What Do You Want An Assn To Do For You

Heli Ops

Mar 9, 2003
I thought it might be a good idea to start another thread outlining what potential members actually want the proposed assn to achieve for them. The other thread is all about actually wanting an assn so rather than get the two mixed up how about making your wants known. Here are a few from me:

* Increasing media awareness of the positive side of the helicopter industry and what they do to serve their communities.

* Create a one stop job shop that students can check with to see whats available at any given time.

* Maybe accreditation for schools in regards to training standards, that way students know if they go to a specific school that they are up to scratch.

These are only a few suggestions and there are many more that you who live and work in Canada can post. This also gives the potential management an idea on what to work on.

Heli Ops
Bring some parody to the industry operators through standards compliance which should in turn disable shady operators and ultimately bring industry rates in line with reality. I expect that the reputable operators might welcome this result.
Who would set the" standards" and could they possibly be enforced?

:elvis: :elvis:
Heli Ops said:
* Maybe accreditation for schools in regards to training standards, that way students know if they go to a specific school that they are up to scratch.
would be nice if they could some how control the puppy mill situation . cant say I agree with that part of our industry. I heard it to be a 40% hire ratio. not sure how we compare to other countries.

1. The membership

2. I don't know but the operators would certainly have to want to comply so a little imagination (and a couple of beers) might come up with something intelligent and productive.

any other suggestions?
100FT ;I find it hard to believe that the same standards could be applied to one or two machine operator with a few employes, and the mega operators with hundreds of A/C and hundreds of employes.

:elvis: :elvis:
Good point Elvis.
Still, it seems to me that TC often applies standards to the helicopter business that are far more appropriate to the airlines, but we all still find a way to keep on operating.

An Association may be able to make recommendations that most of the operators will adopt. However, as you point out, an Association cannot actually make enforceable rules.

After reading the sad tale in the latest Helicopters mag of the girl who got taken by an operator this summer I would like to see an Association that would be able to have some recommended guidlines for those who are trying to break into the industry.

Along with that could go recommended rates for contracts and perhaps even a standard contract format. This may make it easier for those who are entering into contracts to ensure that get their contract in writing and, possibly more importantly, in a legally accepted form.

I would also like to see an association that works closely with the regulatory bodies to further the industry standards in both safety and employee realtions.

Also, I would like to see the Association as a place for a member to turn to when things do not turn out the way they had expected. Whether that be an employment contract gone wrong or an accident or incident that the member needs some help and support regarding.

I am sure there are many more things that the Association could do for us all.
"would be nice if they could some how control the puppy mill situation"

"Maybe accreditation for schools in regards to training standards, that way students know if they go to a specific school that they are up to scratch"

i totally agree and there ARE schools that do just that!! the potenial students need to FULLY investigate all the schools. simple questions will show them puppy mills.
- an invitation to the table when important decisions are being made that will affect our industry. Not as a mediator, but as a very interested party.

- some type publication that brings us up to speed as to what the current concerns are, as well as any interesting news regarding what the members might be up to. Who, what, where, when, etc.

- begin establishing some type of trust fund for fallen members (knock on wood).

- define what professionalism means to this industry, and then FOLLOW THE RULES! No more cutting corners because of pressure from our customers, management, or fellow pilots. This applies to the wrenches as well. Less pressure might mean fewer accidents, which could lead to lower insurance costs, which could......

- once we have the numbers approach some life insurance companies for some group quotes to try and ensure every member has adequate life insurance, and disability as well.

- the supply definately exceeds the demand at present. I would like to see the Association become the first stop for prospective helicopter students. They could then get the skinny on what is really happening in the industry at that particular time, and learn what the real chances of finding work are.

- furthermore, take the new people we currently have and begin some type of mentorship program that gives them some exposure to the actual job.

- and last but not least, out of all the potential members, 1 or 2 of us might have a creative solution that we could present to owners to try and work together in raising our rates from the embarassing depths they are at present. What owner in his right mind is not going to want to make more money?

