US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Barrister]

No DFR, No injunction, Whole new case start raising money.

Time to come to the table. Emphasis on the word TIME. We have it ........ you don't.
IMHO NIC still lives but ....again....that word TIME. Someone please call George and ask
him if he would like a do over!!! If Parker doesn't come to the table and the West
doesn't come to the table.....then who is being an idiot!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[Crzipilot]

Time to come to the table. Emphasis on the word TIME. We have it ........ you don't.
IMHO NIC still lives but ....again....that word TIME. Someone please call George and ask
him if he would like a do over!!! If Parker doesn't come to the table and the West
doesn't come to the table.....then who is being an idiot!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

I would say the west guys have a choice. Start raising some more money, to file a suit if and whenever there is a contract in place with seniority list they don't like. Or maybe, take the group that was in charge of the lawsuit, and sit down with USAPA to come to terms of an agreement that the two sides can agree on???? I don't know. either way....the East definitely has TIME on their side now.......

Now who wants to put odds on the outcome of LOA 93 grievance?

 

[Barrister]

Don't celebrate too quickly. Your new Union "USAPA" victory party has netted you nothing. No contract. No DOH. No Pay Raise.

Ripeness is just a matter of time. How much time do you have before 65? 62.5? or worse, you cannot hold a medical? USAPA is failing you daily and will continue to do so.

You already lost based on the DFR. Now sent back for ripeness. Just push the knife in a little (DFR) and find yourself back in this mess.

IOW, Dont cash YOUR Lottery ticket, Usapa. Binding Arbitration. You Agreed to it.

Sir, we have become quite comfortable with "nothing:. NIC was/is the ultimate "Nothing" for us. A point missed by you all.

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[Coach Cabin]

USAPA NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!

The Ninth Circuit has ruled in USAPA’s favor in the Addington case on ripeness grounds. The case has been remanded to Judge Wake with instructions to dismiss the case. The ruling is being reviewed by Legal now; more information will follow.

Does USAPA negotiate a Nic contract now or do they negotiate a DOH contract (which is a slam dunk DFR with Bradford, et al testifying next time?)

Answer: Contract using Nicolau.

 

[Mtnman928]

Does USAPA negotiate a Nic contract now or do they negotiate a DOH contract (which is a slam dunk DFR with Bradford, et al testifying next time?)

Answer: Contract using Nicolau.

One word. FENCES!

MM

 

[Metroyet]

From the Ruling:

By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain
in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members
— both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe
DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.

USAPA "won" nothing. Same old stalemate that was going to occur either way.

 

[hp_fa]

I need to spend a few hours reading. The Addington plaintiffs, IMO, will likely file for an en banc reconsideration by the 9th. Needless to say I did not think this would happen, but I need to read all of it slowly to say anything more.

 

[AWE Dog]

USAPA should sue for legal fees and court costs for a suit that was not ripe.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Mike Cleary is old news.

Something a little more interesting. The waste of money MDA suit is dead.

The plaintiffs (MDA) were ordered to file on the defendants (ALPA) opposition papers by June 2, 2010. Today is June 3, 2010 but no papers filed. I guess they decided to drop the suit or could not afford to file. Either way they missed the deadline.

So much for the dream of $175,000,000.00. Because we know this suit was not going to change the Nicolau award.

I will be fun to watch the scramble for the next straw to grab to avoid the Nicolau and a contract.

Okay.....something more interesting.

How's this:

USAPA NEWS FLASH



The Ninth Circuit has ruled in USAPA’s favor in the Addington case on ripeness grounds. The case has been remanded to Judge Wake with instructions to dismiss the case. The ruling is being reviewed by Legal now; more information will follow.

 

[luvthe9]

Hey, Just heard the news I think we all need to congratulate the leadership of USAPA for such a fine job (even thought it was a no brainer win). I will get a little more enjoyment walking the terminal and seeing all the westies with their little gold, silver and bronze backers, it's ashame they were led down the wrong path all that wasted money, USAPA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!

 

[Freebird]

Since most of you wont read the decision, here's is a small excerpt to ponder.

