Venezuela may kick US Rep out

[Bob Owens]

I saw in the News that Venezuala may ask the US envoy to leave. It seems that Chavez feels that the phone company should belong to the people of Venezuela. The US envoy rufled feathers when it was reported: "The top American envoy to Venezuela told Caracas' Union Radio the planned takeover of CA Nacional de Telefonos, or CANTV, should proceed "in a transparent, legal manner" and that Venezuela's government must offer "fair and quick compensation to the people who are affected or the owners."


Hmmm. Maybe Chavez should take a page out of US law and declare the company bankrupt, making the stock worthless or like AA threaten to declare the company bankrupt,giving them pennies on the dollar, then instead of forcing the workers to work for less under a court injunction force the phone companies creditors to continue to supply the phone company with what it needs.

Its no wonder that so many people get angry at the US. What a hypocrite to demand that the stockholders (Americans)be made whole when here in the USA companies with hundreds of millions of dollars in cash declare themselves bankrupt, cheat their emplyees and the stockholders alike and come out richer than ever before. I didnt hear any US politicians declare that the stockholders of UAL-which was employee owned, NWA, Delta or USAIR be made whole or given "fair and quick compensation".These people saw their stock become worthless and in the case of UAL then watch them issue new stock at $30/share!!!

 

[Hopeful]

I saw in the News that Venezuala may ask the US envoy to leave. It seems that Chavez feels that the phone company should belong to the people of Venezuela. The US envoy rufled feathers when it was reported: "The top American envoy to Venezuela told Caracas' Union Radio the planned takeover of CA Nacional de Telefonos, or CANTV, should proceed "in a transparent, legal manner" and that Venezuela's government must offer "fair and quick compensation to the people who are affected or the owners."
Hmmm. Maybe Chavez should take a page out of US law and declare the company bankrupt, making the stock worthless or like AA threaten to declare the company bankrupt,giving them pennies on the dollar, then instead of forcing the workers to work for less under a court injunction force the phone companies creditors to continue to supply the phone company with what it needs.

Its no wonder that so many people get angry at the US. What a hypocrite to demand that the stockholders (Americans)be made whole when here in the USA companies with hundreds of millions of dollars in cash declare themselves bankrupt, cheat their emplyees and the stockholders alike and come out richer than ever before. I didnt hear any US politicians declare that the stockholders of UAL-which was employee owned, NWA, Delta or USAIR be made whole or given "fair and quick compensation".These people saw their stock become worthless and in the case of UAL then watch them issue new stock at $30/share!!!

Uh oh! Here it comes! Bob Owens and his socialistic flair!

 

[Ed Norton]

Why is Hugo Chavez so demonized by the corporate/CIA controlled American press? After all he was democratically elected. Aren't we fighting in Iraq to bring "democracy" to the Iraqi people?
Hugo Chavez's biggest transgretion is that he tries to stick it to American Corporate Empire and the Bush crime family every chance he gets. He nationalized the Venezuelan oil industry, which allowed Venezuela to keep the proceeds from Venezuelan oil, instead of the 15% under U.S. corporate control. What is Hugo doing with all this new found wealth? Building new roads; housing and vaccination programs for the poor of his country. Then there's that pesky free heating oil for poor American families. He is also using his wealth to help other South American countries repay their IMF debt. One example being Ecuador.In 2005 the country of Ecuador was in a bind. It could not repay its IMF debt. The World Bank, under Paul Wolfowitz refused any accomodations. Ecuador's new president refused to pay and Ecuador was facing boycott of its bonds. Enter Hugo Chavez, who wrote a check for $200 million to buy up Ecuador's bonds and restore its credit. That's a big no, no in the eyes of the World Bank. Before we condemn Ecuador as a dead beat country, we must look at the International Monetary Fund. On the surface the IMF seems like a way to help poor countries develop. What the IMF does is lend money to corrupt foreign governments who divy up the a large portion of the funds among the ruling families and corrupt politicians. This money ensures a "friendly" country which will allow exploitation of its national resources, pollution and destruction of its environment by U.S. corporate interests. IMF loans come with stipulations that the funds be used for agrarian reform , hydroelectric projects, roads, etc. which often displace entire villages and towns and flood arrigable land. There is also further stipulation that the projects be done by foreign (usually U.S.)companies. The reality of the World Bank and the IMF is that money tricles down to the the wealthy and the people who need it get nothing.
Chavez was also key in derailing the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) and declared the FTAA dead. The FTAA is NAFTA and North American Union, spread through out the American hemisphere.
So plainly, Hugo Chavez is a thorn in the side of globalization and of the Fascist Corporate American Empire. The U.S. tried to take him out once already in 2002. Now that he has been reelected, lets see how long before the Bush administration finds Alqaeda (Al-CIA-da) training camps and WMDs in the Orinoco basin and Hogo Chavez is taken out for good :down:

 

[Barfbag]

 

[FWAAA]

I'm thoroughly confused by Mr Owens post.

In one case, a duly "elected" dictator is threatening to nationalize a telephone company; government stealing it from the private owners. Not unlike what happens in communist countries. I think Castro nationalized some Cuban industries as well when he took over.

In the other case, crappy management at several airlines including USAir (twice), UAL, DAL, NWA, and CO (twice but not recently) resulted in bankruptcy. Sadly, stockholders lost everything in those bankruptcies.

Is Mr Owens applauding the dictator's actions? Or merely criticizing the US diplomats for their criticism of the dictator?

I don't see how strongman dictator theft is equivalent in any way to airline mismanagement. Color me confused.

 

[Ed Norton]

Pretty clever cartoon. And..? Bush isa drunken dictator, genocidal devil!

 

[commavia]

Why is Hugo Chavez so demonized by the corporate/CIA controlled American press? After all he was democratically elected. Aren't we fighting in Iraq to bring "democracy" to the Iraqi people?
Hugo Chavez's biggest transgretion is that he tries to stick it to American Corporate Empire and the Bush crime family every chance he gets. He nationalized the Venezuelan oil industry, which allowed Venezuela to keep the proceeds from Venezuelan oil, instead of the 15% under U.S. corporate control. What is Hugo doing with all this new found wealth? Building new roads; housing and vaccination programs for the poor of his country. Then there's that pesky free heating oil for poor American families. He is also using his wealth to help other South American countries repay their IMF debt. One example being Ecuador.In 2005 the country of Ecuador was in a bind. It could not repay its IMF debt. The World Bank, under Paul Wolfowitz refused any accomodations. Ecuador's new president refused to pay and Ecuador was facing boycott of its bonds. Enter Hugo Chavez, who wrote a check for $200 million to buy up Ecuador's bonds and restore its credit. That's a big no, no in the eyes of the World Bank. Before we condemn Ecuador as a dead beat country, we must look at the International Monetary Fund. On the surface the IMF seems like a way to help poor countries develop. What the IMF does is lend money to corrupt foreign governments who divy up the a large portion of the funds among the ruling families and corrupt politicians. This money ensures a "friendly" country which will allow exploitation of its national resources, pollution and destruction of its environment by U.S. corporate interests. IMF loans come with stipulations that the funds be used for agrarian reform , hydroelectric projects, roads, etc. which often displace entire villages and towns and flood arrigable land. There is also further stipulation that the projects be done by foreign (usually U.S.)companies. The reality of the World Bank and the IMF is that money tricles down to the the wealthy and the people who need it get nothing.
Chavez was also key in derailing the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) and declared the FTAA dead. The FTAA is NAFTA and North American Union, spread through out the American hemisphere.
So plainly, Hugo Chavez is a thorn in the side of globalization and of the Fascist Corporate American Empire. The U.S. tried to take him out once already in 2002. Now that he has been reelected, lets see how long before the Bush administration finds Alqaeda (Al-CIA-da) training camps and WMDs in the Orinoco basin and Hogo Chavez is taken out for good :down:

Hugo Chavez a "thorn in the side of the globalization and of the Fascist Corporate American Empire."

Man you can write this stuff but you can't make it up!

Hugo Chavez is just like Fidel before him, or Stalin before him, or Lenin before him. He is a bully, a thug, and a socialist-communist dictator.

Sure, he was "elected" democratically the first time, but so was Saddam. And that, of course, doesn't excuse his complete and total reckless regard for the rule of law since he was elected. I'm of course speaking about his setting aside the Venezuelan constitution, rewriting laws, ignoring the also-democratically-elected Venezuelan legislature, deciding that all of a sudden Venezuelan presidents should be allowed to rule forever, and now deciding that they should be allowed to rule by decree, with absolutely no regard for the legislative process. You call that democracy?

Secondly, if things in the U.S. (you know, where the neo-Hitler Bush, and the "corporate/CIA controlled American press" are) are so horrible, and the socialist utopia that baby Hugo has built in Venezuela is so great (what with all the new roads, schools, vaccines, and such), then lets examine where the movement of capital and labor has been over the last ten years, shall we? I quote from an excellent article: "In 2005, over 10,000 Venezuelans sought permanent residence in the U.S., more than twice as many as who sought admission to the U.S. in 1999, when Chavez first took office." Further, "Venezuelan immigration to the U.S. has gone up more than 5,000% since 2000."

Venezuelans, just like most people, are hardly stupid, especially when it comes to their survival or the survival of their families. And obviously, if thousands of them each year are streaming into the U.S. and out of Hugoville, surely there must be some trouble in paradise. Chavez has systematically killed foreign investment in his country, is driving away all of the smart, educated, motivated Venezuelans who aren't already in the upper echelons of his military junta, and he is destroying economic liberty and opportunity for his own people. Once again, you can think I'm just a fascist apologist, Nazi sympathizer, or worst of all, a Republican, but the foot traffic alone between our country and theirs seems to speak for itself.

 

[KCFlyer]

Hugo Chavez a "thorn in the side of the globalization and of the Fascist Corporate American Empire."

Man you can write this stuff but you can't make it up!

Hugo Chavez is just like Fidel before him, or Stalin before him, or Lenin before him. He is a bully, a thug, and a socialist-communist dictator.

Sure, he was "elected" democratically the first time, but so was Saddam. And that, of course, doesn't excuse his complete and total reckless regard for the rule of law since he was elected. I'm of course speaking about his setting aside the Venezuelan constitution, rewriting laws, ignoring the also-democratically-elected Venezuelan legislature, deciding that all of a sudden Venezuelan presidents should be allowed to rule forever, and now deciding that they should be allowed to rule by decree, with absolute no regard for the legislative process. You callthat democracy?

Secondly, if things in the U.S. (you know, where the neo-Hitler Bush, and the "corporate/CIA controlled American press" are) are so horrible, and the socialist utopia that baby Hugo has built in Venezuela is so great (what with all the new roads, schools, vaccines, and such), then lets examine where the movement of capital and labor has been over the last ten years, shall we? I quote from an excellent article: "In 2005, over 10,000 Venezuelans sought permanent residence in the U.S., more than twice as many as who sought admission to the U.S. in 1999, when Chavez first took office." Further, "Venezuelan immigration to the U.S. has gone up more than 5,000% since 2000."

Venezuelans, just like most people, are hardly stupid, especially when it comes to their survival or the survival of their families. And obviously, if thousands of them each year are streaming into the U.S. and out of Hugoville, surely there must be some trouble in paradise. Chavez has systematically killed foreign investment in his country, is driving away all of the smart, educated, motivated Venezuelans who aren't already in the upper echelons of his military junta, and he is destroying economic liberty and opportunity for his own people. Once again, you can think I'm just a fascist apologist, Nazi sympathizer, or worst of all, a Republican, but the foot traffic alone between our country and theirs seems to speak for itself.

So let me get this straight...a democratically elected president is a good thing unless the US doesn't approve of him.

 

[commavia]

So let me get this straight...a democratically elected president is a good thing unless the US doesn't approve of him.

No, a democratically elected president is always a good thing, whether the U.S. likes them or not. That is, of course, as long as they don't take away their people's rights, shut down press that criticizes them, and set aside the constitution and install themself as a dictator who can rule by decree and ignore the legislature.

Personally, that's usually where I draw the line.

 

[local 12 proud]

No, a democratically elected president is always a good thing, whether the U.S. likes them or not. That is, of course, as long as they don't take away their people's rights, shut down press that criticizes them, and set aside the constitution and install themself as a dictator who can rule by decree and ignore the legislature.

Personally, that's usually where I draw the line.

Yes, but he hates the current US Administration and in fact calls our President
'El Diablo' so in the view of most liberals Chavez is a hero. :huh:

 

[Hopeful]

Norton,
I am going to give you advice that AA management gives to us when they tell us if we don't like it at American, then there's the door.

Maybe you should think about moving to Venezuela and put on the red shirt, pants and shoes like PIMP CHAVEZ!

Maybe you want to have your land taken away from you in the name of socialism..


There's the door, don't forget to leave your US Citizenship behind.

 

[Ed Norton]

Hugo Chavez a "thorn in the side of the globalization and of the Fascist Corporate American Empire."

Man you can write this stuff but you can't make it up!

Hugo Chavez is just like Fidel before him, or Stalin before him, or Lenin before him. He is a bully, a thug, and a socialist-communist dictator....

Hugo Chavez is not perfect by far and there are things that he does that I wonder about. Aside from labeling Mr. Chavez, you did not show me where I am wrong.
You must understand politics in latin America and the real reasons why historically there has been political instability through out the region. What it boils down to is U.S. Imperialism.
Back in 1898 the U.S. blew up its own battle ship, the U.S.S. Maine in Havana Harbor as a pretext to start a war with the waning Spanish Empire. Of course the U.S. was victorious and we gained control of former Spanish colonies (The Phillipines, Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc) and the way was paved for U.S. corporate interests to exploit the natural resources of the newly "liberated" lands. With Spain gone, the U.S. was able to wield its influence throgh out Latin America with the "Big Stick" and "Gun Boat Diplomacy." Before 1898 we were a nation, after 1898 we became an empire. As is the case today, anyone who opposed this empire was labeled a subversive. The U.S. Marines were sent numerous times to Central America to quell populist uprisings. The story has been the same through out all of Latin America. The U.S. wants a canal built across the Colombian state of Panama but it is opposed by the Colombian government. No problem, we just bankroll a Panamanian independence movement, and presto, we get a canal. Whenever Latin American leader doesn't agree with the Yanqui Imperialistas, he is demonized in the press, labeled a "communist/socialist" and then quickly replaced. A few examples: Salvador Allende, (Chile), ousted by a CIA backed coup. Died in bombing of presidential palace, replaced by our butcher, Augusto Pinochet. Omar Torrijos {Panama)-died after the Twin Otter he was in blew up in mid air. Jaime Roldos Aguilera (Ecuador)-died in an airplane "crash."
Fulgencio Batista (Cuba)-outlived his usefulness and allowed to flee Cuba before the U.S. installed Castro. Castro then turned on the U.S. and announced to the world that he was a Marxist. Anastacio Somoza Debayle-U.S. supported Nicaraguan dictator who outlived his usefulness. Gunned down in Paraguay by a hit team a few months after being ousted. He was replaced by Sandinista Daniel Ortega; because we needed bad guy to demonize so we could justify all the military spending an shady CIA operations in Central America. Manuel Noriega started skimming off the top of the CIA drug running operation that ran through Panama so he had to go too. The U.S. launched Operation Just Cause (more like Just Because) and threw Manuel in a Florida jail cell.
Over a century of U.S. political, military and economic meddling, free market bull shite,IMF loans which only serve to further enrich the ruling elite, Peace Corps condesention and missionaries has finally taken its toll. The people of Latin America are tired of the status quo and want a change. They see that change in the election of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, Evo Morales in Bolivia and Rafael Correa in Ecuador. These three are mestizos(white Spanish and indian). Before Hugo Chavez there had been no Mestizo president in South America, let alone three. This reflects the empowerment of the indegineous people of the region. By the way, I'm sure all the new wave Venezuelan "refugees" are having a good time clubbing and spending their money in South Beach.

Norton,
I am going to give you advice that AA management gives to us when they tell us if we don't like it at American, then there's the door.

