Well..just Gonna Thro It Out

Flyboy4u

Veteran
Oct 6, 2002
538
1
Hey folks. I am sharing the My feelings with you regarding the APFA Executive Committee meeting held over the past two days. Do with my comments as you will. I am thoroughly disgusted.

George Price, IDF

I have remained silent over the course of the past two years regarding what has transpired within the APFA. It is not that I did not have an opinion. The fact is, I held an official position within our union that dictated that I remain neutral. It demanded that I put out the facts through the official modes of communication of the APFA only after having it approved by the majority of the national officers in accordance with official APFA policy. Well, I don't hold a position now, and I am not going to have my voice muted out of some insane sense of loyalty to anyone.

What I witnessed today in the special APFA Executive Committee meeting was APFA Politics at its worse. For those of us who have been around a few years, it is reminiscent of the "Stu Adams-Lundy" days when the minority leadership of the APFA overthrew the majority. The Adams-Lundy case, with some of the very same players as we have today, cost this union the respect of its membership, the respect of other organized labor, the respect of the Company, and worst of all hundreds of thousands of unnecessary dollars in legal fees caused by the numerous lawsuits that arose from the minority action.

The facts behind this are that the recent national officer election was one of the closest in our history. No one, and I do mean no one, knew how tight the race would be at the end especially for the position of president. In question is whether the votes of certain Flight Attendants who faxed in membership application cards should be counted. Let's face it folks, these were former TWA Flight Attendants. I know that APFA provided the Company with a New Member Packet including an APFA Membership Application/Dues Checkoff Authorization Card for each former TWA Flight Attendant. I know because I watched the APFA staff prepare literally 4,000 of these packets, and IDF Chair Steve Watson and I delivered them to the mail center for AMR to be mailed to the former TWA Flight Attendants. Like any American Airlines Flight Attendant, they were provided with ample opportunity to sign the card and become dues paying members of the APFA shortly after APFA was deemed the bargaining agent for the TWA-LLC Flight Attendants. For whatever reason, some choose not to complete the cards until we were deeply involved in the election process. While others exercised their Constitutional right to vote and were gladly dues obligated to the APFA, others held out, did not pay their dues when the obligation started, and only stepped up to be counted when they felt the urge hit them.

It is absurd to think that APFA election complaints or internal charges brought by one member against another could be heard by the APFA Executive Committee and any member of that committee could be impartial. For example, charges brought against John Ward are heard by people on the Executive Committee who dislike him personally and frankly hate him politically. How could they possibly be impartial? In the case of the election complaints, it is a 6-3 vote against John Ward on the Executive Committee. Of those six people against John, four ran against his slate in the national officer election and two publicly supported the opposing slate. When the appeal filed by Juan Johnson, Ted Bedwell, and Linda Lanning came before this same group, they dismissed them expeditiously. When the complaint by Tommie Hutto-Blake was brought forward, they delayed proceeding nearly 24-hours, and then attempted to pass a resolution directing the APFA National Ballot Committee to open and count no less than fourteen former TWA Flight Attendant's ballots. Ballots cast by Flight Attendants who did not send in their membership card when given the opportunity nearly three years ago and only became members during the election process. Keep in mind, this is an election decided by five (5) votes. Don't think for one minute that the counting of these votes would not change the outcome of the election for position of president of the APFA. It most certainly would considering the fact that an overwhelming majority (nearly 2,100) of former TWA Flight Attendants voted for Tommie Hutto-Blake. Fortunately, APFA President John Ward had to leave after waiting for the Executive Committee meeting to convene today in order to participate in our Washington, D.C. lobby event on May 12th. Cheryl Walters and Ted Bedwell participated in the debate over the resolution and then left the meeting when the resolution was called to question. This denied the quorum ending the meeting without a vote on the resolution.

As an APFA member in good standing for nearly twenty years now, I thought I had seen it all. I was wrong. I am witnessing history repeating itself- a disgruntled minority who refuses to accept the will of the membership. A minority who believes that they are better than the membership and know more than we do. A minority that seems dead set on putting in who they want in leadership roles and fulfilling some type of pre-set agenda.