Judge Bybee, Dissenting:

Here,
the absence of a CBA is itself powerful evidence of a DFR
violation. As set forth quite fairly in the majority opinion and
in a lengthy and careful opinion by the district court, the Air
Line Pilots Association (“ALPA”) was decertified and a new
union, the U.S. Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”), certified
precisely to frustrate implementation of the Nicolau
Agreement and to negotiate a CBA with U.S. Airways that
favors the East Pilots. As the district court found, “USAPA’s
sole objective in adopting and presenting its seniority proposal
to the Airline was to benefit East Pilots at the expense
of West Pilots, rather than to benefit the bargaining union as
a whole.”

Thus, “the terms of USAPA’s seniority proposal are
substantially less favorable to West Pilots than the Nicolau
Award” made through binding arbitration, an award that
“USAPA concedes that it will never bargain for.” It has been
nearly five years since the two airlines merged, and the pilots
are further from, not closer to, a CBA that reflects the interests
of both pilot groups.

Although a CBA would supply tangible
evidence of a violation of the DFR, in this case, there
is sufficient evidence to consider the West Pilots’ complaint
without the CBA. The issues are concrete and were well
ADDINGTON v. US AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOC. 8015
Case: 09-16564 06/04/2010 Page: 18 of 26 ID: 7359802 DktEntry: 46-1
developed in district court proceedings that included a jury
trial (for damages) and a bench trial (for equitable relief). I
would hold the case is ripe for decision and decide the appeal
on the merits.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Don't celebrate too quickly. Your new Union "USAPA" victory party has netted you nothing. No contract. No DOH. No Pay Raise.

Don't really need a new contract if the arbitrator rules in our favor over the LOA 93 pay freeze expiration. We...I mean the east....will be comfortably at industry standard.

Domino one down.

How's that damages trial looking today?

 

[GuntherA320]

USAPA should sue for legal fees and court costs for a suit that was not ripe.

I am sure USAPA will file to recoup legal fees.

 

[Crzipilot]

I disagree we won nothing. If anything we won time. Which in of itself can be quite a wealthy addition. As I said previously, if LOA 93 is won. Our retirements kick in soon, and everyone on the east will raise with that tide. Reserves become Line holders, Line Holders become captains, AND the Sr captains get a pay raise with LOA 93 to make a few more sheckles (more than they would from parity with west contract) before they retire.

I believe everyone on the east has managed to adjusted to the low income that we currently experience, would we like more, sure, but everyone has adjusted to live within what we make. If LOA 93 is won, (which we should know in 3 months or so) why would we vote in a contract with NIC???

Now the west, would be looking at our increased pay scales, and wanting parity. Of course they want NIC with that higher pay scale, but I can guarantee that isn't happening. Time for them to agree to something both sides can live with.

Not to mention, how much did it cost the west to fight this battle that has basically been thrown out and told to REDO it when the time is right, and not until then? Can you guys raise that cash again? How much of a % pay cut is it, contributing to that legal fund?

How much do you guys still owe your lawyer??? Especially now USAPA isn't on the hook for your legal expenses, and much more so, any of those damages you guys have been salvating over the past few months??? What was that number I heard 500,000??? Hope you didn't buy that boat/plane/house/girlfriend yet.....

 

[Barrister]

Does USAPA negotiate a Nic contract now or do they negotiate a DOH contract (which is a slam dunk DFR with Bradford, et al testifying next time?)

Answer: Contract using Nicolau.

Real Answer: The company is now LEGALLY able to negotiate with USAPA any list USAPA chooses
to use in accordance with their CONSTITUTION and by-laws. Guess what....it ain't the NIC.
What are you not getting??. As long as Parker and U are not on the hook legally to anyone "harmed"
by not using NIC, then he will accept whatever list USAPA gives him. In fact he already has the USAPA list.
Section 22 is closed. Know what I mean. You still have your DFR suit 2-3 years from now when a bid
comes out that doesn't use NIC and another 1-2 years to get it heard and another 6-8 months to get a ruling.
And guess what....the next trial will not be held in PHX....bet you didn't know that did you!!.
In the mean time 600 east F/Os have moved up and 40 West guys have moved up.
This is the perfect out for Parker to move this train along.........
NOW will he put enough money on the table that the pilots will vote for.

DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH.

VNIIMN
NPJB