Maybe you should think about moving to Venezuela and put on the red shirt, pants and shoes like PIMP CHAVEZ!

Maybe you want to have your land taken away from you in the name of socialism..
There's the door, don't forget to leave your US Citizenship behind.

You sound like a TWU punk. My reply to you is kiss my arse. I believe in the American Republic, not the American Empire. :down:

 

[commavia]

Hugo Chavez is not perfect by far and there are things that he does that I wonder about.

Well, I’m glad to hear that … big weight off my shoulders.

Aside from labeling Mr. Chavez, you did not show me where I am wrong.

Well, if you mean besides showing you that Chavez is hardly a model of democracy, is killing his nation’s economy and driving his people further into poverty while enriching the lives of himself, his close circle of junta elites, and his commie buddies throughout the region, then I guess this was all for not. Too bad, as I’ve enjoyed this little discussion a lot.

You must understand politics in latin America and the real reasons why historically there has been political instability through out the region. What it boils down to is U.S. Imperialism.

Of course, it’s always America’s fault. Makes sense.

As is the case today, anyone who opposed this empire was labeled a subversive.

If your not too afraid of the obvious omage to “naming names†as so many seem to be so scared of today, would you care to provide us with the name of a single individual “who oppose this empire†being labeled a “subversive†by anyone of any importance today? And no, Rush Limbaugh and “that guy on that blog†don’t count as "anyone of any importance."

Whenever Latin American leader doesn't agree with the Yanqui Imperialistas, he is demonized in the press, labeled a "communist/socialist" and then quickly replaced.

Ah, too true! That whole CIA-government-press conspiracy really comes down to bare on these brave Latin American leaders when they actually are, indeed, communists and socialists, like with Hugo Chavez! I hate when that happens! Well, hey, I guess even though "Yanqui Imperialista" Bush and the Washington press corps haven’t quite patched things up over Iraq yet, at least they can all get together in the back halls of D.C. and conspire against South American despots! God Bless America.

Over a century of U.S. political, military and economic meddling, free market bull shite,IMF loans which only serve to further enrich the ruling elite, Peace Corps condesention and missionaries has finally taken its toll.

“Free market bull shite.†Once again, you can write it but you can’t make it up! Free market capitalism has done more to alleviate poverty in the world than every single government program on the face of the earth put together. That’s my $.02.

The people of Latin America are tired of the status quo and want a change.

Well, finally something we can both agree on! The thousands upon thousands of people each year that are literally risking their lives by floating on tires or seeking political asylum as they fall all over themselves to get out of Haiti, Cuba, Venezuela and other failed “socialist utopias†throughout Latin American certainly seem “tired of the status quo.†Thankfully for them, they chose to come to a country that not only rewards people for “wanting change,†but actually gives them the opportunity to do something about it.

By the way, I'm sure all the new wave Venezuelan "refugees" are having a good time clubbing and spending their money in South Beach.

Too bad all of their Venezuelan brothers and sisters who don’t have enough money to escape baby Hugo’s economic tyranny can’t get their chance to go clubbing in South Beach. So sad, so sad.

 

[Ed Norton]

Hugo Chavez is not perfect by far and there are things that he does that I wonder about.

Well, I’m glad to hear that … big weight off my shoulders.

Aside from labeling Mr. Chavez, you did not show me where I am wrong.

Well, if you mean besides showing you that Chavez is hardly a model of democracy, is killing his nation’s economy and driving his people further into poverty while enriching the lives of himself, his close circle of junta elites, and his commie buddies throughout the region, then I guess this was all for not. Too bad, as I’ve enjoyed this little discussion a lot.

You must understand politics in latin America and the real reasons why historically there has been political instability through out the region. What it boils down to is U.S. Imperialism.

Of course, it’s always America’s fault. Makes sense.

As is the case today, anyone who opposed this empire was labeled a subversive.

If your not too afraid of the obvious omage to “naming names†as so many seem to be so scared of today, would you care to provide us with the name of a single individual “who oppose this empire†being labeled a “subversive†by anyone of any importance today? And no, Rush Limbaugh and “that guy on that blog†don’t count as "anyone of any importance."

Whenever Latin American leader doesn't agree with the Yanqui Imperialistas, he is demonized in the press, labeled a "communist/socialist" and then quickly replaced.

Ah, too true! That whole CIA-government-press conspiracy really comes down to bare on these brave Latin American leaders when they actually are, indeed, communists and socialists, like with Hugo Chavez! I hate when that happens! Well, hey, I guess even though "Yanqui Imperialista" Bush and the Washington press corps haven’t quite patched things up over Iraq yet, at least they can all get together in the back halls of D.C. and conspire against South American despots! God Bless America.

Over a century of U.S. political, military and economic meddling, free market bull shite,IMF loans which only serve to further enrich the ruling elite, Peace Corps condesention and missionaries has finally taken its toll.

“Free market bull shite.†Once again, you can write it but you can’t make it up! Free market capitalism has done more to alleviate poverty in the world than every single government program on the face of the earth put together. That’s my $.02.

The people of Latin America are tired of the status quo and want a change.

Well, finally something we can both agree on! The thousands upon thousands of people each year that are literally risking their lives by floating on tires or seeking political asylum as they fall all over themselves to get out of Haiti, Cuba, Venezuela and other failed “socialist utopias†throughout Latin American certainly seem “tired of the status quo.†Thankfully for them, they chose to come to a country that not only rewards people for “wanting change,†but actually gives them the opportunity to do something about it.

By the way, I'm sure all the new wave Venezuelan "refugees" are having a good time clubbing and spending their money in South Beach.

Too bad all of their Venezuelan brothers and sisters who don’t have enough money to escape baby Hugo’s economic tyranny can’t get their chance to go clubbing in South Beach. So sad, so sad.

You fail to comprehend that those fleeing their impoverished countries are doing so because of the ecomic circumstances created by the United States government and its corporate and banking interests. Your implication that those poor ignorant Latins cannot run their own affairs is typical American arrogance, condesention and racism.
As I stated before and you conveniently ignore; the U.S. trough the World Bank and the IMF has given monetary aid to tyrants who use this money to enrich themselves and their cronies, the poor be damned! As long as these tyrants play along with Washington they continue to receive aid and are deemed friendly and good.
Before you can understand you have to shed the phony left vs. right paradigm. The same people who run Wall Street, funded the Bolshevik Revolution. The globalists who control most of the U.S. banks don't care about left or right, capitalist or "communist." They care only about making money so they fund both sides of conflict. Regardless who wins, they stand to gain. Democrat, Republican..two sides one coin and controlled by the same people.
Learn that and you will see that we are all being hoodwinked. This country is being destroyed from within. Not by Alqaeda or Osama or who ever the boogey man du jour is. It is being destroyed by globalist interest in our own government and corporations. Corporate interests own the media which control what you see in the news. Illegal aliens are crossing the border at an alarming rate and Bush does nothing. Our industrial base is gone. When was the last time you bought an appliance or a pair of shoes not made in China. Clinton gave away missile technology to China and Bush does the same. Now we have Clinton and Daddy Bush running around like"homies." They're so blatant, they shove it in your face because the average American is asleep.
Why is the government always on the side of big business? Because we live under fascism. Fascism is not about jack boots and raised arm salutes. Fascism is about the state and corporate power of a nation working together.
Attack Chavez and his Bolivarianos all you want. The truth is that you, I and all Americans are slaves of the corporate empire. The biggest slave is the one who perceives he is free.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Ed Norton,
I AGREE with you 1000%.

But allow me a moment to address my GOOD friend...Hopeful, who is FAR above, the names that you called him(He's just too darn conservative,...BUT...that is his right !!!!!)

Anyway,

"Hopeful, allow ME some lee-way, as it pertains to Chavez.
I ask this from you, because I want to SEE, if Hugo changes his demeanor, once the democrats control all 3 branches of government, come 1/20/09."

I know you'll do this favor for your ol' retired(THANK GOD) pal(Me).

Seriously, I REALLY think 90% of Chavez's "beef" is with Dumbya, and the GOP, but time will tell !!


NH/BB's