In reality, any and all election complaints should be deferred by such a politically charged group as the APFA to an independent agency including the Department of Labor Management Standards. APFA Representatives should never be involved in deciding the outcome of charges or election complaints that they themselves are a party to or have a vested interest in. The APFA system is broken. Before our democratic voices are muted any further, the system must be fixed. Those in power must recognize the shortcomings of our governing documents and policies before we find ourselves draining the entire APFA Treasury to resolve conflicts, once again, in court or through arbitrations.

For now, I encourage all APFA members to make their voices known on this issue. Call or e-mail your base representatives. Their numbers can be found on the APFA Web site and in Skyword. Call or e-mail members of the Executive Committee. They are Mario St. Michel, Lenny Aurigemma, Steve Ellis, Cheryl Walters, Ted Bedwell, Brett Durkin, Cathy Lukensmeyer, Greg Hildreth, and John Ward. Their numbers can also be found on the APFA Web site. Tell them that only the Department of Labor should decide the outcome of the election complaints in this and other cases. If this election is to be overturned, it should only be done by the United States Department of Labor and no one else.


It is way past time for the APFA membership to say enough is enough! Everything we have struggled to become as a union and all of the respect we have been able to obtain through our incredible actions over the past eleven years is at stake. The years of public internal fighting should be left in the past. Most of us have moved past that for the good of our union and our membership. It is time that those who have personal agendas, that refuse to move past the quest for power and personal vendettas, move on.

George Price, IDF
 
APFA is sounding more and more broke and cannot be fixed every day. Power struggles within appear to be a major issue. JW seems more intent on consolidating power than serving the membership. If he served the membership power would flow to him automatically. But instead with issues like taking furloughees right to vote away, he and others appear more intent on dividing and splitting APFA than trying to include members.
 
I don't know if you are George Price or just quoting George. So let me understand exactly what you wrote. These TWA F/a's had three years to decide whether they would join APFA or not. Upon the runoff election, these 14 decided in order to vote they would join. They faxed in their membership papers and voted.
My questions, when they voted were they dues current? Did they legally get their membership pledge before the vote deadline?
I just need clarification. Why would the national labor board be called in if they met legal deadlines. This would be akin to registering to vote by the deadline in national elections so you could vote for a party you were particularly passionate about. I don't mean to be dense, I just need clarificartion. You seem to be especially passionate on this matter, and I am a bit confused. Thanks for clarifying this for me.
 
Ok, I guess a few of us were posting at exactly the same time. I say let it go to the department of labor. But why wait to open those ballots if a prescidense (sp?)has been set? If faxing in membership has been allowed in the past, wshy change now? It seems to me, if this can be proven Ward, Bedwell, and even Juan whom I personally know and like, don't have a leg to stand on. What a mess...
 
Flyboy4u said:
Hey folks. I am sharing the My feelings with you regarding the APFA Executive Committee meeting held over the past two days. Do with my comments as you will. I am thoroughly disgusted.
Ed,

You should have posted some of the replies to George Price's message.

George, with all due respect, I had to call and request a membership packet from the APFA. There aren't many as involved or active in Union activities as I am (or should I say have been) and from theminute we could "apply" for membership, I was on the phone and emailsystem, and it took considerable effort on my part to receive themembership packet. There are quite a few former TWA f/as that either didn't receive the packet or were the early furloughees that obviously had other issues on their minds and either thought they had filled out membership cards or had forgotten all about the process. It doesn't matter what happened, these flight attendants were constitutionally in the right to request a membership card and ballot. The faxing in of membership cards has been accepted in prior votes and it is only because of the potential loss to JW that the rules have been changed. Sort of like changing the rules to impose a "poll tax" for furloughed members to be able to vote. I'm certain if it were only the nAAtive furloughees in question, this would all be a moot point. I'm not sure why this Union was so insistent on forcing us (the TWA f/as) to come under the "representation blanket" of the APFA. (other than to collect dues because there certainly hasn't been any representation) If the best interest of "the whole" had been thought out, the TWA f/as would have been made into a separate Local at least until the operating certificates were "one". This is about our having rallied the furloughees( and not only the TWA furloughee but ALL furloughees) to actually take 5 minutes to mark a ballot and it p---es you all off that we would DARE voice our disdain over the separatist policies of the JW administration. We were not voting for TH-B, we were voting against JW. It was our right to make that choice just as it was our right to vote NO, HELL NO on the RPA. Why are you all not concerned about the 11000 non voters. They are the members who decided this election, not the former TWA f/as. Whether you like it or not, every one of us is just as much of an APFA member and AA f/a as any one of you. You should be disgusted. There has not been one vote since the acquisition that has been honest, and untainted. That is a crime and an affront to the members that have actually taken the time to be active. The Constitution and By Laws Committee should be working on ways to "clean house" not silence active, and by active I mean participating, members..And if it wasn't for this Union, most of the furloughees would have been active as in flying. Now that truly IS disgusting.

And:

The hypocrisy that comes from George Prices post never seizes to amaze me. Ladies and gentlemen, this is nothing more than pure politics on Mr. Price's par and this is why you should have voted for the Rock Salomon slate, instead you voted for the cancer that has continually plagued this union for quite some time (in-house cat fighting). Here we have one misrepresented lie after another coming for the ex-communications coordinator.

BTW-George Price was video taping today's EC meeting and isn't it funny he never even mentions that in his post below. What's even funnier is I sat right behind George Price and I watched him nod in agreement whenever Cheryl Walters or Ted Bedwell spoke out, and when anyone else spoke, he never agreed with any of them. You see ladies and gentlemen; even George Price has a vested interest/agenda in this latest debacle.

In all truthfulness, I was saddened to see our Union, once again, divided with people who only care about themselves. That's the bottom line here.

Steve Moldolf was quoted by one of the Executive Committee Members as saying that the faxed membership cards were in fact legal documents and met the test or criteria for becoming bona-fide members. I believe there was a total of 16 ballots that are in dispute and here's the kicker, no knows how they voted because they have not been opened. There were 3 ballots that were voided because of dues arrears that should have been counted. Then there were 2 ballots that were also found that should have been counted, and there were also 11 ballots that were voided due to the determination by former treasurer Juan Johnson. The way I understood it is that she would not accept or validate the faxed copies that were sent in via fax. Again there was some confusion as to who did what as the arguments and statements went back and forth.

It was also stated that this procedure of enrollment was accepted and used during the recent RPA debacle, as well as other elections. The way I understood the facts raised, is that during the RPA fiasco, previous faxed application cards were accepted without the requirement of any hard copy application cards, and that this sort of past practice was also allowed during the first series of our National Officers race on or about January 2004.

The most hypocritical comment I heard today had to come from Ted Bedwell who said that Peter Quinn refused to provide documentation in regards to his overturned election in Boston-I, which was a lie IMO, then Ted states that today's process was a kangaroo court? Well Ted did you not steal my "thunder"; I called it a kangaroo court way before you did, especially the way our internal charges were handled by your court. You voted on issues when you were a direct party that was being charged in the allegations proceedings, that sir is a direct conflict of interest, is it not?

If John, Cheryl or Ted really cared about the membership, they would have stayed and conducted union business and they could have voted or abstained from the voting process. Lenny could have voted, Steve Ellis could have voted, Mario St. Michael could have voted and so could have Cheryl Walters. Everyone else could have removed themselves from the process and abstained from voting.

The bottom line is this; our membership will continue to suffer and will sink to lower despair because absolutely nothing was done or will ever be accomplished with a hodgepodge slate.

Linda Lanning, Ted Bedwell and Juan Johnson have all filed internal charges and I am sure as the sun rises tomorrow, they will also file a complaint with the Department of Labor.

As I watched Ted Bedwell and Cheryl Walters and Juan Johnson strategically leave the meeting in a planned choreographed manner, I quietly thought to myself, maybe the Rock Salomon slate won something after all, and as they drove away I thought isn't that great, there goes your hard Union dollars at work.

The only thing I may agree with George Price on is that history always seems to repeats itself and those that continue to ignore previous history are sure to repeat it again. Not much has changed within those infamous walls of the APFA and it is so sad...

Maybe it's time for a "New" Union?

For those who need to know, the first reply is by a TWAer and the second by a nAAtive.
 
TWAnr
Where did those posts come from? Are they from they APFA website? I can't locate the forums on there any longer or if it is another will you post it or send me a personal message? Thanx.
 
AAStew said:
TWAnr
Where did those posts come from? Are they from they APFA website? I can't locate the forums on there any longer or if it is another will you post it or send me a personal message? Thanx.
I know that the post that starts "The hypocrisy of George Price never seizes (sic) to amaze me..." is by Sam Morales. He posted the same thing on more than one forum.

My 3 cents (hey, I'm old. I'm allowed to put in an additional 1 cent)...

Whether a person "registers to vote" the year before the election or on the last day to qualify, the person has a right to vote.

As I understand it, all of the unopened ballots were deemed to be valid (which would include whether or not the f/as were dues current) by APFA's legal counsel. The problem with not opening and counting them at the EC meeting was because JW was already gone to D.C. for the fly-in; so, Ted Bedwell and Cheryl Walters got up and left the room to prevent a quorum that could vote on the resolution to open and count the ballots.
 
The real issue here is not whether TWA people should have sent in membership applications immediately on receiving their welcome packets. The issue is, did they send them in and pay their dues by the deadline necessary to vote in the election.

MK
 
First off " For the record", I dont have any replies, nor do I care about George Price, or his opinion. I only posted this to show those on this message board and the rest of the world just how screwed up this whole " so called" union is. I am a Naative!! and furloughed...Why would I support George Price...Personally, I think he is full of S***t....I am the collateral ( Excuse SP ) damage Jim has so often quoted on this board correct, eventhough, I sometimes don't want to agree with him,...I respect his opinion... I have a personal letter from Arpey" TODAY" saying he is sorry for what has happened to me, and the rest of those of us furloughed... All I am doing is passing along information I have been given....Do with it what you want! Arpey states, and I quote " We have an overage of flight attendants right now " and I agree now there really might be an overage of F/A's thanks to ORD depeaking by the FAA and rising fuel prices. ( At least he told the TRUTH! )..... I don't blame AA, nor do I blame Management, nor do I blame tracking , scheduling etc....for the situation I am in..I blame my " So called Union" for what they have done to me and my colleagues... I wasn't even given a choice but to join the APFA Or be fired from my job. So much for that Bull Sh*T....Has anyone seen the dues arrear list lately...THey ( The APFA) took my money, and when it came to saving my job , like they are paid to do, or save their own "pay" and "security/seniority" They chose "themselves "over their own colleagues. Doesn't anyone on here see the personal bias...These same "union" memebers are also Line holders at AA. Most of which, have well over 10 y ears seniority. WHy should they give a Sh*t about those junior to them... Think ABout it!! If I sound upeset, and testy about it "AAStew" I have every right!!!! THats why the court cases are filed, and I pray some sort of justice will prevail...If TWA gets their seniority" So be it " I am NOT in any worse situation than I am in now....For those of you on the line who constatantly Bitc*" about thier jobs...All I can say is "Wish you were in my shoes right now..I miss flying....I miss the 2AM Phone calls to report to MIA...I have a stellar record that can be verified with the company....I have letters thanking me personally for saving their 4 year old childs life in flight....I have letters from This " So called" Union thanking me for standing up against the guy trying to get into the cockpit....Instead, I report to my same job for 3Times as less than I was making at AA in order to put food on the table for my 2 kids, and my wife...Yet, I am 1 1/2 yrs from completing my Law Degree. Yes, I am bitter, Yes, I was told I would get a great life here at AA, and look where I am now....So before anyone here on this board even considers to complain about their job and what's happening....Remember.......It really can be Worse!!!..
I remeber vividly one of the last trips I flew at AA out of MIA on the 763 when the #3 told me DIRECTLY to my face..." You Deserve to be Furloughed " I was there when it happend at Eastern and in order for us to have the life we were told we would have at AA..." We don't need you ".....Personally, I hope that "Bitc*" has quit or gets out of the way....That's EXACTLY the attitude when I say that the F/A's at AA are Selfish and don't give a Sh*T.


Good Luck to those who really care,

What Untiy?
 
Flyboy, to have another f/a say to you that you deserve to be furloughed is the lowest of the lowest. I feel for you what I feel for my co-workers also, do not despair, there is a reason for everything. You will be back way before I will, have faith. We might disagree on certain things and I may be a parasite to you, but believe it or not you are also in my prayers. Everything will turn out just fine, if not for me at least for you. Good luck.
 