Santa, I've been a good boy - since I woke up this morning.

- oh yeah, a once a year convention where we can all get together and let the snot fly. This is a requirement of a NPO. At this meeting, why not also have large seminars or workshops on various aspects of flying/maintenance. I would love to sit in on a presentation from some of those mountain dudes sharing some of their tricks of the trade. Same applies to IFR, vertical ref, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Get it on!! Right-you-are Ken. :up:
That's a pretty fair list of ideas already.

To follow-up my last post and tie-in to bubbleboy's post, 'money talks'. Money talks even louder than statute law to most when it comes down to it. Like I said, no matter what resolutions the assn might assert, the operators will not support them unless they want to. How would they want to? Somebody previously mentioned enhanced safety programs which are seen as win-win-win all the way around. To build on that, bubbleboy mentioned insurance. Insurance companies have a ton of discretion and leverage in this industry and always will. Though the Canadian heli industry is a relatively tiny market for the insurance industry and as such seems to lack the benefits of much competive spirit between the insurance companies at present, I think that this tendancy is due for a shift anytime now. Thus, the time may be right to sell the assn idea and ideals to one or two companies (maybe someone like park.ca for example to endorse the assn by offering discounts compamies who work with the assn.

Also, I will never support the idea of a radical striking body of blue collar yahoos with job action signage. I support intelligent productive harmony among the entire Cdn heli industry without whining and with the odd rib recipe thrown in the quarterly. Canada is set to flourish and the helicopter industry with it. I'd be nice to maximize the growth.

Just my thoughts.
How about creating some kind of apprenticeship or mentoring program for all the 100hr wonders... I.E. creating a work term. Would give operators a chance to see how genuine a new pilot is when it comes to their attitude and what kind of work ethic they have. Also gives a new pilot some hands on experience so even if they don't end up working for the operator they have a work term with... they have some real field experience. Guess this would be an add on to creating any kind of standardization of the various flying schools out there.... something that could only benefit the industry.

just a thought....
100ft/bubbleboy; Your posts have a great deal of merit, however given the great diversty of Canadian operators I can't see how it a common set of rules could be applied and be fair to all, and enforcement would be a nightmare.

Maybe I am a cynic or need more rose colouring in My glasses but I think You are pissing into the wind.

:elvis: :elvis:
Hey big "E". I thought you wore them big gold framed units with the dark tint? Rose coloring might work well with them big side burns though! ;)

I do not pretend to speak on behalf of a future Association or it's objectives, but here's what I think:

It would be unwise for an Association to become involved in any sort of "enforcement" as it would apply to owners. I can think of no quicker way to lose support of owners than to suggest to them that an Association will have a list of rules to be followed or else. In fact, the legal guidelines for an Association would prevent it from wielding that type of power. Our Directors will need to work with the owners.

Let's face it, in most (not all) cases owners and operators are our friends and should be treated as such. I believe an Association should respect the risks these people take in operating a helicopter company in the current marketplace. Equally, owners need to respect the risks and responsibilities we assume on their behalf.

What an Association should enforce is the professionalism of it's members. Let's be big enough to step up to the plate and admit that in general a professional attitude is sorely lacking. I would be a liar to suggest that I haven't had some brain farts that could have been costly if not for dumb luck. For me that is unacceptable. Once an Association adopts professionalism as one of it's goals, would it look smart not to belong to such an organization?

Elvis, we cannot force either owners or fellow pilots and engineers to play along. We can only encourage people to give this thing a try. Everybody admits that it is time to turn things around (no arguements from the people paying the bills I'm sure). This may be the catalyst. Yes, we may be pissing into the wind, but let's settle this issue once and for all rather than speculating ad nauseum about the pros and cons of an Association.

BTW what's the secret to a good deep-fried peanut butter and banana sandwhich?
Bubbleboy what's the point of setting up an aassociation if the operators ( the people who employ us) are not required to "play along"

AS for the PB & bananas receipe it is a top secret.

:elvis: :elvis: :elvis: