US Pilots labor thread 4/17-

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Edward

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Watching your posts.
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It's time for a new thread. Do NOT post here until you read & understand the board rules. Do not make it personal. We've got folks on suspension now & there's room for more.

Off topic posts which violate board rules will be removed with out comment.
 

cleardirect

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May 24, 2008
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Man you can smell the desperation from usapa. These answers are just unbelievable. I think they are starting to understand that a federal injunction actually means something.

USAPA Legal Update

posted April 15th, 2010
As a result of the length of time it is taking the Ninth Circuit to decide the merits of USAPA’s expedited appeal, the refusal of the District Court to grant a stay of its injunction while the appeal is pending, the deferral of the motion to stay made to the Ninth Circuit, coupled with recent media reports of a potential merger between US Airways and United Airlines, attorneys for the Association yesterday, April 14, 2010, filed a renewed motion to stay the injunction with the Ninth Circuit.

Acting on wide spread news reports that made public an expectation of imminent developments, the Association filed its motion on an emergency basis.

No other developments in either the district court or the court of appeals has occurred, and the grant or denial of the Association’s motion is expected to have no impact on the merits of the pending appeal.
The motion will be posted shortly on the USAPA web site in the Legal Library.

USAPA Offers Further Clarification on Addington Legal Update

Yesterday we issued a Legal Update on the filing of a renewed motion with the Ninth Circuit to stay Judge Wake's injunction in the Addington case. Several members have requested clarification, so we've put together a Q&A to answer your questions.

Q. What does this mean for me?
A. It is more of the same; that is, we are just asking the court to do what we have already asked the district court and the Ninth Circuit Court to do before. Judge Wake refused, and the Ninth 'shelved' it. We are asking for a stay for the same reason we asked previously: because we should not have to comply with an injunction while we wait for the Ninth to rule that it should never have been issued.
I guess in usapa land being found liable carries no penalty.

Q. Yeah, but why file now? How is this an emergency?
A. By engaging in merger talks (as was reported in the media), the Company gave us an opportunity to file an emergency motion. Even if we had not done that, we'd still want to get out from under the injunction so that we are free to negotiate when and if the union has to engage the Company in a big way.
You mean a federal judge does have control over a union?

Q. What do we get if we win?
A. USAPA gets to operate without the constant fear that it could be hauled into court and slammed with sanctions for contempt of violating the injunction. The freer the union is, the better it can do its job.
But if the union is complying with the injunction why would the be afraid of going to court. If you are not doing anything wrong why worry. Maybe they know that they are violating the injunction.

Q. Wait a minute, Judge Wake just stayed this in February, didn't he?
A. Only the damages part, not the injunction. And even that was conditional. Our point in going to the Ninth Circuit Court is to take away any power Judge Wake has to hurt the union.
I am sure that judge Wake is going to love to hear that.

Q. What if we lose this?
A. We are no worse than before – we still have to wait for the Ninth.

Q. Is there some other reason we are doing this?
A. The reasons are accurately stated in the motion, but our lawyers might be thinking this also a way to prod the Ninth to give us our ruling, which we were all hoping we'd have by now.
 

CallawayGolf

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Q. Yeah, but why file now? How is this an emergency?
A. By engaging in merger talks (as was reported in the media), the Company gave us an opportunity to file an emergency motion. Even if we had not done that, we'd still want to get out from under the injunction so that we are free to negotiate when and if the union has to engage the Company in a big way.

So USAPA is unable to negotiate with the injunction in place? Seems to me USAPA is not only free to negotiate but is fully expected to negotiate in good faith using the NIC - isn't that what the injunction requires? So they are openly admitting again that they are in violation of federal law? Brilliant! I'm sure the 9th is most impressed with Seham and USAPA.
 
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hp_fa

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The first thought that comes to my mind when I read the USAPA motion and the explanations in the Q & A is what is called abuse of process. Filing an emergency motion with an appellate court in order to try and speed up a decision in a previously submitted case is wrong. It is also consistent with Seham's tactics throughout this case. He seemingly has no respect for courts, judges or anything else that doesn't conform to his view of the law.

This motion also gave Seham another chance to bill USAPA essentially for providing reported news items to judges. Don't many people, such as judges, already get newspapers and watch TV news?
 
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veritasaequitas

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So USAPA is unable to negotiate with the injunction in place? Seems to me USAPA is not only free to negotiate but is fully expected to negotiate in good faith using the NIC - isn't that what the injunction requires? So they are openly admitting again that they are in violation of federal law? Brilliant! I'm sure the 9th is most impressed with Seham and USAPA.