Flyboy4u said:
First off " For the record", I dont have any replies, nor do I care about George Price, or his opinion. I only posted this to show those on this message board and the rest of the world just how screwed up this whole " so called" union is. I am a Naative!! and furloughed...Why would I support George Price...Personally, I think he is full of S***t....I am the collateral ( Excuse SP ) damage Jim has so often quoted on this board correct, eventhough, I sometimes don't want to agree with him,...I respect his opinion... I have a personal letter from Arpey" TODAY" saying he is sorry for what has happened to me, and the rest of those of us furloughed... All I am doing is passing along information I have been given....Do with it what you want! Arpey states, and I quote " We have an overage of flight attendants right now " and I agree now there really might be an overage of F/A's thanks to ORD depeaking by the FAA and rising fuel prices. ( At least he told the TRUTH! )..... I don't blame AA, nor do I blame Management, nor do I blame tracking , scheduling etc....for the situation I am in..I blame my " So called Union" for what they have done to me and my colleagues... I wasn't even given a choice but to join the APFA Or be fired from my job. So much for that Bull Sh*T....Has anyone seen the dues arrear list lately...THey ( The APFA) took my money, and when it came to saving my job , like they are paid to do, or save their own "pay" and "security/seniority" They chose "themselves "over their own colleagues. Doesn't anyone on here see the personal bias...These same "union" memebers are also Line holders at AA. Most of which, have well over 10 y ears seniority. WHy should they give a Sh*t about those junior to them... Think ABout it!! If I sound upeset, and testy about it "AAStew" I have every right!!!! THats why the court cases are filed, and I pray some sort of justice will prevail...If TWA gets their seniority" So be it " I am NOT in any worse situation than I am in now....For those of you on the line who constatantly Bitc*" about thier jobs...All I can say is "Wish you were in my shoes right now..I miss flying....I miss the 2AM Phone calls to report to MIA...I have a stellar record that can be verified with the company....I have letters thanking me personally for saving their 4 year old childs life in flight....I have letters from This " So called" Union thanking me for standing up against the guy trying to get into the cockpit....Instead, I report to my same job for 3Times as less than I was making at AA in order to put food on the table for my 2 kids, and my wife...Yet, I am 1 1/2 yrs from completing my Law Degree. Yes, I am bitter, Yes, I was told I would get a great life here at AA, and look where I am now....So before anyone here on this board even considers to complain about their job and what's happening....Remember.......It really can be Worse!!!..
I remeber vividly one of the last trips I flew at AA out of MIA on the 763 when the #3 told me DIRECTLY to my face..." You Deserve to be Furloughed " I was there when it happend at Eastern and in order for us to have the life we were told we would have at AA..." We don't need you ".....Personally, I hope that "Bitc*" has quit or gets out of the way....That's EXACTLY the attitude when I say that the F/A's at AA are Selfish and don't give a Sh*T.


Good Luck to those who really care,

What Untiy?
Flyboy, with all do respect. Knock it off.. The union is going through some difficult transition right now but with out APFA you would have been furloughed long ago and probably with out any recall rights. We do have our problems but its about working together for the betterment of the whole not just the most junior. Hang in there and be patient. Most guesses are that a few recalls will happen at the latest in JAN 05. maybe earlier. And if all the AA flight attendants are so bad then why are you so anxious to come back. No one should wish anyone bad but your response is as immature as the one that offended you.
 
Again Miaami with posts like this one you are just as low class as the F/A who told me I should be furloughed....It would't even surprise me if that F/A is you....You have NO Right to tell me to knock it off....I have Every Right to shed my opinion....So get a life and go back to you little warped reality of AA!


What Unity?
 
MiAAmi said:
" you would have been furloughed long ago and probably with out any recall rights. We do have our problems but its about working together for the betterment of the whole not just the most junior.
That is not correct - things could have been done "FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE WHOLE" with this last RPA - No One should have been furloughed - instead they made sure that the senior people got it all - and the junior were put to the street. So your statement is very offensive.
 
jsn25911 said:
That is not correct - things could have been done "FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE WHOLE" with this last RPA - No One should have been furloughed - instead they made sure that the senior people got it all - and the junior were put to the street. So your statement is very offensive.
We've gone over this and over this. And I posted several weeks ago I was going to stay away from Union threads so I will bow out on that arguement. Is telling someone to stop their whinning and be patient really stooping to their level? Sorry if thats offensive. My point is that we all joined this company not knowing what the outcome would be. Its a job! And if you continually bash everyone else for your own choices you'll get no where. If Flyboy is in limbo with what to do right now I would say stay away from places where you feel there is no unity and that your coworkers are all selfish b%$#@'s. If this is his attitude going in, I can only imagine how nice it would be to work with him.