly call anyone here a "N" (no matter how obvious the symptoms) because the moderators might give you a warning for not being politically correct! :p

767jetz.

{hi fly!}