"Scott Kirby, President of US Airways, speaking to a
group of its pilots in Phoenix on May 27, 2009, commented directly on this appeal.
The airline’s President noted that the pilot negotiating process “can’t finish until
you get all the way through the appeal” and that it was “unlikely” that any
agreement could be reached or if reached would not likely get ratified. (Ex. D, at ¶"
 

CallawayGolf

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"Scott Kirby, President of US Airways, speaking to a
group of its pilots in Phoenix on May 27, 2009, commented directly on this appeal.
The airline’s President noted that the pilot negotiating process “can’t finish until
you get all the way through the appeal” and that it was “unlikely” that any
agreement could be reached or if reached would not likely get ratified. (Ex. D, at ¶"
If USAPA was willing to negotiate I'm sure Management/Kirby would engage and that he would like to see a combined CBA. Kirby knows USAPA is not going to just start negotiating for the NIC which likely explains why he made this statement. Management isn't restricted from negotiating by the appeal but they know USAPA will delay and avoid a new CBA so what's he point. Kirby was just being pragmatic, not offering a legal opinion.
 

nic4us

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Q. What do we get if we win?
A. USAPA gets to operate without the constant fear that it could be hauled into court and slammed with sanctions for contempt of violating the injunction. The freer the union is, the better it can do its job.


Here is a correction for you usapa.

You will be in fear of being hauled into court and slammed with sanctions as long as your motive is to harm the West and/or try to evade the Nicolau award, which apparently is still your objective.

The union's job is to represent all members. usapa will never be free to disregard the Nic and impose its own version of a seniority list integration. usapa's continued attempts at doing so will be its demise. But you have been told that since your inception and disregarded the advice from every legal opinion except your little lawyer's.

PS. Happy second aniversary usapa, you are still guilty of a failure of your DFR.

PSS. After the 9th upholds, Wake is going to enlighten you on the financial consequences of breaking contracts.
 
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veritasaequitas

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Feb 15, 2010
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If USAPA was willing to negotiate I'm sure Management/Kirby would engage and that he would like to see a combined CBA. Kirby knows USAPA is not going to just start negotiating for the NIC which likely explains why he made this statement. Management isn't restricted from negotiating by the appeal but they know USAPA will delay and avoid a new CBA so what's he point. Kirby was just being pragmatic, not offering a legal opinion.

Mr Kirbys quote does not require interpretation.

"The airline’s President noted that the pilot negotiating process “can’t finish until
you get all the way through the appeal”.

Quote from the motion below,

"In short, a stay is necessary to maintain the status quo and avoid irreparable
harm, because without it pilot collective bargaining at a major airline is
irretrievably paralyzed for the duration of the appeal."
 

BoeingBoy

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Nov 9, 2003
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Mr Kirbys quote does not require interpretation.

So USAPA then proceeds to interpret it...

"In short, a stay is necessary to maintain the status quo and avoid irreparable
harm, because without it pilot collective bargaining at a major airline is
irretrievably paralyzed for the duration of the appeal."

Kirby was just stating the obvious - USAPA wasn't going to negotiate a CBA containing the Nic unless and until they were forced to by the courts. Andhe was right since that's all this "Emergency filing" says.

Jim
 
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nic4us

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"In short, a stay is necessary to maintain the status quo and avoid irreparable
harm, because without it pilot collective bargaining at a major airline is
irretrievably paralyzed for the duration of the appeal."

There is a quick fix here.

usapa could simply drop the appeal, conform to the injunction, live up to its obligations, and then there would be no irreparable harm or paralyzed collective bargaining.

But that ain't what is going on. usapa wishes to continue to violate West pilot's rights, and fail them in their DFR. usapa is hoping for a remand on a technicality, and if they get it, it will slow down the process not speed it up.

You are not fooling anyone usapa. Your attempted theft is coming to an end, and so are you.
 
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ChuckBewFarley

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Jul 31, 2007
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These questions beg to be asked-

If usapa does get their injunction and they do get to use 3 lists in a merger who will represent the west pilots? The East pilots filed and got single carrier status 3 years ago, then created a new 'union' to 'represent' all pilots at US Airways. Now it seem the leadership only wants to represent the east group and not the west group. The CBA (which collects all the $$) controls all $$. How does the west represent it's self and how do we get the funding???

Do we get moving expenses, cars and FPL? Do we get to select our own legal team? Thanks but we don't trust the one you have.
 

OTTER574

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Jan 11, 2009
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Thank's go out to usapa's president mike cleary, vice president randy mowrey and a very special thank's to lead council lee seham/ssm&p.

You make our job on the west sooooooooooo much easier.

Again,

Thank You.
 
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TheBadCat1313

Member
Oct 5, 2009
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"Scott Kirby, President of US Airways, speaking to a
group of its pilots in Phoenix on May 27, 2009, commented directly on this appeal.
The airline’s President noted that the pilot negotiating process “can’t finish until
you get all the way through the appeal” and that it was “unlikely” that any
agreement could be reached or if reached would not likely get ratified. (Ex. D, at ¶"

Ole Scotty may feel very differently about this now than he did a year ago. Anyway, he was only saying what would enable management to keep the pilots divided as long as possible to save tons of money. Now, this divide is an impediment to consolidation.
 

HPDriver

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Jun 27, 2009
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Now, this divide is an impediment to consolidation.
Says who?

Why do you think USAPA asked the Appellate Court to hurry their decision? Because Cleary knows this merger is going to happen with or without USAPA.

When Parker lays the Delta contract on the table, the east pilots will trip over themselves trying to vote it onto property.

Impediment? Please. All it takes is a little cash and that "impediment" will disappear overnight.
 
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